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Koliadko

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I've got lasers and tritium sites. Guess which is easier to see.

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I imagine lasers. But I would get my panties in a bunch and panic, and probably be trembling from adrenaline, so for me, I think I would stick to tritium. Some of them are pretty bright, also. (different colors, etc) Whatever you choose, you should practice with it until you feel comfortable with it. Even at low light conditions and night. Do you ever have those stupid dreams where you are trying to defend your self, and the gun won't go off? That's me. I need stuff as simple as a rock. That's just me, though.

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I'd concentrate on drawing point shooting the LCP as that is what it was intended to do with it. The laser is fine as long as you have time to activate it when you need it although chances are in a self defense situation you won't have time. I don't think there is any need for exernal safeties or lasers to have to mess with on a defensive pistol. When I carry my LC9, the safety is off, the trigger pull is enough safety. I don't use lasers. I don't want to have to play find the dot in a defensive situation either. I like it simple as well, front sight, squeeze.

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I have to agree with MT Predeator and I would add that I practice quick draws at home with out firing, I just see how quickly I can draw on a target. At the range I practice 3 round strings as others have suggested through both of these drills I can put three shots in a 6-8 inch target at 25 feet in under 5 to 6 seconds. Probably not going to set any records with this but it is a good start. I think this is especially important when you consider the stress level you would be under IF you actually have to draw on someone. I have faced a criminal and stoped them at the door without firing a shot, and I can tell you it took a couple of hours before I felt "normal" again.

OH and congratulations on your carry permit!

Edited by misterT

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I'd also highly recommend getting used to firing at closer ranges than 25'. I like the other suggestions of two/three shot strings especially with a .380. You encounter some idiot sniffing shit like bath salts and yer gonna need em.

 

I load my mags with 3-4-5 whatever rounds and mix them up so that I can't count em, then fire on the move and do the fastest mag swaps I can. Dropping the mags straight into the dirt. I keep most of my training under 20' since that is where I feel I'll most likely be in a firefight.

 

I'm currently looking into tactical pistol and three gun shoots here. Not so I can win or even place. But for more training and having fun doing it. I'm sure once I've done it my competitive nature will kick in though.bad_egg.gif

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I'd also highly recommend getting used to firing at closer ranges than 25'. I like the other suggestions of two/three shot strings especially with a .380. You encounter some idiot sniffing shit like bath salts and yer gonna need em.

 

I load my mags with 3-4-5 whatever rounds and mix them up so that I can't count em, then fire on the move and do the fastest mag swaps I can. Dropping the mags straight into the dirt. I keep most of my training under 20' since that is where I feel I'll most likely be in a firefight.

 

I'm currently looking into tactical pistol and three gun shoots here. Not so I can win or even place. But for more training and having fun doing it. I'm sure once I've done it my competitive nature will kick in though.bad_egg.gif

 

Agreed... I rarely practice beyond that and I almost always incorporate movement. Drawing stationary, then moving and shooting, or both drawing and shooting on the move. Moving and shooting is a bitch, but I think it's one of the keys to surviving in a gun fight. You should pretty much always be moving if for no other reason than to be harder to hit... but ideally getting your ass to cover and/or putting distance between yourself and the threat.

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I'd also highly recommend getting used to firing at closer ranges than 25'. I like the other suggestions of two/three shot strings especially with a .380. You encounter some idiot sniffing shit like bath salts and yer gonna need em.

 

I load my mags with 3-4-5 whatever rounds and mix them up so that I can't count em, then fire on the move and do the fastest mag swaps I can. Dropping the mags straight into the dirt. I keep most of my training under 20' since that is where I feel I'll most likely be in a firefight.

 

I'm currently looking into tactical pistol and three gun shoots here. Not so I can win or even place. But for more training and having fun doing it. I'm sure once I've done it my competitive nature will kick in though.bad_egg.gif

 

Agreed... I rarely practice beyond that and I almost always incorporate movement. Drawing stationary, then moving and shooting, or both drawing and shooting on the move. Moving and shooting is a bitch, but I think it's one of the keys to surviving in a gun fight. You should pretty much always be moving if for no other reason than to be harder to hit... but ideally getting your ass to cover and/or putting distance between yourself and the threat.

