DogMan 2,343 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 First, for all the "search" Nazis out there, I have tried. I haven't been able to find anything clear on what the parts count is for the Vepr 12. Is it the same as the Saiga 12? And even then, my eyes quickly glaze over when trying to add and subtract the right number of parts, and which parts are applicable. I think I understand that in order to use Russian 8 rd mags I have to change 5 parts to U.S. made. But....here's where I'm trying to get to if there is any way possible: I would like use "Russian": SVDS stock, 8 rd mags, wood furniture. So obviously no help there on US parts. I can change the trigger group, gas puck, and muzzle device. What else can I change out to be compliant? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 26, 2013 Report Share Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) As far as I know Dogman, the parts your changing out for compliance would be about all you can change out, as there is no more parts that are US made that Im aware of. Edited January 26, 2013 by Captain Hero 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aeromat209 24 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 The mag is counted as 3 parts and the triggergroup another 3 the gas puck and you are beyond the 5 part minimum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 The mag is counted as 3 parts and the triggergroup another 3 the gas puck and you are beyond the 5 part minimum! I want to use Molot 8 round mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I want to use Molot 8 round mags Let me know if you find some and I'll love you forever... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nikolai Volkoff 0 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 This is what Carolina offers for sale, this is the info on their websight. I do not know how they arrive at this count with no official list from Batf. Im sure they know more than me though. In order to use high capacity magazines you need to have 5 US 922r compliant parts.-US made muzzle brake counts for 1 922r part.-US made stock counts for 1 922r part.-US made pistol grip counts for 1 922r part.-US made trigger group counts for 3 922r part.-US made gas piston puc counts for 1 922r part Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aeromat209 24 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sorry for the alchohol abused previous post I made ! Add a Hogue Ak rubberized set of handguards +2, add CSS gas puck +1, add Hogue pistol grip or Us made P grip+1, add Css copy of Russian muzzle brake +1 and you have 5 required replace the Russian trigger group and your Kool , keep the Us trigger group and you are 3 over !! YMMV!! Here are some pics of mine ! without the trigger group changed ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tactical_T 6 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 the 5 part minimum! Are you sure it's 5-parts instead of 6-parts? I remember the stamped AK's are 6-parts and milled AK's are 5-parts, so this would not surprise me..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I want to use Molot 8 round mags Let me know if you find some and I'll love you forever... Sorry, but I pounced on some from Rusmilitary a few months ago when they had them in stock. I'd hate to have to find them now. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sorry for the alchohol abused previous post I made ! Add a Hogue Ak rubberized set of handguards +2, add CSS gas puck +1, add Hogue pistol grip or Us made P grip+1, add Css copy of Russian muzzle brake +1 and you have 5 required replace the Russian trigger group and your Kool , keep the Us trigger group and you are 3 over !! YMMV!! Here are some pics of mine ! without the trigger group changed ! That's a cool looking gun and I may do something similar on my other one. On the first one though, I'm wanting to use a Russian SVDS stock, Russian wood forward grip, and of course the Russian 8 rd mags. Changing the trigger group and puck gets me 4. I could change the pistol grip for another and that's 5. If I need one more I can do the muzzle brake but......I'm not sure that counts since I'm not replacing another muzzle device. They don't count the thread protector as a muzzle device do they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Hey dog man. I think there is some disagreement out there about whether the thread protector counts. I put a tapco one on mine just in case. Also, I think there are threads in the s12 section about easily making your own floor plate for the factory 8 mags that could get you another compliant part without changing function or appearance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dad2142Dad 6,559 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think I understand that in order to use Russian 8 rd mags I have to change 5 parts to U.S. made. If your using all Russian parts, why would it matter if your using a 5 round Russian mag or an 8 round Russian mag? As long as all the parts are foreign? