1st Time out Range Report

[MAKAK47 21]

Literally just got back from shooting my VEPR-12, here's what I'm going to say about it... IT FUCKING ROCKS.
This thing was cycling all the cheap federal shells I could throw through it using the factory magazines. Basically everything 1295 fps or faster cycled perfectly using the factory magazines. I knew to stay away from Winchester bulk ammo, my buddy brought some out, and his pump was having a hard time cycling it, god forbid I try that in my Vepr.

 

Here's where I had issues:
-SGM Magazines did not function as well as I hoped they would, lots of FTE and FTF, but I wasn't too bothered by that since I knew going into shooting that I was probably going to have that happen, I shot Rio Game Load 7.5 shot, 1330 FPS through them first and only had one fail to feed through both magazines, maybe it was because I loaded 13 in one magazine accidentally... I dunno, but I was having problems right off the bat loading the magazine. Any Federal 1295 fps shells I was using cycled HORRIBLY (can't classify it as cycling really).
-Bolt hold open didn't function 100%, I mean it still worked fine but not everytime, but also knew that was going to happen going into it
-Got my muzzle brake from CSS today (the GK-01 clone) and I don't have a case big enough for the gun until my folding stock arrives from bonesteel
-My beardo fogged up my eyepro at times during heavy shooting
-Buddy forgot his clay pigeon launcher.... was stuck shooting crap on the range

All in all, I'm EXTREMELY happy with my new shotty and I am going to be looking forward to SGM putting out a better version of their magazine and the possibility of Russian 8 round shotgun magazines coming back.

[Muffman 54]

Sounds like a good first outing!! Did you actually use the CSS brake today?

[MAKAK47 21]

yes, I was heading out to the range and went to check my mail, sure as shit it was in there so I attached it and headed off to the range

[Muffman 54]

I bring it up because someone else had problems with lower recoil shells while running a CSS brake. They tried again without the brake and had better results. When testing a firearm you want to eliminate as many variables as possible. Next time you shoot you should run the shells you were having problems with again with no brake and see if you notice a difference in reliability on light loads.

[Aries144 10]

Glad you had fun man! These things are the most fun shotguns I've ever had the pleasure of shooting- when they work right.

ETA: the SGM chokes are awesome! Just using the Modified choke seemed to change the spread from about 1' at 10 yards to just 3-4". I was only shooting the ground with Estate 7 1/2 shot for a function test, but the difference was very noticeable. I can't wait to pattern it this weekend.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Aries144

[MAKAK47 21]

Muffman, the only time I was having trouble with shells was when I was using the SGM magazines. When I shot the federal 7.5 and 8 shots at 1295fps through my Vepr, it just gobbled that shit up like it was nothing! Very excited to know mine works well with the brake on and the light loads. I'm thinking of picking up a pack of chokes for hunting. Do they make a 2 round magazine for this?

[MAKAK47 21]

Question: Is the brake supposed to be canted a little off? I've got the barrel nut on there and with all my force and might it doesn't end up being completely square with the front sight, it is slightly canted, is that right or wrong? Do I need to get something and tug that shit on tighter?

Edited February 2, 2013 by MAKAK47

[Aries144 10]

At least with AKs, a lot of times the threads aren't concentric with the bore. Sometimes stuff is canted one way or another. As long as you aren't getting strikes in the brake or trying to mount a sound suppressor, you'll be fine.

I haven't seen a 2 round mag, but it shouldn't be too difficult to make a "plug" for it to block a 5 round mag to hold only 2.

[Muffman 54]

I have seen a Molot 2 round magazine. I'm not sure if it was from the factory, or the vendor just chopped it down. I plan on making a 2 round magazine at some point for skeet shooting.

[DresNightfire 39]

I tried the bulk pack 1200 fps 1 1/8 oz target loads from Winchester and Federal this morning at the range, it cycled 70% of the time. There was only one scenario where the Winchester cycled flawlessly in both 8-round izzy and 5-round molot mags. Moving my optic behind the ejection port fixed the problem of the top cover popping off by itself, but still had frequent FTE's.