The first time my son and I were doing moving, shooting, taking cover, and mag swap all at once pretty much kicked both of our asses and we weren't even in trouble. That's when I realized static shooting is not the way to train for EDC. When I get there I admit that I will warm up a little standing still. Everything else is on the move. Even if it's just a slow movement. You need to pull your weapon in a firefight and you'd best be prepared to move should you want to emerge the victor.

 

Mag swaps are a must for me as well. My G30 will hold eleven. Not covinced that that's enough for multiple targets. A guy here in CO had to fire 13 to hold off three guys from a robbery. Mind you, that should I ever have to engage someone, I preparing myself for multiple shots. From the research I've done, people that are whacked out on shit take more than one round no matter what caliber, even hitting vital organs, to stop them from doing bad things to you. I can't remember that exact stats, but have someone run at you from 20' away and try and draw (a toy gun) and see how that goes for you. It'll wake your ass up in a heartbeat that all the gadgets in the world aren't going to do you any better than good training and reflex type skills.

 

I haven't been carrying extra mags, like I should. If I were carrying a gun with any less capacity it would be a must for me. I should be anyhow dammit...

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I'd concentrate on drawing point shooting the LCP as that is what it was intended to do with it. The laser is fine as long as you have time to activate it when you need it although chances are in a self defense situation you won't have time. I don't think there is any need for exernal safeties or lasers to have to mess with on a defensive pistol. When I carry my LC9, the safety is off, the trigger pull is enough safety. I don't use lasers. I don't want to have to play find the dot in a defensive situation either. I like it simple as well, front sight, squeeze.

 

 

The whole point of a CTC laser is that it doesn't take extra steps to activate... Just grabbing the gun turns it on. Have you tried one?

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I did and didn't like it. I want to be in full control of any 'extras' on my weapon. That said, it is totally up to anyone if they want a laser at all, what kind of laser they decide to use, or if they do or don't prefer one. I went ahead and bought Racegal the Laserlyte one for her new toy, for Valentines Day (our anniversary) and we will see how it does. I honestly believe it is a much better choice than the CT. We'll see. If she doesn't like it then I'll make it work on my G 17.

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It's pretty obvious whatever she chooses,(or doesn't choose) she will put the time into to be good with it. That's what counts.

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I had the Crimson trace and pinki extension on mine

 

Fit perfectly in watch pocket of my jeans.....no holster needed.....buried the trigger

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It's pretty obvious whatever she chooses,(or doesn't choose) she will put the time into to be good with it. That's what counts.

 

 

This is definitely true. A couple of her finest qualities are her intelligence, and blind determination do do well at whatever she takes on.

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I'd concentrate on drawing point shooting the LCP as that is what it was intended to do with it. The laser is fine as long as you have time to activate it when you need it although chances are in a self defense situation you won't have time. I don't think there is any need for exernal safeties or lasers to have to mess with on a defensive pistol. When I carry my LC9, the safety is off, the trigger pull is enough safety. I don't use lasers. I don't want to have to play find the dot in a defensive situation either. I like it simple as well, front sight, squeeze.

 

 

The whole point of a CTC laser is that it doesn't take extra steps to activate... Just grabbing the gun turns it on. Have you tried one?

Yes, I have tried one as well as the Lasermax and an Aerotech conversion on a Glock. In my opinion, trying to find the dot instead of concentrating on the front sight takes away from the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship. I don't like to throw in any extra BS steps if the shot really does count. What happens if your battery just died and you have to place a critical shot? Then your brain is going to have to revert to the basics which may slow you down when time is of the essence. If you don't train to use both and be able to go into remedial action for when the laser goes tits up, it may be a fatal mistake. I'll stay with concentrating on my front sight instead of searching for a dot on the target.

