ultra7350 21 Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 Was anyone installed this on their S12? Results? I don't know about replacing the metal factory parts with plastic aftermarket parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Turbo.M777 11 Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I have one cause I was having FTE issues and thought it might fix it. It didn't. But having spare parts is never a bad thing. It doesn't hold the springs together like the stock one when it's removed. So it's just slightly more difficult to reassemble after cleaning or whatever. But it's not that big of a deal. Personally I have noticed absolutely no performance improvement when shooting, but in your hand you can tell its a little bit smoother with smaller tolerances between the moving parts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayLT4 18 Posted February 5, 2013 Report Share Posted February 5, 2013 I just installed one on my S12. Not sure yet if I would really recommend it, outside of a competition gun where you needed to squeeze every possible but of smoothness out of. On mine, I didn't notice much difference at all with how the action felt. And, like the pervious poster stated, it does not hold the rear spring compressed when you remove it so putting it back in is a bit more of a process then the standard setup. The pin used to hold my assembly in place needed to be pressed out...I learned this only after I broke two different punches trying to remove it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LoudBoomBoom 26 Posted February 6, 2013 Report Share Posted February 6, 2013 I have one of these installed as well and, so far, I like it. My Saiga is primarily for use with heavy slugs loaded hot. I found there were certain issues that needed to be addressed to improve function, reliability, and longevity. First, heavy loads require, among other things, being able to tune the springs to the loads to find that sweet spot between battering and consistent ejection and loadind of the next round. Being able to change springs easily and frequently, particularly the rear one, while at the range or in the field without tools is paramount to me. This alone was reason enough. The factory springs are adequate for average loads and within a certain range. If you are regularly within that range you may not need this. Second, some Saigas may experience spring binding under heavy loads and these help reduce this. The Delrin guide being plastic has inherently more self-lubricity so its less subject to galling, binding, and corrosion. Third, this allowed me the option of using or not using the shield without any permanent modifications to anything. I like to keep the shield off so I can manually release the hammer softly while not in use (keep springs more relaxed), or put it back on easily for field use or if I let some else use it. Yes, It does take a little bit of a different handholding technique to put back in but, after doing it a few times it becomes second nature. And Yes, again, that pin holding the rod is the one single part I absolutely hate in the Saiga. Mine was tapered and I didn't know so I did a lot of beating up on the wrong end, making things worse. When I started beating the CORRECT end, It did come out. My saying it was tapered is because I mic'd it after taking it out, not because I imagined it or am guessing. Whether the tapering was designed or the result of an improperly drilled hole into which the pin expanded, I don't know. Having this JTE piece in place, however, means I may never again have to mess with that pin, and that suits me just fine. If I had had an FTE problem, I would have eliminated all other potential causes before replacing this. I don't think it is something the average Saiga shooter needs. But if you have a good reason for wanting it, I think it is very much worth it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seanW 1 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I bought one of these from Jack the other day and have had some trouble with that damn pin as well. Any suggestions on how to get it out? LBB, from which side did you have to remove it? Would heating be a possibility? Thanks for any suggestions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 First off, if anyone ever has a problem with one of my products, please call me and I will go through what ever needs to be done to make it easy for you to understand the installment and/or how to use the product as it was intended. Here is what I do if I have a stubborn pin. I start off tightening the stock recoil assembly in a good vise with the pin as close to the top of the jaws a possible. I use a stub punch to start the pin: 5/32 punch with only a .100 tip at the shoulder. The short punch will allow you to get more centered and deliver a good hammer blow to start the pin. Once I have the pin started, I use a standard length 5/32 punch and finish driving the pin out. The key is having a good straight, blow that does not deflect. If anyone has a problem and wants me to do it, with same day turn around, please contact me. Regards, Jack Travers JT Engineering 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
seanW 1 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 PM sent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 Jack, Ive read where you like to set up competition saigas with a progressive spring setup using this guiderod. Since im not much into the comp scene, do you happen to know a baseline of what lbs springs to use to make the gun as close to factory specs but with a progressive setup? Also, what is preferred, the heavier spring in the back, or in the front? Or does it even matter? ETA: And is a progressive spring setup okay to use with magnum loads? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MLM0358 107 Posted February 7, 2013 Report Share Posted February 7, 2013 I've put them in two competition guns and like them. You might not notice a big difference if you haven't got the hammer/bolt carrier profile right. But if you've got that right, the next level of smoothness is achieved with this. Got a few thousand rounds with them installed and they've worked and held up fine. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LoudBoomBoom 26 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 seanW - Please understand that what worked for me may not also work for you, specially since I don't know WHY it was that way. Having said, however, to answer your question, the thicker side of the pin is on my right side as I hold it in firing position (same side as the ejection). To take it out I punch from the left, to put back in I punch from the right. Heating is a possibility, but one I, personally, rejected; I didn't want to risk overheating, distempering, discoloring, or dis-anything; for me heating is a last resort measure. I rather freeze parts to let them contract a little. Obviously Jack is better informed, so listen to him more than to me. I did mine at night so I wasn't comfortable calling and waking up anybody, and, by daybreak I was done anyway, so no point calling then. sapper1371usmc - Great questions! I am staying tuned... I want to know also. Jack - I use and like your products. Thanks for answering questions on the forum. As I have posted elsewhere, I still don't know the stock recoil spring(s) poundage. I have heard between 18 and 22 lbs. but nothing concrete. The springs I ordered from Wolff are still one more Moon away and I would like to know this as a reference point by the time the springs get here. Anybody that KNOWS, please, share. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Stock springs vary on the poundage and this is also why some shotguns will FTE and some will not. Gotta remember, their manufacturing is not all that up to our standards. I measure all my spring rates to make sure they are OK or spec out to what I want. I just got out of the hospital, 8 days, 3 surgeries, and 92 staples in my leg for an Arterial Bypass. As soon as I get caught up, I will address the spring rates and recommendations on my sub forum. Spring rates can really make these shotguns sing when they are matched up to the shells!! Jack 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