 

My setup was:

Original Saiga 12 recoil spring

CSS GK-01 Brake

Primary Arms Micro Red Dot mounted on rear

 

Thanks for the 1295 fps preference, I'll keep that in mind when purchasing my next set of ammo. I love being able to find ammo on the shelf for our VEPR 12's during these hard times.

[Muffman 54]

I tried the bulk pack 1200 fps 1 1/8 oz target loads from Winchester and Federal this morning at the range, it cycled 70% of the time. There was only one scenario where the Winchester cycled flawlessly in both 8-round izzy and 5-round molot mags. Moving my optic behind the ejection port fixed the problem of the top cover popping off by itself, but still had frequent FTE's.

 

My setup was:

Original Saiga 12 recoil spring

CSS GK-01 Brake

Primary Arms Micro Red Dot mounted on rear

 

Thanks for the 1295 fps preference, I'll keep that in mind when purchasing my next set of ammo. I love being able to find ammo on the shelf for our VEPR 12's during these hard times.

Did you try running without the brake? The brake might cause problems with low FPS shells. Probably not, but worth trying.

[MAKAK47 21]

I don't know how the brake would hamper cycling... that just doesn't seem to make sense. The only reason I was having a hard time cycling Federal was because I put them in the SGM magazines

[Muffman 54]

I brought it up because another member on the forum stated they had problems till they removed a brake. I could how it could be possible. Muzzle devices can impact the amount of gas in the system. A perfect example would be the purpose of cone muzzle devices on Krinkovs to help them cycle reliability. I could be wrong, but like I said someone else on here stated it as there experience so I've been bugging people about it to either prove or disprove it.

[obiwanbonjovi 337]

A muzzle brake should increase, rather than decrease reliability. There are 3 factors in a brake that can increase reliability, First is the recoil reduction, the brake will reduce the rearward motion of the shotgun, the less the shotgun moves rearward,the less force is required for the carrier to complete its rearward travel in relation to the shotgun. Second the weight, the weight adds to the inertia of the shotgun, and therefore also decreases rearward motion of the shotgun during recoil. Third is the gas, although usually insignificant a brake will almost always increase pressure, I can think of no examples that would decrease pressure.

.

[Muffman 54]

Thanks for chiming in ObiWan. Makes sense. I've been bugging people about the brake just to see if this post:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/82674-veper-12-lemon-or-pos-weapon/?p=856890

 

could imply something with brakes and the Vepr 12, or if just coincidence.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Thats odd that yours wouldnt cycle the cheap winchester. Mine eats all of it that Ive tried. I still have 2 SGM 12's that I havent tried yet. One of the 3 I have is flawless so far. For your bolt hold open, check your grip. I'll bet your finger was in the way of the lever, not allowing it to work. Ive done it before and still do from time to time. It doesnt take much force at all to keep that from not holding the bolt back.

[MAKAK47 21]

Thats odd that yours wouldnt cycle the cheap winchester. Mine eats all of it that Ive tried. I still have 2 SGM 12's that I havent tried yet. One of the 3 I have is flawless so far. For your bolt hold open, check your grip. I'll bet your finger was in the way of the lever, not allowing it to work. Ive done it before and still do from time to time. It doesnt take much force at all to keep that from not holding the bolt back.

 

I went back to the range today and shot Federal Game loads 8 shot and 7.5 shot at 1290 FPS (I was incorrectly stating it was 1295 FPS, my bad) and had ZERO malfunctions, however I did not use the SGM magazines. I cannot recommend enough the Federal Game load shots, it was the same price for me to buy 100 shells as it was to buy the Winchester target loads, so I ended up getting 9 boxes, hopefully I get to go shoot it tomorrow.

 

I also did not have any bolt hold open issues today. I am wearing heavy gloves for the cold, so I'm pretty sure you're right Captain Hero that I probably was accidentally hitting the bolt release with my big ass gloves.

[thebuns1 4,323]

I was unaware of the ability to do that with my trigger finger until it was pointed out to me by Sergii. I thought it was doing it on its own as well. And gloves will def. make it that much easier to do so. Glad you like your shottie! I fucking love mine.