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IMO a laser is just a novelty item that should be used mainly as a practice tool. Use it when dry firing the weapon inside the house, to attain proper trigger control. Use it on the range as a tool to train your muscle memory to draw and aquire your target quickly. Once you have trained enough, and have built these skills to where they are second nature, then you don't even need the laser. That's the point when you really begin to hone your skills using only the front sight, or "feeling" the center line of the bore as if it were an extension of your hand / arm. In quick target acquisition (draw and fire) situations, I was taught to basically imagine the barrel was the pointer finger of my hand. It is automatic in most people, to be able to instantly point your finger directly at someone or something, without thinking at all. But when really going for absolute accuracy in target practice, slowing down and using the sights is enjoyable and helpful.

The most effective part of a laser other than a practice tool, is it's psychological effect on the perp. BG sees red or green dot on his chest = BG stops whatever threatening thing he may be doing (in a situation where you actually have that much time. To me though, I would much rather choose when I did and did not want it turned on.

Then lastly, something that was shared with me recently by a local gunshop owner who has one on his carry pistol. I had said that I didn't like the CT because it was distracting to look at while I was trying to concentrate on my sights. He said something I had never heard before. What he was trained to do was, not even look at the sights, or even extend the weapon away from the body. His preferred method is to keep the weapon close to the chest, with a firm grip completely securing the weapon. Then just turning the body and only using the laser to get on target. Makes sense that you would have a more firm, steady grip that way, but I personally don't think I'd want to have the muzzle flash that close to my face and body. Just thought I'd share that since I never heard it before...

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I'll stick with muscle memory, it never runs out of batteries and does not get out of alignment. The 380 is more of a close and engage any way IMHO.

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I hear you on the budget.

 

Have you considered a wallet style holster like this one?http://www.desantisholster.com/store/SEARCH-BY-GUN-MANUFACTURER/RUGER/LCP-380CAL/POCKET-HOLSTERS/Super-Fly This can be in your jacket or jeans pocket every day and just look like a wallet or make up compact in outline.

 

Most people end up finding ankle holsters to be impractical, un comfortable, etc. Plus if you need to run or fight, do you really want to be doubled over fiddling with your ankle while you do so? It would be like trying tie your shoes while walking.

I really don't consider carrying on my person a valid option considering my size and the fact I don't like wearing baggy clothes. I've used my coat which is fine as long as it's cool but I live in the south so that's not an option much longer. I have a purse but really hate having to carry something like that all the time so my last option was ankle. If anyone has a better one, I'm all ears.....

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Interesting debate about lasers. I personally plan on practicing with and without it until I am completely comfortable with it either way. It will be a part of me. If it can't go with me then I won't go unless the law says I have to.

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You will see the main advantage of any laser after dusk. MT was talking about having to look for the dot. That might be true in day, but at night, the dot draws your eyes. I find that I have to look for tritium sights, and if I move from one level of lighting to another, it takes a couple seconds before I can find the tritium. I like tritium too, in fact I am looking to order some vials to custom install in sites on a few guns between myself and family. I don't want to be dependent on the lasers either (or any accessory), but it is a clear aid. You focus on your target looking through the sights and the front sight appears to have a halo around it on the target. It causes your eyes to focus on your target with your front sight in partial focus instead of the other way round. With the green laser on my S12 shooting plates or clays on the hillside, this effect works in bright daylight too, and I find it speeds up my target acquisition I don't look for the dot, but it gives me a visual feed back any time my sights go out of alignment with my eyes. (when they are in line, the dot makes that 'halo' around my front sight on the target. When they are mis-aligned the halo goes away and I see a dot off to the side of my front sight.) I suppose if I were trying to hip fire with the laser I would have to 'look for the dot' and that would be slow and distracting.

 

I guess my point is that I don't disagree with all the above statements about learning reflexive sight alignment, point shooting or other effective techniques along those lines. What I am saying is that the laser amplifies all those skills. If you are fast with those techniques, without the laser, adding the laser in low light makes you faster yet.

 

And as your husband said, the ability to de-escalate a bad situation. They did some data mining on cop incidents involving lasers and statistically they were much less likely to have to fire with than without. When they did fire, they fired less shots and were placing them in vital areas much more frequently. I used to have the studies saved, but that was a couple computers ago.

