Savings from Reloading?

[lZl Jody lZl 1]

I am researching the cost of 20 gauge buckshot and slugs vs reloading. A pound (~450 grams) of Hodgdon HS-6 at Precision Reloading is 21 dollars plus 35 dollars for the hazmat fee. This will make 22 shells @ ~20 grams per shell according to their datasheet. 25 buckshot or slug shells is about 25 dollars so what am I doing wrong?

 

Edit: I may have made a noob mistake and confused grains with grams in the reloading datasheets. That would have made a big difference in the number of shells that can be reloaded with one pound of powder. hehe

Edited February 3, 2013 by lZl Jody lZl

[psl sniper 963]

go to a local store and buy there. the problem with buying powder online is the hazmat fee. some of your larger stores buy in bulk so the hazmat fee is nill. for example when i buy powder i usually go to sportsman warehouse i can buy a pound of powder for 20.00. no hazmat fee . or get a few people together to buy in bulk. otherwise that hazmat fee is gonna eat you up.

[IndyArms 10,186]

by the time you figure in the cost of the press, powder, primers, hulls, wads , equipment to reload... ( scales, holders, this, that, the other thing, etc..etc...) you will NEVER break even... you will spend WAY more than if you just buy he stuff outright. However... if you want guaranteed quality, CONSISTENT loads for any firearm you shoot... and ENJOY THE HOBBY of reloading... then ENJOY the HOBBY of reloading!!!

 

[lZl Jody lZl 1]

Thanks for the feedback fellas.

 

by the time you figure in the cost of the press, powder, primers, hulls, wads , equipment to reload... ( scales, holders, this, that, the other thing, etc..etc...) you will NEVER break even... you will spend WAY more than if you just buy he stuff outright. However... if you want guaranteed quality, CONSISTENT loads for any firearm you shoot... and ENJOY THE HOBBY of reloading... then ENJOY the HOBBY of reloading!!!

 

That's exactly what I was seeing after adding a Lee Load-All press, 250 wads, 1000 primers and 5 lbs of 000 buckshot to the cart. I don't know enough about the craft to enjoy it yet and I'm definitely going to take my time learning since there is little advantage price wise at the moment. That could easily change which is another motivator to get into reloading. Do you melt down your own lead too and if so, what are some good sources of information?

[psl sniper 963]

also, you worry less about ammo disappearing off the shelves. i do however have to disagree with indy deals can be had on supplies. shop around, look around, and anything you can do yourself do. i started casting all my bullets, and buckshot. also alot of gunstores have wads and components that people dump when they get tired of loading .i have more wads then i will probably use in my life, thanks to someone dumping several bags on me.

 

but if you buy everything new, then yeah it will add up.

[IndyArms 10,186]

i do however have to disagree with indy deals can be had on supplies

 

He disagrees, because he doesnt reload enough...

 

The last time I bought reloading supplies I dropped 5 bills. I got 13 pounds of powder, 350 bullets ( jut the tips, not LOADED ammo) and another thousand primers.

 

13 pounds of powder ( appx. 210 bucks ) is enough to load around 3600 rounds of 223. a thousand primers is almost 30 bucks... I needed 3 more thousand, to equalize the powder to loaded ammo ratio, and then I would have to spend another 750 dollars more to PURCHASE the appropriate number of BULLETS to load said 3600 rounds... we are not even TALKING brass... figure 25 bucks a hundred *IF* you can FIND ANY!!! That's 900 more dollars JUST IN BRASS!!!! We are up to almost 2000 dollars to load 3600 rounds of 55gn FMJ in .223... cheaper than buying it NOWADAYS... sure... but not by a hell of a lot when you figure TIME...

 

I don't think I am SAVING MONEY.... with numbers like that... sure it might be CHEAPER than trying to buy 3600 rounds of 223 w/55gn FMJ .... but is that REALLY saving money... considering you would need to spend WEEKS of time with a single stage press to LOAD that many?? it took me an entire weekend once to load about 800 rounds of .223... that was with my OWN BRASS... brass prep... ( tumbling, sorting, de-priming, resizing, case mouth prep,and then priming, ) before I even load anything... takes HOURS AND HOURS!!! If you figure in the TIME SPENT reloading... it really is a labor of LOVE not one of savings...

 

If you LOVE to reload... RELOAD because you enjoy it... and because your ammo will be CONSISTENT and ACCURATE.... not because you saved a nickel.

 

I realize you are talking about shotgun loading... I can load TRAP loads for about 4 bucks a box... buying them costs about 6... hunting loads, still abut 4 to 6 bucks a box... compared to 15 to 20 a box... thats when you will save... a little... but lead costs are rising... and availability is even more uncertain...

