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"My Moscow based Saiga: Peculiarities of the Russian National guns

Saiga in Russia

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#31 LtDan

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:58 AM

Vinni 83, Karasho, dobro pushka



#32 FLTF3

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 07:39 PM

Easy upgrade kit for Saiga / AK
 
 
The main disadvantage of ergonomics Kalashnikov called three aspects:
- short butt
- too "thin" pistol grip
- and complete lack of Picatinny rails
 
To remove these shortcomings:
 standart buttplate changed to the new, more longer
 standart pistol grip changed to the new, more convenient
 standart handguard changed to the new, with Picatinny rails

 
For this we need : rubber buffer "Izhmash" (it does not interfere with the folding butt) of Saiga 030,  pistol grip "STK" (with a set of tools instead compartment in the butt) &  tactical handguard "Izhmash" with 2 Picatinny rails, which, thanks to its shape can be easy to hold, even with bare hands.
 
To install all these additional parts, we need 10 minutes of time and a screwdriver.
The weight and center of gravity weapons almost not change ...
 
 
attachicon.gifIMG_2426.JPG

 

Nice! I've seen the rubber buttstock pads for increasing the LOP on Warsaw stocks (not my preferred method, but I have used it before), however, that's the first time I've seen that tactical handguard from Izhmash. Now that's something I'd LOVE to add to my upcoming AK-103 clone project if I could (or perhaps can) locate one on this side of the pond.

 

Thanks for sharing...you're giving me some awesome ideas


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#33 smeeg

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

Please post detailed pictures of that 30rnd
Saiga .223 magazine we can't get those here

#34 vinni83

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

 Please post detailed pictures of that 30rnd
Saiga .223 magazine we can't get those here

 

Attached File  item1.jpg   79.56KB   5 downloads

Attached File  item2.jpg   55.19KB   4 downloads

 

This magazine only from Saiga, by Kalashnikov (for Ak-101) they look a bit different. Because Saiga have a modified scheme is chambering rounds.

 

 

What you need additional photos ???


Edited by vinni83, 20 February 2013 - 04:41 PM.

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#35 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

Please post detailed pictures of that 30rnd
Saiga .223 magazine we can't get those here

 

attachicon.gifitem1.jpg

attachicon.gifitem2.jpg

 

What you need additional photos ???

 

No, we need those mags HERE!


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#36 vinni83

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:22 PM

Nice! I've seen the rubber buttstock pads for increasing the LOP on Warsaw stocks (not my preferred method, but I have used it before), however, that's the first time I've seen that tactical handguard from Izhmash. Now that's something I'd LOVE to add to my upcoming AK-103 clone project if I could (or perhaps can) locate one on this side of the pond.

 

Thanks for sharing...you're giving me some awesome ideas

 

It handguard  is very rare to buy in Russia, Izhmash very reluctant sells such things civil users.

Handguard from the army Ak-103-3 (has a heat shield)  buy even more difficult.

 

Attached File  IMG_2778.JPG   67.02KB   9 downloads

 

Attached File  IMG_2785.JPG   100.9KB   12 downloads

 

 

I could change with you, in this handguard on something from Magpul, but I'm afraid it will not pass in the mail.

 

 

No, we need those mags HERE!

 

 

This is very bad that you no have them . They are a very high quality​​, much better than for example Tapko.

 

 


Edited by vinni83, 20 February 2013 - 04:38 PM.

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#37 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

You know, bashing Tapco was quite fashionable (and so deserved) in the past; however, my matryoshka-wobbly .223 Galil (and so marketed as "AK") mags never ever failed.

 

My 5.45 Tapco mags are quite a performers and, unlike above, are very good fit.

I wouldn't throw them under T-90 or late BTR, but they are not far behind the OEM "Bakelites".

Zero failures to the date and holding well.

 

I'd say, let's get Magpul on board for .223 AK polymer mags.

How 'bout: "KMAG"?


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#38 vinni83

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:01 PM

Modifications Saiga 308.

 

 

In addition to standard models of hunting rifles, Izhmash produces guns in the design of AK and SVD.

 

Attached File  saiga-308-1.jpg   30.46KB   1 downloads

 

Model with upgraded metal frame buttstock Ak & dot sight "Kobra"

 

Attached File  4040778.jpg   66.93KB   1 downloads

 

These models can be equipped with the butts of SVDs and tactical handguard.

 

Attached File  6437710.jpg   66.79KB   1 downloads

 

Saiga .308 SVD can be have plastic or wood handguard & pistol grip.

 

Attached File  01-384-1.jpg   22.42KB   4 downloadsAttached File  4699498.jpg   18.18KB   4 downloads

 

There are short models  type  Ak- 102/105

 

Attached File  761635.jpg   99.38KB   3 downloads

Attached File  6380355.jpg   166.28KB   3 downloads

 

One of the best sights for a Saiga 308 is "Kashtan" (NPZ)

 

Attached File   308 (4).jpg   97.67KB   3 downloads

Attached File  4435969.jpg   131.26KB   2 downloads

 

 

 

 


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#39 vinni83

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 07:13 AM

You know, bashing Tapco was quite fashionable (and so deserved) in the past; however, my matryoshka-wobbly .223 Galil (and so marketed as "AK") mags never ever failed.