 

Another carry option worth considering is a cross breed mini-tuck or similar. Those are known to be low profile and comfortable with just about any clothing. If I had to carry in the steamy south, I would get horsehide and a leather punch and perforate the heck out of it for good measure.

Edited by GunFun

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I hear you on the budget.

 

Have you considered a wallet style holster like this one?http://www.desantisholster.com/store/SEARCH-BY-GUN-MANUFACTURER/RUGER/LCP-380CAL/POCKET-HOLSTERS/Super-Fly This can be in your jacket or jeans pocket every day and just look like a wallet or make up compact in outline.

 

Most people end up finding ankle holsters to be impractical, un comfortable, etc. Plus if you need to run or fight, do you really want to be doubled over fiddling with your ankle while you do so? It would be like trying tie your shoes while walking.

I really don't consider carrying on my person a valid option considering my size and the fact I don't like wearing baggy clothes. I've used my coat which is fine as long as it's cool but I live in the south so that's not an option much longer. I have a purse but really hate having to carry something like that all the time so my last option was ankle. If anyone has a better one, I'm all ears.....

 

An interesting lady (or at least lady-dressing) specific holster is the flashbang:

 

flashbang71.jpg

 

I also highly recommend the clip-less Remora holsters. They can go in a pocket or anywhere in your waistband at any angle so its really easy to find a comfortable spot.

 

Remora_No_Clip_IWB_Holster_review_demo.j

 

I think you'll find that if you try it, that little LCP will disappear with the right holster almost regardless of how you dress. Faliaphotography's channel (the woman in the picture above) has a lot of really good videos about CCW for ladies.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogGBPVk5GQk&feature=youtu.be

Edited by Risky

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There are very good allegories above, both pro and con. One thing about tritium, if you go that route, absolutely DO NOT go with front and rear sights. Only go with the front sights. Even different colored ones. You cannot believe how easy it is to accidentely "line up" the sights and be off, by this I mean putting the front sight on one side or the other of the rear sights. Keep your stock rear sights, and ignore them, and only pay attention to the front sight. I found this out on my AR-15 when I got tritium for the front and rear. You might think that you have everything all lined up - but in reality can be off by a whole sight. You absolutely cannot tell, esp. in a high awareness situation, when you are pumped up. ONLY get the front sight..

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Not to argue, but will this be a problem with handgun? I mean, with an AR, presumably, you have about 16" to pivot, meaning it would be easy to line up the sights wrong; however, for a handgun, the distance being between 3-7 inches usually, it wouldn't happen, because the gun would be so unnaturally pointed away from the target you'd know it.

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That's easily solved with a 'straight eight' or 'dot the i' setups like XS sights. It's impossible to mix those up.

 

Funny you should mention the dot the i pattern. I found a source for tritium vials and that was my plan for the Iz 108 rail/ AR tritium front in a dinzag sight block combo I've got going. I might have to paint over the back dot to make it dimmer though.

 

General guides suggest keeping the front sight brighter than back sights so that it draws focus. Also being further from your eyes, it can be hard to see a tritium front sight if all are the same strength.

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Get her the crimson trace laser for it. I talked my friend into that setup, and it is a great shooter, and much faster in dusky light. I can't say I like the trigger on that gun but I have been eyeing one for a couple years now.

 

PS, we can see that she shoots well slowly.

 

Since this is a carry gun, I wanna see how fast she can put two well placed shots each on 3 targets from about 25 feet from draw. That's what a gun like this is really for.

i have been biased against lasers for awhile. read somehting once that said folks spend too much time looking for the dot. oh man, and ya uppin the ante as well!

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IMO a laser is just a novelty item that should be used mainly as a practice tool. Use it when dry firing the weapon inside the house, to attain proper trigger control. Use it on the range as a tool to train your muscle memory to draw and aquire your target quickly. Once you have trained enough, and have built these skills to where they are second nature, then you don't even need the laser. That's the point when you really begin to hone your skills using only the front sight, or "feeling" the center line of the bore as if it were an extension of your hand / arm. In quick target acquisition (draw and fire) situations, I was taught to basically imagine the barrel was the pointer finger of my hand. It is automatic in most people, to be able to instantly point your finger directly at someone or something, without thinking at all. But when really going for absolute accuracy in target practice, slowing down and using the sights is enjoyable and helpful.