 

[psl sniper 963]

all my brass is free. do you need .223 brass indy? i have a few walmart bags full, always looking to trade......

i also cast all my own bullets, with free lead. i pay for powder and primers. and time.

 

start up cost is another story, most of my stuff is used, either inherited or purchased cheap (ebay comes to mind)

 

 

also i dont reload trap. i reload buck and slugs.

i reload 12 gauge, 9mm and 30-06, i just did about 2500 9mm, all cast. i dont do as much for the rifle.

time is a probably the biggest factor, it is time consuming, but i dont watch alot of tv or play video games. (just work and kids) i consider reloading time "me" time

like i said if you have to buy your brass and bullets that will add to the cost.

 

end result? much better accuracy compared to factory, and the satisfaction of doing it yourself.

[msrdiver 42]

If ordering bulk materials, order more powder and primers than you anticipate. This way you'll only have the 1 extra fee. SO maybe order like 12 lbs of powder and 2000 primers and then find that UPS left it on my front step with the Hazmat label facing the street.

 

RU hooked on 20 gauge? Or perhaps you can be persuaded to other 12 gauge recipes?

 

Buy bulk buckshot (Remington Field Grade) from precisionreloading.com

 

They sell in 25lb bags and will ship 2 in a low rate USPS package.

 

OK have fun and be safe.

7000 grains per 1 pound. My favorite load uses 28.4 grains per shell. So that yields 246 shells per pound of powder.

[getitat 609]

Hello

 

Stay on top of Craigslist, and check local listings on egay. Estate sales of loaders w/ supplies from folks who "just want to get rid of it all" are what you need to look out for, and are a lot more common than you might think. You can't be slow, however....

 

-guido in Houston

"God Loves Liberty"

[netpackrat 566]

Edit: I may have made a noob mistake and confused grains with grams in the reloading datasheets. That would have made a big difference in the number of shells that can be reloaded with one pound of powder. hehe

 

Yup. At 36.0 grains of HS-6 in each one of my slug loads, I can get 194 of them from a single pound of HS-6, theoretically.

 

Also, you need to be aware of the fact that no reloader in the history of reloading has ever spent less money on ammo after taking up reloading, than he did before.

[psl sniper 963]

Edit: I may have made a noob mistake and confused grains with grams in the reloading datasheets. That would have made a big difference in the number of shells that can be reloaded with one pound of powder. hehe

 

Yup. At 36.0 grains of HS-6 in each one of my slug loads, I can get 194 of them from a single pound of HS-6, theoretically.

 

Also, you need to be aware of the fact that no reloader in the history of reloading has ever spent less money on ammo after taking up reloading, than he did before.

also, i get a ton more reloads for my 9mm, then i do shotshells. compare 4-5 grains for 9mm vs 30-38 for a shotshell (depending on pwder of course)

[RED333 1,025]

Green dot for shoot shell

7000 grains per pound. $25.00 when I got it last.

20 gains per shell.

350 shells per pound.

[RobRez 1,895]

I have been reloading for many years. The initial cost was not too bad back then. I think with shotshells, Indy is right on the Money, so to say.... Hard to beat the cost, but reliability is where you get results. I mainly reload pistol or rifle cartriges, and when you load top quality in those, you can start to make your money back, slowly. I have loaded Thousands upon thousands of .44 mag rounds, and shoot very often. the difference in cost for me, at this point, does save me money over commercial loads. I can load Plinking rounds and hunting rounds much cheaper. Keep in mind, I bought lots of supplies long ago, and still only need to continue buying powder. I have also been doing it for long enough to feel that it has More than paid for itself in the quality and accuracy of my rounds, made to what my guns seem to like. That is priceless.

It is a fun hobby, and on a dull day, I can just hit the press and make some ammo. I like being a bit self sufficient.

[El Cabron 91]

I used to reload pistol and rifle cartidges with a single stage reloader. I bought a progressive loader, Dillon 650 XL, about 25 years ago. It has a deprimer/case mouth flare station, case feeder, primer feed, powder feed with low powder alarm, seating/crimping station. All I have to do is set my powder charge weight, seating depth, keep cases in the case feed, refill the primer feed (holds 100 in tube), and manually place a bullet into the case mouth before the seating/crimping station. I can easily crank out 400 - 500 pistol rounds per hour, including several quality checks. I also bought a large Dillon case polisher thought will vibrate clean a large amount of cases out one time. A progressive reloader will greatly simplify your reloading effort, increase productivity, and reduce the frustration level. More ammo to shoot, and more time to do it!

