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ammohawg

Bonesteel folders - first time out

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Said by Netpackrat "All that video proves is that with enough practice you can work around something that is stupid."

So maybe he believes that adapt, overcome, and improvise by the USMC is stupid too.

 

Said by Netpackrat "By transport, I mean in a vehicle."

Just so you know some people don't own cars (like myself) and transport their rifles/shotguns by carrying them. As an Alaskan I though you knew that.

 

Said by Netpackrat "The Norks? Seriously? It would have made a lot more sense to post pictures of the Russians."

No need to get racist. These are just opinions. If you want to believe your left sided method works that fine. Others individuals and entire nations believe that is wrong for them. What I am pointing out to less prejudiced folks is that there is a better way. That way goes smoothy with the design of our shotguns. The Saiga 12 (S12) design logically accounts for a right side folding stock with it's free built in side mount. Hence all the high quality right sided folding stocks made today.

 

Below are pictures of Russian right sided folders for Netpackrat. The facts of the matter is that their are right sided, left sided, and under folding stocks. Which is best depends on your preference, experience, and how your weapon is set up. As pointed out by many members the right side folding stock work best for the S12 in most cases.

 

The 1st photo is a very common Russian right side folding stock the next/last picture is josey88's Saiga .223 with a 20" barrel. josey88 said he got a "folding stock to the right because of the side mount scope".

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post-45752-0-72063500-1360791197_thumb.jpg

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Good point. One of the more common accidental gunshot wounds seen on the battlefield is from soldiers shooting themselves in the knee and having the 5.56 bullet exit somewhere around the ankle. Very nasty wound. This from the one point sling carry method where the muzzle is pointing down and to the left. Wish I had the video to post of the doctor/surgeon explaining this.

 

 

That's a bit of a red herring, since I haven't seen anybody here advocating single point carry. When I carry muzzle down on my off side, the muzzle is only pointing at the ground at an angle away from my body.

 

Said by Netpackrat "All that video proves is that with enough practice you can work around something that is stupid."

So maybe he believes that adapt, overcome, and improvise by the USMC is stupid too.

 

 

I'm sure that the marines would find a way to make whatever they are issued work. It's my understanding that in the military you use what they give you, and follow orders or else. So, pointing to what some military unit uses as an example doesn't really make the case that their way of doing something is the best. It may even be the best for them, but that doesn't mean it is the best for me. As individuals we each need to find out what is best for our particular needs, and it's up to the manufacturers to fill that need. The main reason I got into building my own stocks, was because there wasn't anything out there quite like what I wanted.

 

The question asked was whether a right or a left side folder is best... I think we have each made our case concerning our preferences, but we are pushing ever closer to making it personal. I'm as much at fault for that as anyone, but I don't really want to go there, so I will address the remaining points, and then concede this thread.

 

To the guy who asked the question, I will make a suggestion that is no doubt going to be unpopular here due to Bonesteel being a forum sponsor. I have nothing against the Bonesteel mechanism, but it does carry the disadvantage of not being convertible between folding left and right. That's fine if you already know what you want, but in your case, I would recommend going with the Ace system, because it can easily be converted from one way to the other. Try it both ways, and decide what works best for you, the way you operate. What works best for me, or anybody else posting in this thread might not be right for you.

 

 

Just so you know some people don't own cars (like myself) and transport their rifles/shotguns by carrying them. As an Alaskan I though you knew that

 

 

Sure. I made the distinction between transport and carry, because much of the utility of a folding stock has to do with getting in and out of vehicles, or fitting into a package of a size that most people wouldn't expect to hold a rifle. If I'm going to be carrying my rifle (or shotgun) exposed, on a sling, then I want the stock extended, and the weapon as ready for use as possible. Just my personal preference.

 

And while Alaska is one of the few places where you can still sling a rifle, head down the sidewalk on foot, and have some reasonable expectation of reaching your destination without law enforcement becoming involved, it also says you are in Anchorage, and I would never want to try to get around here without a vehicle. Unless you've got an airplane tied down at Merrill or something, you're not even going to be able to get out and actually enjoy Alaska without depending on somebody else's ownership of a vehicle. In the small town where I grew up, maybe, but if you live in Anchorage with no vehicle at all, you're just another city dweller but with worse weather than most of those Outside.