haugpatr 972 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Stock springs vary on the poundage and this is also why some shotguns will FTE and some will not. Gotta remember, their manufacturing is not all that up to our standards.I measure all my spring rates to make sure they are OK or spec out to what I want. I just got out of the hospital, 8 days, 3 surgeries, and 92 staples in my leg for an Arterial Bypass. As soon as I get caught up, I will address the spring rates and recommendations on my sub forum. Spring rates can really make these shotguns sing when they are matched up to the shells!! Jack Holy Shit! Glad you made it out of there! Take a little break and rest some! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kukurilynch 2 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 get well soon Jack! just think I was going to give you shit about not having your magwell for sale yet. I am just in need of one like aaaa yesterday LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Praying for you, Jack! Really like my JT guide rod assembly, for what it's worth. It definitely adds repeatability and reliability to the recoil system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
183cav 6 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 They must not have a consistent way to install this pin at the factory. Mine was the opposite of LOUDBOOMBOOM; thicker end on the left side. Pleased with the JTE guide rod assembly. Get well soon Jack! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LoudBoomBoom 26 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 183cav - I got the queasy suspicion that, just maybe, it may not have been 'designed' to be a tapered pin but, rather, sloppy drilling of the hole makes it wider on whichever side it's drilled from and then the softer pin expands to fit the hole... I don't know... Jack - Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Hope you feel well soon. BTW, where is your sub-forum? I want to add it to my 'route' Is it just 183cav and me that have found those #@&% pins to be tapered? I'd love to hear from you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 Those pins peen pretty easily. I drove mine out left to right, and it was not easy. The most important things are having a very hard/stiff surface to work on (think anvil) and delivering only a few strong blows with the proper sized punch held squarely in line with the pin. The more blows it takes, the more the pin will swell and be difficult. When installing your pin again, make sure it is square and don't swell it with many blows. I shaved mine a bit on the way though, but it went in all right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted February 8, 2013 Report Share Posted February 8, 2013 BTW, where is your sub-forum? I want to add it to my 'route' http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/forum/131-jt-engineering/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LoudBoomBoom 26 Posted February 9, 2013 Report Share Posted February 9, 2013 King of the Hill - Thanks for the link. I have set it to "follow". Thanks again Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G929 1 Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 Get well soon jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rnemhrd 165 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 I just installed one of these and being able to put the 20lb progressive spring in the back and stock spring in front and the rod not drooping and spring being in range of the hammer scraping it causing a light strike, which has happened a few times makes it worth it. The action is smoother with the springs changed up. Nice product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JQ1 0 Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I was about to give up on mine, but watching the install video done by CSS, I saw he used a pretty heavy punch to start it out. I had just about ruined the little short punch that was in my set, so I has an old heavy center punch. I didn't feel like going out to the cold garage to the bench grinder so I just filed the tip flat to about the same diamter as the small punch I was using (I didn't want the sharp point as that would expand the endaking it even harder to remove), and filed a slightly longer taper on the end. I also used a heavy mallet instead of the brass hammer or even my ball pein hammer. Two blows and it finally moved the pin. It came out the rest of the way (left it just hanging in there) with the small punch and ball pein hammer. The big punch I used was an old cast steel punch, about 6" long and 1" diameter on the handle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1911sig 3 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I have the jte guide rod and have no complaints it is far superior to the factory peice The easiest way is like mentioned above a good set of punches and a bench vise makes easy work of the install Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Inspector 12 37 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 I too have the guide rod and it works very well. As to installation, I took the easy route. Jack installed it for me while my gun was at his shop for his reliability "massage" work and rock n lock install. Very pleased with the results. Gun runs flawlessly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,219 Posted January 7, 2015 Report Share Posted January 7, 2015 Since this thread has been revived, I have a question...with the new guide rod installed, does the rotating dust cover that separates the two springs sit further forward in the slot between the the top dust cover and the receiver? The reason I ask is it does on mine where I can actually see a little bit of the rear spring with the gun reassembled, and visually it is bugging the crap out of me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
burntpowder 23 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Spacehog, on 07 Jan 2015 - 6:24 PM, said:Since this thread has been revived, I have a question...with the new guide rod installed, does the rotating dust cover that separates the two springs sit further forward in the slot between the the top dust cover and the receiver? The reason I ask is it does on mine where I can actually see a little bit of the rear spring with the gun reassembled, and visually it is bugging the crap out of me. I ran into the same thing months ago and sent Jack a PM. He got back to me quickly with this response: "Make sure the small dust cover is mounted to the rear of the delrin slider. You can mount it two ways, forward of the spring separator or behind the spring separator. Mount it behind the separator. Also, if you run a light / heavy spring setup, put the light spring in the rear and the heavy spring in the front, otherwise the heavy spring will push the dust cover forward." I was mounting the small dust cover to the front of the delrin slider (I do not run a light/heavy spring setup). I originally mounted it forward because of the video on the CSS website but once I got the reply from Jack I moved it to the rear and all was fine. -bp Edited January 8, 2015 by burntpowder 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,219 Posted January 8, 2015 Report Share Posted January 8, 2015 Awesome response. Thanks for the reply. I will do just that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SG71 1 Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 Very pleased with the JTE guide rod; visually, you can tell the machine work is hi-end, and I absolutely feel the difference racking the ruskie.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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