[gunfun 3,931]

I've come way ahead already in shotshell reloading, using the original Lee Load All. I'd rather have a fancier press, but this one gets the job done. Roughly 40 total seconds to make each buckshot or 50 per slug round. common birdshot loads are cheaper to buy than to make. I'll be keeping my eyes open for a steal on a mec progressive shotgun rig. The ones I have handled seemed to be easier and less prone to breakage than the hornady progressives I was looking at.

 

Buy primers and powder local and find a place that gives quantity discounts. The hazmat fee will get you more than the price difference if you try to buy online. Wads and other components from precision reloading or Ballistic products are a better deal, especially if you buy in bulk. Claybuster clones are good for everything but slugs.

 

Buy your buckshot in 25# Rem field grade bags. IIRC 1 (22 pellet) oz loads of #4 buck worked out to ~22-24 cents each with most powders. Assuming you already have the empties.

 

I bought a can of green dot for $21 about 2 months ago in local store. WSF was $24. Bullseye was $20... Most of the shotgun powders were within a couple bucks of each other.

 

So all things stated, I am spending about the same but shooting 3-4 times as much. If you stockpile primers and powder when cheap, it doesn't take up much space and you can ignore short term price spikes and shortages. The feeling of independence is justification alone. Then consider you can also have loads that they don't make, or maybe they don't keep in stock.

 

Sadly, I stocked up on shotgun primers, but didn't get enough pistol primers. Another couple of thousand pistol rounds should break me even on my investment into a faster metallic loading setup. I am still missing a few of the common tools and places to store them, but I am already making good ammo safely and easily. It isn't the fanciest, and there are surely better rigs, but I am happy I went this route. Just learning the system, I find I can crank out 4-500 rnds an hour with a slow and steady pace and lots of quality inspections along the way.

[netpackrat 566]

So all things stated, I am spending about the same but shooting 3-4 times as much.

 

That's the key, right there. Most of us find that we spend at least as much on ammo as we did before, and often more. But for what you spend, you can shoot a lot more. The difference is you are investing your time.

[IndyArms 10,186]

The difference is you are investing your time.

 

Correct... as I said above... RELOAD because you ENJOY THE HOBBY!!! not JUST to save a few bucks... cause it will NOT work out that way!!!

 

 

[gunfun 3,931]

You can choose to minimise the time/cost& quality ratio.

 

I put in up front time with help from here and elsewhere to come up with some solid shotgun loads that work well with a minimum of components and steps so that my time investment is minimal.

 

That goes for casting too. With a 6 Cav mold, and a bottom pour running hot you can easily use ~$4 of lead and an hour to make bullets that would cost you $45-65 to buy. That's not a bad hourly rate for most people. I'm new and I can manage that. I am paying myself at least $40 an hour to play.

[RED333 1,025]

I have been reloading for many years. The initial cost was not too bad back then. I think with shotshells, Indy is right on the Money, so to say.... Hard to beat the cost, but reliability is where you get results. I mainly reload pistol or rifle cartriges, and when you load top quality in those, you can start to make your money back, slowly. I have loaded Thousands upon thousands of .44 mag rounds, and shoot very often. the difference in cost for me, at this point, does save me money over commercial loads. I can load Plinking rounds and hunting rounds much cheaper. Keep in mind, I bought lots of supplies long ago, and still only need to continue buying powder. I have also been doing it for long enough to feel that it has More than paid for itself in the quality and accuracy of my rounds, made to what my guns seem to like. That is priceless.

It is a fun hobby, and on a dull day, I can just hit the press and make some ammo. I like being a bit self sufficient.

I like being a bit self sufficient. The very reason I reload.

[IndyArms 10,186]

^^^^^^^ That too!!

 

 

 

[montec 164]

I know for my 30-30 I will be saving $ as I dont shoot that often except for a little target practice and the 1 bullet that I used to shoot a deer.

[lZl Jody lZl 1]

Thanks for the feedback. I have been looking at the Lee Load-All press and Hodgdon Longshot powder for shotshells and 9mm. The HS-6 powder has gotten good reviews and the Longshot appears to be more potent, thus requiring less per round. The Alliant powders seem popular as well for quality and safety due to the different colored flakes that identify the type of powder. I'm looking forward to getting my hands dirty with the first batch of buckshot loads.

[gunfun 3,931]

true on both, but one nice thing with pistol and other metalic cartridges is to choose a powder that fills up most of the available space. This makes it so that if you screwed up and double charged you would over flow the powder and notice a mess. If you use a dense power that leaves lots of room, you might be able to double charge and not even see.

 

Of course I think you should be consistent enough about where you start and stop that you cannot fail to charge or double charge, but it is nice to have another failsafe.

[netpackrat 566]

true on both, but one nice thing with pistol and other metalic cartridges is to choose a powder that fills up most of the available space. This makes it so that if you screwed up and double charged you would over flow the powder and notice a mess. If you use a dense power that leaves lots of room, you might be able to double charge and not even see.