 

 

Said by Netpackrat "The Norks? Seriously? It would have made a lot more sense to post pictures of the Russians." No need to get racist.

 

 

What was racist about that? If you want to call me a racist, that's probably the worst possible example you could have chosen. Korea is two ethnically and culturally identical (at least, prior to WWII) nations separated by ideology. "Norks" is an entirely geographical term that is short for (wait for it) North Korea. My point was that I'm not going to look to a totalitarian state that is stuck in the 1950s (and backsliding) as a good example of anything that I should apply to my life.

 

 

These are just opinions. If you want to believe your left sided method works that fine. Others individuals and entire nations believe that is wrong for them.

 

 

That's fine. You, and they, can use whatever you like, and it doesn't impact me one way or the other. I was just trying to explain to the guy who asked the question, why I chose what I chose. You've clearly made your choice, so none of what I posted was for you anyway.

 

 

What I am pointing out to less prejudiced folks is that there is a better way.

 

 

Way to make it personal. I guess it must not be prejudice when you do it.

 

 

That way goes smoothy with the design of our shotguns. The Saiga 12 (S12) design logically accounts for a right side folding stock with it's free built in side mount. Hence all the high quality right sided folding stocks made today.

 

 

It's not free; somebody had to manufacture and attach that side mount. That raises the cost to produce the Saiga, and even those who don't want the side mount have to pay for that whether they like it or not (unless they get one of the ones that were brought in without it). I already said that I personally don't want the side mount, so therefore the ability to mount an optic to it doesn't impact which direction I want my stock to fold. I actually removed the side rail from my .308 last week, and will most likely do the same with my S-12 at some point. I can't see ever putting an optic on my shotgun, anyway. It's a cylinder bore lead hose.

 

 

Below are pictures of Russian right sided folders for Netpackrat. The facts of the matter is that their are right sided, left sided, and under folding stocks. Which is best depends on your preference, experience, and how your weapon is set up. As pointed out by many members the right side folding stock work best for the S12 in most cases.

 

 

The first stock is almost certainly not of Russian manufacture. The vast majority of that style on the market were made by one of several of the Soviet client states. The second stock pictured is a US made aftermarket billet aluminum stock with an ACE cheek rest on an ACE style hinge. Not a Russian or combloc stock at all. This can be seen more clearly in one of Josey88's other pictures in the .223 picture thread. The point remains, that as far as nation level users in the military sense are concerned, the Russians are still leading the pack in terms of developing the AK. And the vast majority of the folding stocks they have issued or produced in recent decades, have been left side folders.

 

Again, that doesn't mean that what the Russians issue to their military is the best possible thing for any of us, any more than we should look at the Norks, or the Chinese, or Venezuela (or whoever) as what we should each be doing. Military issue is mostly one type fits all, while we each have the option of evaluating and choosing for ourselves, and we should take advantage of that.

Edited by Netpackrat

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To the guy who asked the question...

 

Since I'm that guy I wanted to take the time and thank all of you who have contributed to this thread. Never did I think you guys would pour so much heart & soul into the subject. We can chew on the topic until there's little flavor left yet your effort here doesn't go unappreciated.

 

As I look at the UPS tracking number, I'll be picking up my Iz-447 tomorrow. My plan is to leave the configuration alone and familiarize myself with the platform before any decision is made. In the end I just may indeed slap birch laminate on it and call it a day...

 

And finally for Netpackrat, I smiled at the vision of walking down the side streets of Anchorage with my S-12 slung over my shoulder. I agree, I doubt APD would bat a eyebrow. But as for the Los Anchorage thugs, I might as well be carrying a money bag from the bank.

 

Thanks everyone! We'll see you at the range...

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Where do you all shoot? I'm an EPM at Birchwood, but I don't get out there much in the winter due to the weather and this year child care issues.

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Birchwood as well. I may pony up for their "exclusive" membership but until then I'll be hobnobbing with the commoners.

 

I'm new to the sport. I purchased my first handgun in 2010 and as of tomorrow I'll finally own an S-12. I am always open to meeting like minded individuals so send me a pm if you are ever interested in meeting up to send some rounds down range.