The most effective part of a laser other than a practice tool, is it's psychological effect on the perp. BG sees red or green dot on his chest = BG stops whatever threatening thing he may be doing (in a situation where you actually have that much time. To me though, I would much rather choose when I did and did not want it turned on.

Then lastly, something that was shared with me recently by a local gunshop owner who has one on his carry pistol. I had said that I didn't like the CT because it was distracting to look at while I was trying to concentrate on my sights. He said something I had never heard before. What he was trained to do was, not even look at the sights, or even extend the weapon away from the body. His preferred method is to keep the weapon close to the chest, with a firm grip completely securing the weapon. Then just turning the body and only using the laser to get on target. Makes sense that you would have a more firm, steady grip that way, but I personally don't think I'd want to have the muzzle flash that close to my face and body. Just thought I'd share that since I never heard it before...

The only hand gun that I have found, in my very limited experience, that is so ergonomically perfect, is the German Luger. It really, really is, an extension of your body. It just feels "so" perfect. My Glocks have been just fine. 1911 single stack don't fit my hands and wobble. The Luger is just perfect. Not very practicle, though.

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Yes for a "natural" pointer the Glock has it all over the 1911 in more than just my opinion... Gaston Glock designed it that way, and that is why so many new pistol shooters (Racegal included) find the glock so easy to put on target. My G-17 was the first pistol she ever shot, and was an immediate natural with it.... at least after that first shot...lol nothing.gif

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=pAl0vwfI_xAC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=Gaston+Glock+designed+the+grip+angle&source=bl&ots=PjiqV6Y91l&sig=vCC31S3PeagxRrNVes-g4EbBHgY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pwQnUc_BE6iY2wXsrIHoAQ&ved=0CFwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Gaston%20Glock%20designed%20the%20grip%20angle&f=false

 

Edit to add... OMG I've always wanted a real Luger! When I was a kid in the 70's I had a really sweet Luger blank pistol that saw much action in our "wars in the woods''...lol! Wish I still had that even...

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Mine is a Mitchell Arms Stainless with walnut grips. I bought it years, and years ago. Maybe 20 rounds thru it - but it sure feels comfortable! lol. My Glock 20 was bullseyes out of the box. Gaston was a true genius, in the design of this gun, no matter what the naysayers say. I still have a nice promotional advertisement when it first came out that shows them dropping it in mud, freezing it in a block of ice and dropping it 300 feet and no malfunctions.(9mm). No one liked it back then because it was plastic. lol. Gov was all upset because it could be easily smuggled onto an airplane because it was "all plastic". 33 parts, including the magazine. Brilliant. Sorry, off topic.

Edited by coronet

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Yes for a "natural" pointer the Glock has it all over the 1911 in more than just my opinion... Gaston Glock designed it that way, and that is why so many new pistol shooters (Racegal included) find the glock so easy to put on target. My G-17 was the first pistol she ever shot, and was an immediate natural with it.... at least after that first shot...lol nothing.gif

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=pAl0vwfI_xAC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=Gaston+Glock+designed+the+grip+angle&source=bl&ots=PjiqV6Y91l&sig=vCC31S3PeagxRrNVes-g4EbBHgY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=pwQnUc_BE6iY2wXsrIHoAQ&ved=0CFwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Gaston%20Glock%20designed%20the%20grip%20angle&f=false

 

Edit to add... OMG I've always wanted a real Luger! When I was a kid in the 70's I had a really sweet Luger blank pistol that saw much action in our "wars in the woods''...lol! Wish I still had that even...

 

 

My uncle in the midwest had a friend who owned a bunch of resturants or something. A couple years ago the friend died and left my uncle a 70s bentley and a collection of about a hundred lugers. I understand some of them were appraised in money that would buy new porsches. And I haven't even gotten to handle them because I live thousands of miles away. --sniffle-- I don't think my uncle is even interested in guns.

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