Billyjobob 0 Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 (edited) What do you think of this? Edited March 30, 2004 by Billyjobob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 30, 2004 Report Share Posted March 30, 2004 Kinda hard to see. I know I'd like to get a break for mine, though I hate to increase barrel length Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cpileri 0 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Where did you get it? or did you make it? I dont care too much about added barrel length, myself. C- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 I don't think any shotgun produces enough pressure make the brake effective. Others feel it works, I think it's a marketing ploy to help sell porting .... Pressure ins a shotgun is MUCH lower than a rifle/pistol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LargePrime 0 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 Shotguns use ports insted of a break. These are holes in the barrel. Lower pressue needs more gas escaping. But they are of arguable effectiveness. Most feel they just make more noise. Shotguns have neither the muzzle energy or the need for the rate of fire to make a muzzle brake of value. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
J A 0 Posted March 31, 2004 Report Share Posted March 31, 2004 http://www.magnaport.com/sgun.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 1, 2004 Report Share Posted April 1, 2004 You shouldnt have your barrel ported on anything but a rifled slug barrel, or a NON CHOKED barrel. Thought I would add that. I dont use porting on shotguns, but I have shot one slug gun that was ported. I didnt like it, myself... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CheeseHead 0 Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 Just to clarify porting is a personal choice. No harm can come from correctly porting a smooth bore shotgun, chokes or otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted April 20, 2004 Report Share Posted April 20, 2004 If you look up cutts compensators they have a system that is ported before the interchangible chokes. I all looks too busy and complicated for me. I believe in KISS ( keep it simple,stupid!). However many screw chokes come ported-the idea is to remove the pressure of the colomn of gas from the rear of the shot wad. This ,coupled with opening up the cup is supposed to tighten up patterns.Haven't tested this yet but it makes sense. (It dosen't hurt that a knurled,ported,extended choke just LOOKS like it wants to KILL SOMETHING!) G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jkmccoy 0 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 (edited) BVAMP once again adds a useless and meaningless reply. There is no harm to having a ported barrel, smooth/rifled/choked/non-choked or otherwise. As several people have said, the gas pressure at the muzzle of a shotgun is MUCH less than in a pistol or a rifle. Because the pressure is so much lower muzzle brakes are much less effective on shotguns than they are on pistols or rifles. ("BRAKES" as in applying braking pressure, not "BREAKS" as in breaking something.) Porting is somewhat more effective since it starts farther away from the muzzle where there is more gas pressure. But, porting can only vent gas pressure and can't use that gas pressure to moderate felt recoil. If you want an effective compensator for a shotgun you should look at the compensator built by JP Enterprises (<http://www.jprifles.com/>). JP can install this compensator on pretty much any shotgun you send them. His web page also has a lot of good information on the design of shotgun compensators. Even if it looks "busy" to some members, the Cutts Compensator was a great idea in its time. Remember that when the Cutts was popular most shotgun loads included a card over-powder wad and fiber wads to fill the space between the powder and the shot. The main purpose of the Cutts Compensator was not to reduce recoil, it was to prevent blown patterns caused by the card wad getting caught in the choke and gas blowing out one side of the shot pattern. Having a vented "compensator" before the choke prevented blown patterns with the shotshells of that era. Another selling point of the Cutts Compensators was that by venting the gas before the shot column hit the choke you would get a much more even pattern because the choke was only influenced by the inertia of the shot charge and was not affected by the gas pressure behind the shot column. I have several shotguns (all vintage Model 12 Winchesters) with Cutts Compensators and I can attest that they all throw remarkably even patterns with any shotshells. A vented barrel with interchangeable choke tubes would achieve many of the same benefits of a Cutts Compensator. But if you add a JP compensator you will also reduce felt recoil a lot. (I've shot a JP equipped Rem 1100 and my Saiga has a JP copy compensator on it.) The muzzle brake in the picture will not be very effective in reducing felt recoil. There just isn't enough gas pressure left at the muzzle of a shotgun to have much effect. Cheers, Kelly McCoy San Angelo, TX Edited April 21, 2004 by jkmccoy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 I love coming here and finding a new insult directed at