 

Alaska is well represented in this forum. There's something about this state that drives a person into gun ownership. Even the urban cheechakos believe in packing heat.

Edited by HighPlainsDrifter

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Birchwood as well. I may pony up for their "exclusive" membership but until then I'll be hobnobbing with the commoners.

 

It's not as exclusive as it used to be, before they doubled the non-member daily rate. Now everybody is a member, which means that during the "EPM only" times there are still plenty of people out there. When I first started going there, I had to be an EPM to shoot at all because both my days off were EPM only days, and I usually could count on having an entire range to myself. It was a lot like shooting back home in Cordova. Now, not so much. Still beats dealing with the nazis at Rabbit Creek though.

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Thanks your very thorough points Netpackrat. After HighPlainDrifter statement above I believe we have made our points clear.

 

The only thing I will respond to is your derogatory term for North Koreans. I believe respect for all people should be followed on this forum. I get very personal when this is not.

Edited by sweetcostarica

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Are the Bonesteel folders shipping with a butt pad?

nope but the ace butt pad will match the bolt pattern on the BS folder. i went this route till Bonesteel comes out with theirs.

Edited by adjc

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The only thing I will respond to is your derogatory term for North Koreans. I believe respect for all people should be followed on this forum. I get very personal when this is not.

 

I will not be anything but derogatory towards those evil, communist fuckers. They are a menace to all peaceful and free people, worldwide. And especially to those countries unfortunate enough to be their neighbors.

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No, that's an arab word for something else entirely. And I like South Koreans a lot. Good people, hard-ass workers, not batshit crazy like their neighbors. I guess you could call them ROKs if you wanted.

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Netpackrat said: "I will not be anything but derogatory towards those evil, communist fuckers. They are a menace to all peaceful and free people, worldwide. And especially to those countries unfortunate enough to be their neighbors."

 

Then let everyone on this forum who does not prejudge a person for their race, religion, belief, or political views condemn you and have nothing to do with you Netpackrat.

 

From your own words you do not see the difference in an oppressive dictator, a tyrannical government, corrupt leaders, and the individual person. You judge by color, race, group, religion, or politics. All the judgements that evil men have done for centuries.

 

What a shame that your hate for people different than you has blinded you to the truth. Truth: it is the system that is/was broken in China, Britain, Germany, USA, and in this case North Korea. If I meet an Iranian or Russian today I will not use judgmentally charged words or become derogatory. I will treat him with respect as an individual and find out his beliefs by peaceful means first. After weighing his character if I find a dark heart then either back away and have nothing to do with him or challenge his beliefs like I am now.

 

North and South Korea

Just to give you a case in point Netpackrat: Last week I talked with a South Korean pilot who told me that when the DMZ was established whole families were caught on both sides (like the Berlin Wall). He said most of his family and property (I think it was a large farm) are in North Korea and he and his wife are in South Korea.

Question: Are there North Koreans and South Koreans? or Are they just Koreans with a physical and political line between them?

 

I write this more for the forum members who are clear thinkers and as a warning. Don't let hate rule you and destroy you. In almost all of my experience of travel literally around the world I have found in most cases that people even though different have more in common than not.

post-45752-0-76808200-1360879521.jpg

Edited by sweetcostarica

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about how awesome our folding stocks are.

 

So re-rail us. I'd like to see your favorite application of your own stock. I'm thinking of buying one soon, convince me. big_smile.gif

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about how awesome our folding stocks are.

Yeah, I just ordered one a week ago and was hoping to find all the cool testimonies about my future folder. Can't wait to ditch the Kvar stock!

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Yeah, I just ordered one a week ago and was hoping to find all the cool testimonies about my future folder.

 

Great thread by Sweetcostarica... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/84186-bonesteel-arms-folding-stock-for-saiga-12-first-impressions/

 

And another discussing the same topic... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/82285-bonesteel-arms-folding-stock/

Edited by HighPlainsDrifter

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Are the Bonesteel folders shipping with a butt pad?

nope but the ace butt pad will match the bolt pattern on the BS folder. i went this route till Bonesteel comes out with theirs.

Thank you for the response. This thread had become quite pointless for a while...rolleyes.gif

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Then let everyone on this forum who does not prejudge a person for their race, religion, belief, or political views condemn you and have nothing to do with you Netpackrat.