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighCaliber762 4 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Sorry for the alchohol abused previous post I made ! Add a Hogue Ak rubberized set of handguards +2, add CSS gas puck +1, add Hogue pistol grip or Us made P grip+1, add Css copy of Russian muzzle brake +1 and you have 5 required replace the Russian trigger group and your Kool , keep the Us trigger group and you are 3 over !! YMMV!! Here are some pics of mine ! without the trigger group changed ! My understanding of 922r is that only the lower handguard/ forearm counts, not both. I think I understand that in order to use Russian 8 rd mags I have to change 5 parts to U.S. made. If your using all Russian parts, why would it matter if your using a 5 round Russian mag or an 8 round Russian mag? As long as all the parts are foreign? The 8 round "high capacity assault clip" (stupid idiots) makes the firearm non-sporting. Again, my understanding is that the ATF considers any shotgun with more than 5 rounds of magazine capacity to be non-sporting. So yes, he would have to change out enough parts to get to the no more than 10 imported parts threshold. Is there an ATF letter on the Vepr12 to put all this to bed once and for all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 There is no letter, and little reason to ask for one. A thread protector is not a muzzle device. Make a floor plate or use us springs in the mag, as suggested. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NightmareArmory 6 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Quick Question: If you're using only 5 round factory magazines does the "U.S. Parts" rule still apply? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in a state with a 10 round max capacity magazine law and so far I haven't even been able to purchase an 8 or 10 round magazine. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Quick Question:If you're using only 5 round factory magazines does the "U.S. Parts" rule still apply? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in a state with a 10 round max capacity magazine law and so far I haven't even been able to purchase an 8 or 10 round magazine. Thanks 922 will only kick in if you run mags above 5 rds. But since there is not ruling on these shotguns, Id look at the maximum number of counted parts for the S12, and go from there. They should be identical, as they have the same number of counted parts. 5 parts is all you need to swap to make your weapon compliant with 922r. Its a stupid fucking law and shouldnt exist, but it does. And the handguard counts as 1 part, even though there are two. Same with rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thor's Hammer 33 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I believe that 922r will kick in with just a folder or collapseable stock regardless of a 5rd limited mag. Anyone that knows different feel free to make a correction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randyf 35 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 There is no letter, and little reason to ask for one. A thread protector is not a muzzle device. Make a floor plate or use us springs in the mag, as suggested. I don't think springs count. This check list if for AK builds but will apply to S-12's and Vepr-12's for the most part: http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance MD Arms makes a reasonably close copy of the Veopr-12 pistol grip for those wanting to stay with an original look. Also the follower from an SGM magazine has worked fine in my 8 round Molot mags, so you can pick up a part with that. Quick Question:If you're using only 5 round factory magazines does the "U.S. Parts" rule still apply? The reason I'm asking is that I'm in a state with a 10 round max capacity magazine law and so far I haven't even been able to purchase an 8 or 10 round magazine. Thanks 922 will only kick in if you run mags above 5 rds. But since there is not ruling on these shotguns, Id look at the maximum number of counted parts for the S12, and go from there. They should be identical, as they have the same number of counted parts. 5 parts is all you need to swap to make your weapon compliant with 922r. Its a stupid fucking law and shouldnt exist, but it does. And the handguard counts as 1 part, even though there are two. Same with rifles. Or do anything else to bring it out of a sporting configuration, such as a folding stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I think it kicks in if you have a folder, collapsible stock, and/or pistol grip AND you run high cap mags. I always thought the mag capacity was the key once you add an "evil" feature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 Yeah I forgot about the folding/collapsable stocks. I dont run one just yet wich is why I forgot about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bcrider 68 Posted January 27, 2013 Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm pretty sure that is why they can be imported already converted because you can run the 5 rounds without worrying about 922. Once you use a mag greater than 5 rounds, 922 kicks in. Same with the Akdal. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted January 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 27, 2013 I'm looking at these floor plates and it's so simple I think I could fabricate something that will work, but seeing as how this is a valuable compliance part I don't know why one of our properly equipped enterprising vendors hasn't mass produced a whole bunch of these and passed them out for 5 bucks apiece until their fingers bleed. I'd be in for a dozen right now. Cough..Cameron Hadley..Cough Cough. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
randyf 35 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I'm pretty sure that is why they can be imported already converted because you can run the 5 rounds without worrying about 922. Once you use a mag greater than 5 rounds, 922 kicks in. Same with the Akdal. I keep forgetting about the recent change in definitions for shotguns.....hell it's all so damned stupid who can make sense of it anyway 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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