me. Kelly? Explain to me why we need a Cutts on our saigas.... Also, in case you hadnt noticed I said that I have tried a ported slug gun, and I did not particularly like it. Do you action shoot or something? To me, porting a shotgun is just a waste of money that I can spend on a case or two of ammo, or put twords another gun. There is no need to port a choked barrel anymore unless you measure your patterns in millimeters and microns. ....Unless you like to draw pictures with your shotgun, that is. If one does want to go that route, as I said before, just get a turkey choke with break ports in the end of it. Again, to get one of those on your saiga, you most likely have to have it re-choked to one of the standard chokes. Again, a waste of money to me. You are trying to take a chevy and turn it into a bmw. Just buy a bmw in the first place, or if you are like me, buy a couple chevys instead with the money you save. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jkmccoy 0 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 BVAMP, I doubt seriously that the original poster was interested in improving his patterns. Your comment didn't address either patterns or recoil reduction, just stated flatly that "you shouldn't have your barrel ported on anything but a rifled slug barrel, or a NON CHOKED barrel." No explanation. No facts to back it up. Not particularly useful to the ongoing discussion. I pointed that out although I probably should have done so without a personal attack. I did NOT advocate Cutts Compensators for Saigas. I did explain my understanding of how they function since it had been questioned in this thread. Even if you don't want to turn a Chevy into a BMW, I can't imagine any shotgun sport where having a more even pattern wouldn't be an advantage. However, the original topic of this thread was asking for opinions about a muzzle brake. I assumed that the poster was interested in reducing felt recoil. I doubt that the brake pictured will be very effective (porting the barrel will also not be very effective). Yes, I shoot USPSA 3-Gun and an effective muzzle brake does help. Cheers, Kelly McCoy San Angelo, TX Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted April 21, 2004 Report Share Posted April 21, 2004 what is there to say really? if you arent a competition shooter, you dont need to go spend the hundreds of dollars (more than the gun itself even costs in the first place) on porting or a break. I was stating something simple, and didnt think there was much to explain after that. obviously there was. If you compete in shotgun anything, get a port job. It will help you keep your muzzle down about 1/20th of a degree. I myself prefer to just lean a little harder. IMHO comps and porting on 12 gauge is useless. Go and waste your money on it if you want to. But what do I know anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spas12 0 Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 How about fitting a muzzle brake to help stop barrel climb during rapid fire that would seem a good reason to fit one to me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 Hi all I like the look of braked shotguns but i am not 100% convinced that they are all that effective. me and spas12 have just started making our own muzzle brakes and if successfull and they give and felt reduction in recoil/muzzle climb we will post here , but hey dont hold your breath too long..........theyre home made after all lol all the best assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 1, 2004 Report Share Posted May 1, 2004 jkmccoy Good info on cutts compensator. I have only seen this in parts catalouges and it looks like a lot of parts! Ported chokes for shot are for relieving the pressure from the rear of the shot cup to allow cup to open and seperate cleanly. Looks like a newer teck version of another older idea! Another reason i mentioned the cutts is that it looks like a 12ga. version of a military muzzle break to me and some folks are more into what their gun LOOKS like also i wonder if the chokes migh be compatible with SAIGA it looked like cutts was external also. Anyone have access to both for comparison? (inquireing minds want to know!) G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tygrstryp 0 Posted May 21, 2004 Report Share Posted May 21, 2004 (edited) After looking at some pics of the Russians fighting in Chechnya, I have noticed all their special forces units that use Saiga shotguns have muzzle brakes on them. There must be some reason for this. The muzzle brakes must be effective some how, otherwise they would not waste time/money putting them on the gun. If you've ever shot slugs out of your Saiga (I have), you'll want that muzzle brake! Edited May 22, 2004 by tygrstryp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
twinhairdryers 2 Posted May 31, 2004 Report Share Posted May 31, 2004 I've seen the tacticle versions of the Saiga for LEO also, and many have muzzle breaks. Can't we all just get along and quit debating and have someone come up with a source. Then, those that actually spend the money to get them can in the worst case be rediculed by those that claim they are worthless? please sell one. thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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