 

From your own words you do not see the difference in an oppressive dictator, a tyrannical government, corrupt leaders, and the individual person. You judge by color, race, group, religion, or politics. All the judgements that evil men have done for centuries.

 

It's always good to know who one's enemies are, even the insignificant ones. I suspect you are yet another recent liberal transplant to AK who needs to go back to wherever it was you came from. Since this isn't really going anywhere, and you seem more interested in picking a fight than anything else, I will make this to the point. Hate has nothing to do with it. You condemn me? I'll tell you what *I* condemn. I condemn an ideology and a political system that has killed well over 100 million people over the course of the last century or so. I don't need to judge them by their color, race, or their religion. I can judge them by their works. Did most of the North Koreans ask for the system they are living under? Of course not. But nobody is going to change it for them; we certainly can't, and enough American blood has already been spent trying. If the North Koreans want to be seen as anything but a pariah state and a dangerous menace, the people of North Korea need to replace their government with one that is not a constant danger to the entire region (to include Alaska, since we're in missile range). And they need to do it before their current government forces some other country to drop nukes on their ass in self defense.

 

And to everybody else in the thread, I apologize for my part in the de-railment; I should have seen where it was going before it got to that point. I was ready to let it go after answering his previous post, but I am not going to stand by and let somebody call me a racist without answering it. And I will absolutely judge somebody by their ideology and their political views, when those views are hostile to the things that *I* believe in.

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about how awesome our folding stocks are.

 

I'd love to post about how awesome your folder is. I ordered one a couple weeks ago, so I certainly don't want to have to post about it sucking. That would, well, suck. If it is good, and does what I need it to do, I will post great things about it, with pics. If it is not, I will post about that, too.

 

You, or somebody at your company has called me a couple of times about availability issues with part of what I ordered. That's great customer service, and I appreciate it. Unfortunately, the second call (yesterday) was about the same issue, which I thought had been cleared up by substitution of a different part. I realize that the entire industry is going nuts right now and the occasional mix up is quite understandable. But, a notice telling me that my folding mechanism has shipped, and noting the change would be a great thing to find in my inbox soon. beer.gif

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about how awesome our folding stocks are.

 

Oops. Sorry ObiWanBonJovi, I get passionate about certain things and get carried away. In the end which side your folding stock swings is more of a personal decision.

I am extremely happy with the Bonesteel Galil Style stock I bought and to all who are considering it I would say go for it for your Saiga. It is of the highest quality. It's lockup is really solid and will stay that way for a long, long time.

Since it doesn't have a recoil pad (like Military ones) you might want to get some type of pad for range practice and/or very powerful loads.

post-45752-0-72945000-1360924800.jpg

Edited by sweetcostarica

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Since it doesn't have a recoil pad (like Military ones) you might want to get some type of pad for range practice and/or very powerful loads.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the AR type stocks on an AK, but if you get the buffer tube style, with an AR adjustable butt stock, Limbsaver makes a slip-on recoil pad to fit the AR 6 position stock. It is high quality, very soft, and costs about 35 bucks. I have it on my S-12 on a stock of my own design, and it helps a lot. The basic problem with the Galil type stocks on a 12 gauge shotgun, is that the size and shape of the butt isn't really conducive to spreading the recoil out over a wider area, or adding an effective pad. It was originally meant for a rifle with lower recoil.

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I thought this thread was supposed to be about how awesome our folding stocks are.

Yeah, I just ordered one a week ago and was hoping to find all the cool testimonies about my future folder. Can't wait to ditch the Kvar stock!

I will provide testimony. I didn't buy a stock because I have an ACE stock already that I am using but I bought their folder adapter that allows you to put any AR stock on and turn it into a folder. I received it last week and I love the thing. Locks up tight in the open and the closed positions, Mechanism is smooth, and I didn't have to cut the tang off so if I want I can still put my S12 back into factory configuration. Great product. Don't think I will ever purchase another brand. After seeing the folder mechanism, I want to buy their muzzle break now. The quality is awesome.

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Still foggy on the buttpad question. Does the part circled in red here come with the stock?

 

11l3.jpg

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Still foggy on the buttpad question. Does the part circled in red here come with the stock?

 

11l3.jpg

yes...that is part of the stock

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