 

Not necessarily just metallic cartridges. I managed to double charge one of my shotgun cases last year or the year before. I'm not sure how I managed to do it, but since the charge was 36 grains of HS-6, it became obvious as soon as I seated the wad with the slug (Lee slug load). No way would it have crimped right. If I had been using a lesser charge of a more "economical" powder to accomplish the same thing, I might not have noticed. And that could have been real bad.

 

One reason I like using a progressive press (with auto indexing- this is important) for loading handgun cartridges, is that it makes it more difficult to get a double charge or no charge, as long as you keep the powder measure full. With the more advanced presses, you can add things like low powder alarms, and powder check dies if there is an extra die station.

[gunfun 3,931]

Agreed about the progressives or auto indexing turrets. They make human steps mechanical. In my opinion, humans make more mistakes.

 

Maybe not everyone needs a progressive, but a cheap turret press costs about the same or less than many single stage presses. I don't think anyone should plan on starting with a single stage with that option on the table.

 

Maybe a partial exception for super large calibers or bench/match shooters, but for the rest of us I believe every time you handle a component and take it in or out of the press, you have another chance to make a mistake.

 

My bargain progressive leaves me with only 3 places to check each time I pull the lever: case drops, primer drops, powder drops to visually the right level. I top off all of those after I rotate the case feed a few times. Setting the bullet in makes me look at the powder, and the first two steps make audible clicks. I feel much more secure doing this than doing 5 pulls of the lever on a single stage each time putting a shell from a tray into a shell holder and then putting it in another tray or bin. Obviously I do periodic samples for dimension and weight too with either system.

[gunfun 3,931]

Thanks for the feedback fellas.

 

Do you melt down your own lead too and if so, what are some good sources of information?

 

If I can find them, yes.

 

Sources of information that have been useful to me so far:

 

MsrDiver, Red333, and a bit of Indy

 

Castboolits.gunloads.com So far the most helpful over all. Much like here, if you spend a few hours reading about the solutions to other people's problems you can skip the mistakes and go straight to trouble free production. There is a great guide on fitting your load to your gun, another one on casting fast and hot for very consistent ammo, and another one for a superior tumble lube that works great for low cost and minimal time investment. That has been working well for me. IMO the less steps you have to do the better the pay off. These guys have streamlined the process and developed best practices to make quality ammo very fast and very cheap.

 

 

 

Lyman's current manuals for shotty and metallic Speer manual, Hodgedon and Alliant official website offer good load data. Data that lee includes with dies and molds is helpful because the other commercial manuals don't have data for some of the bullets I cast. I haven't seen a lee manual in stores for a long time. IMO they offer more complete listing of potential loads, but less useful data on each load. Hornady manual has a great layout but mostly only covers bullets hornady sells. None of the ones I have list data for magnum 2 3/4" shotgun shells or +p pistol cartridges. I wish they did. They are also pretty skimpy on buckshot and slug load data.

 

There is also this site, but be aware that not all of the loads are pressure tested, so keep an eye to the data source column. http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=9%20mm&Weight=All&type=Handgun&Order=Powder&Source= they are still useful for ideas about what can be worked up to.

 

a comprehensive guide to casting: From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide For Handgunners, Table of Contents - Fryxell/Applegate

 

Handloading Cost Calculator

[gunfun 3,931]

Here is a spreadsheet I made.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak0Uu1DF-59PdHlMdTRrVDBiWDBYVFpoN1kzZktnM2c#gid=0

 

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B00Uu1DF-59PRWdKNUp5LXUySUU/edit?usp=sharing

[lZl Jody lZl 1]

The cost of 25 lbs of buckshot has gone up (at Precision Reloading)! haha
Thanks again for sharing your experience and links to information.

 

Here is a spreadsheet I made.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak0Uu1DF-59PdHlMdTRrVDBiWDBYVFpoN1kzZktnM2c#gid=0

 

 

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B00Uu1DF-59PRWdKNUp5LXUySUU/edit?usp=sharing

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Pre-panic pricing, there's not much savings to be had reloading plinking ammo in standard calibers, especially 12 and 20 gauge shotshells. However, when you get into the less popular cartridges like .458 SOCOM, 10 gauge, 440 Corbon Magnum, 450 Nitro Express and stuff like that, the savings are HUGE.

 

Kynoch 450 Nitro Express loaded with common Woodleigh bullets is $16 a shot (not box) plus freight. 10rd limit on purchasing at Midway. That's over $300 bucks for a box of 20. You can pay for all your reloading gear with the first box of shells you shoot!

 

Tony