hochst04 7 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 i understand how this auto plug works. my question is since the plug vents off the gas it dont need does this reduce the recoil. so if u mix a mag with different shells bird shot slugs 00 buck etc. can you tell which shells you just shot? im question pretty much is how is the recoil changed after you shoot hot load when its dailed in for target loads. thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Yes and no. The standard plug works in steps shells that are at the top of the step slam the bolt back harder which you feel, shells at the bottom of the step are just barely cycling the bolt, which you don't feel much. The auto plug gives a more uniform amount of power to the bolt from each shell so that there is more consistent force on the bolt. this is a minor component of the perceived recoil, but it might make a difference in what you feel with some shells and little to none with others. If you want to deal with recoil, get a good butt pad, then think about a muzzle brake compensator. Mercury tubes or springy stocks are also options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 It does not reduce perceived recoil. Also, keep in mind that the AP is recommended for use with ONLY 2 3/4" shells. That said... I LOVE MINE! ^^^^^ GunFun has it right! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big John! 2,062 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 It does not reduce perceived recoil. Also, keep in mind that the AP is recommended for use with ONLY 2 3/4" shells. That said... I LOVE MINE! ^^^^^ GunFun has it right! Seriously??? That sucks! Maybe mine will stay on the shelf where it's at now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 It does not reduce perceived recoil. Also, keep in mind that the AP is recommended for use with ONLY 2 3/4" shells. That said... I LOVE MINE! ^^^^^ GunFun has it right! Seriously??? That sucks! Maybe mine will stay on the shelf where it's at now. I can't think of much I can kill with 3" shells I can't kill with 2 3/4". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Turning it upside down is about the same as "off" on MD plug. Mine will fire Winchester brand 3" shells just fine like that. Rems will cycle about half the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Do tell... Do you mean to say that it can be notched for another setting so as to knock the gas down for a range of 3"?!? Very interesting. Makes sense. Who wants to hack theirs first for the title of "Innovator"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) It could be notched. I haven't done so yet. I've just tried it as it came from texas. There is plainly enough meat there to scoop out a opening as large as the bigger scoops on a gunfixxer clone such as MD plug. I think the shallowest groove you could do would likely work well with any 3" that is a little too hot for the "auto" setting. It is actually surprising to me that Tac 47 didn't do that in the first place. I'll hack mine some time soon, but there really isn't any risk that I can see to do a very shallow slot or flat. It probably wouldn't need more than a 1/16" off the null side to run all the major 3". That and a little nick in the shoulder to index. I think I have passed the warranty period anyway. Obviously anything that wouldn't cycle on the 3" groove would be appropriate to run on the automatic mode. Edited January 29, 2013 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 That's a really great idea, Gunfun! As soon as I can get my mill tooled up, I'll be taking a few hundredths off the face of my Auto Plug for clearances with my CSS Puc anyway. It will be a while before I can do it as I'm broke, and even cheap mill tooling is expensive at startup. I wonder what the "Winchester Universal" of 3" shells would be... Do you think a setting at 90 degrees from original setting and another at 180 might be the ticket for lower and higher impulse 3"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 (edited) I'd like to see how you make it look. I would have done a crude low tech groove or flat with a grinder to the area 180* from the auto cutout. Grinding a flat seems the simplest. Since it already runs some 3" that way, I would recommend starting with a very shallow relief maybe 1/16" going back to about the area the hole in the gas block starts. you can always enlarge until Rem 15 pellet OOB as bought at wallmart 15 packs ejects about 3' I don't know what the crappy 3" ammo is, but if it is very weak 3" it may actually be suitably low pressure to use in the auto mode. Plenty of 3" ammo is actually within 2 3/4" magnum pressure and load levels. I've heard it said that S&B 15 pellet OOB is on the soft side of 3" mag, and that sounds about right from my memory. It definitely shouldn't be run on setting #2 of stock plug. That might be a good choice for your trial load. It isn't bad ammo, but it lacks a shotcup and has little support to the hull so it is susceptible to hull deformation over long term storage. It looks pretty cool with the clear hull and big chunks of lead though. Edit. I just realized my response didn't directly answer your question. I see no harm in doing one at 90* and another at 180* but I think if it is "low Impulse 3", then you may as well run it on the auto setting. More choices can be good. Make it look nice, and maybe they will incorporate it into gen 2. Another way might be to choose a 15 pellet load that runs at a lower velocity. Look up whatever Rem 15 pellet OOB runs at and find a load that runs 100-200 FPS slower. IIRC standard 9 pellet OOB is usually 1325 and 15 pellet is 1275FPS. I've had a couple designs for a poppet valve that opens progressively in two stages that could theoretically deal with 3" on auto only, but that takes R&d to tune it and verify. Edited January 30, 2013 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdpete 6 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 What an excellent idea GunFun. Maybe the manufacturer will incorporate that idea into future productions runs. It sure would make it a very versatile plug. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 I've been planning to do that since before I even got one. I've had it over a year now, so I really don't have a good excuse for not having done so yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted January 30, 2013 Report Share Posted January 30, 2013 It sure would make it a very versatile plug. I believe you mean, "It sure will make it a more gooder plug." Gunfun, I agree with what you said about how to go about it. I just thought it might need two new positions instead of just one in order to deal with the wide range of 3" shells. Unfortunately, it will be a while before I am tooled-up. I wonder if lower velocity steel loads might be the lowest pressure loads... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zombiehunter762 376 Posted February 2, 2013 Report Share Posted February 2, 2013 I just got a Auto-Plug for my 8". But haven't had the time to shoot it yet. I've been thinking of a Tromix Mini Monster Brake to help with recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danklab 57 Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I've been wanting a damn autoplug for such a long time. I'm thinking I might go ahead and get one now, since I can't find ammo/mags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 It sure would make it a very versatile plug. I believe you mean, "It sure will make it a more gooder plug." Gunfun, I agree with what you said about how to go about it. I just thought it might need two new positions instead of just one in order to deal with the wide range of 3" shells. Unfortunately, it will be a while before I am tooled-up. I wonder if lower velocity steel loads might be the lowest pressure loads... I don't think "lowest" is the right way to go. Lowest 12 ga is probably going to be a bean bag. Think 'lowest worth bothering with.' Or lowest that won't leave you over gassed with max 3" loads. The "3 dram equivalent" is generally considered to be the lowest power load you can tune your gun reliably run without compromising on the upper end. Crappy Win universal 1 1/8 oz 1200 FPS or the same numbers in federal game or top gun load are a good baseline, rem gun club of the same numbers too. I think your best bet is to get these known loads and use them to test, rather than introduce some more unknowns to your testing. If you really cannot use shot or find a place that will let you, here are some numbers that should help you find a baseline load based off of claimed velocity: this equates to 1 1/8 oz shot or slug moving at 1200 FPS or 1 oz at 1235. My tables don't give an equivalent velocity for 7/8 oz 12 ga loads, but in 16 ga the velocity would be 1310, and in 20 it is 1320, so a 7/8 oz 12 ga slug of similar power to the baseline birdshot is going to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1300 FPS. (to detractors- yes, I know the flaws in this system, but it does give you a pretty good idea of where to start) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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