[jackb804 0]

Hey, I'm new here, but just came back from shooting my new vepr 12 with Remmington gun club targer loads 8's and don't recommend them. Gas system fouled after 20 rounds. Wasted time cleaning gun while frends kept shooting. Embarrising show for vepr but loved the rapid shots while it lasted.

 

:-)

[MAKAK47 21]

nice to meet you

What do you mean exactly that the gas system fouled?

[solrus 2]

A muzzle brake should increase, rather than decrease reliability. There are 3 factors in a brake that can increase reliability, First is the recoil reduction, the brake will reduce the rearward motion of the shotgun, the less the shotgun moves rearward,the less force is required for the carrier to complete its rearward travel in relation to the shotgun. Second the weight, the weight adds to the inertia of the shotgun, and therefore also decreases rearward motion of the shotgun during recoil. Third is the gas, although usually insignificant a brake will almost always increase pressure, I can think of no examples that would decrease pressure.

.

I had a problem with CSS clone brake, it looked awesome but gave me grief every shot FTE, i tried without brake and put only 10 rounds with 1 FTE. I am going to research more closely this weekend and shoot 100-200 rounds will try to make video and post it on youtube.

[solrus 2]

who knows how long is the original buttstock? i want to decided should i buy warsaw vs nato from bonesteel

[jackb804 0]

When i said the gas system fouled, it failed to reset the trigger and when I pulled it apart to find out why, the gas piston was full of junk from bad powder and caused the non reset of the trigger, cleaned it and it worked again.

[DresNightfire 39]

When i said the gas system fouled, it failed to reset the trigger and when I pulled it apart to find out why, the gas piston was full of junk from bad powder and caused the non reset of the trigger, cleaned it and it worked again.

 

I've actually experience this a few times in the past - failing to reset the trigger, but I'm upgrading my trigger wednesday so I'll report back when it's in and tested.

[vette447 11]

When i said the gas system fouled, it failed to reset the trigger and when I pulled it apart to find out why, the gas piston was full of junk from bad powder and caused the non reset of the trigger, cleaned it and it worked again.

 

I've actually experience this a few times in the past - failing to reset the trigger, but I'm upgrading my trigger wednesday so I'll report back when it's in and tested.

 

 

What trigger kit are using using for your upgrade?

[solrus 2]

Ok guys , finally got time to shoot vepr 12 with and without brake. As I told previously , I placed brake right away and had FTE every round. Spoke to a seller Match 1 Arsenal and the guy told me that they tested no FTEs but they broke in gun with 500 rnds, I did not want to waste 500 rnds, it's expensive also.

 

So I took of brake and shot 2 boxes (50 rnds) , occasional FTEs, but later towards 2nd box my trigger began stuck in semi return postion, you will hear "click " sound when I push it back with index finger on video with CSS brake.

 

Here is the link: 1. With out brake (no problems, but after I stopped filming and shot second box trigger gave me a puzzle) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0phbg6pXSg

2. With CSS brake , trigger just fail to return to ready position. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfib5BnMrnM

 

Kinda disappointing, although it serial production, not custom, but nevertheless looks like Molot factory was rushing to make them with poor quality check and push to USA market. Back in Russia Chinese goods are so so quality compare to USA, but my Vepr is even worse then with a stamp "Made in China".

[solrus 2]

As I stated earlier : "Nothing to trigger, I had FTEs initially , after I shot a box without a brake and then put back brake FTE's dissapeared. But I shot only 10 shots on video each with and without. For more power of the study I need larger number of trials.

My plan to dissemble , clean and retry again, I hope everything will resolve (trigger malfunction, FTEs. "

 

So now I clean it and this is my third trip and these videos tell you what I had with my first out of box Vepr 12

 

1. With a brake different type/brand of ammo

- A - http://youtu.be/HJIsmAu3KjU

- B- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYkxSJw-gX0

 

2. Without brake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nl0DE77YNA

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yr2coCO1AA

 

 

3. Without brake with buckshot low recoil shots

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqwJ57NmbDI