 

My 5.45 Tapco mags are quite a performers and, unlike above, are very good fit.

I wouldn't throw them under T-90 or late BTR, but they are not far behind the OEM "Bakelites".

Zero failures to the date and holding well.

 

I'd say, let's get Magpul on board for .223 AK polymer mags.

How 'bout: "KMAG"?


I'll be honest, i am do not really like Tapco parts,  the quality of plastic and reliability, resemble cheap products  made ​​in China. This is my personal opinion.

 

With magazine KMAG I not used, so I can not compare them.


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#40 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:00 AM

I don't want to sound like Tapco rep (I'm not; nor I'm big fan of), but trying to be fair.

I'm not sure which Tapco parts made their way to Russia, but each and every part I had and used in the past was made in USA.

 

You might be familiar with our 922r.

In order to comply, we HAVE to use US-made parts to meet minimum parts count in our conversion process.

Even my last .223 Saiga conversion (with AR magwell) arrived with US-made Tapco pistol grip and stock.

I've replaced them with Hogue PG and Magpul MOE stock because of personal preference, and not because there was anything wrong with either part.

They are good, budget-priced parts.

And thinking that someone with little cash on hand can get decent (US-made) buttstock for $30-40 (including their folding model), instead of shelling out over $120 (in my case), makes it appealing.

Sure, I wouldn't attempt breaching the door with Tapco folder, but then, anyone with door breaching desire should join Army or Marines, and let Uncle Sam pick up the tab for GI stuff.

(Well... most of the time, unless you're into Magpul, Troybuilt, Lancer, etc).

 

Speaking of KMAG: it's a joke.

There is no such thing (at least, I'm not aware of).

Magpul is famous for making PMAG, AR15/M4 compatible magazines, famous for their reliability.

I've thrown "KMAG" in, hoping to see Magpul entering AK/Saiga field someday.

Therefore, "K" in KMAG would stand for "Kalasnikov".

Wishful thinking...


Edited by Sgt. Raven, 21 February 2013 - 11:02 AM.

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#41 vinni83

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 02:22 PM

I understand your joke about PMAG. rolleyes.gif
  
Why the original magazine is better Tapco - ?

They are lighter by 10%
They are made of very quality (& pleasant to the touch)  material - glass-filled nylon with metal inserts.

 Although on the surface there is no ribs it is not slippery, but they are less likely to get stuck in a vest pocket or injure hands arrow.
 
As for the quality of parts Tapko (made in USA) that I used:
 butt  T-6  (STK07160BLACK ),  handguard (STK07320BLACK ) ,  magazine 7.62 (MAG0630 BLACK) - i was not happy with them.

Perhaps in the U.S. at low prices, is acceptable, but given the price of delivery to Russia, they cease to represent  interest.

I choose only the highest quality items for their weapons, it has no right to disappoint me in difficult times.
My gun - my lives. excl.png

 

rolleyes.gif


Edited by vinni83, 21 February 2013 - 02:54 PM.

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#42 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

 

My gun - my lives. excl.png

 

032.gif

My life as well:

Attached File  PMAG.jpg   8.82KB   3 downloads

 

P.S. I wish we could get Izhevsk OEM .223 mags here.

If they're as good as Saiga OEM 10-rounders, they're "Green Light GO" in my book.

And I have no reason to doubt their quality.

 

Do you have SGM (formerly Surefire) mags in Russia?

Have you tried them? What do you think?

 

P.P.S. Do you have the means and interest of setting up your own store and start selling us Russian goodies? cool.png


Edited by Sgt. Raven, 21 February 2013 - 04:07 PM.

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#43 vinni83

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 05:40 PM

Sgt. Raven  

 

I not used Surefire mags.

 

Actually I want to explain about the magazine, we have by law to magazine more than 10 are not allowed. Magazine foreign production in our country are not popular. They are expensive, they are hard to buy, and they are no better than the original.
I'm not saying that "the original magazine - best  in the world", but they are very reliable, familiar to most people who served in the army  and are available at any gun shop.

Saiga 12 to some people try to set the drums (made in USA). It is for us in Russia - exotic.

 My friend bought drum a few years ago, but to make it work properly, he could not.

 

About the sale of spare parts.

I'm ready to do it, but I'm afraid that the customs and the postal service can not miss such a parcel across the border.
Under Russian law, any part of the guns shipment by mail is prohibited. Inside Russia is no one checks - "strictness of law in Russia is compensated not necessarily their performance".  How it works in relation to send abroad, I do not know.

But we can try.


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#44 Chaingun81

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:31 AM

Sgt. Raven  

 

I not used Surefire mags.

 

Actually I want to explain about the magazine, we have by law to magazine more than 10 are not allowed. Magazine foreign production in our country are not popular. They are expensive, they are hard to buy, and they are no better than the original.
I'm not saying that "the original magazine - best  in the world", but they are very reliable, familiar to most people who served in the army  and are available at any gun shop.

Saiga 12 to some people try to set the drums (made in USA). It is for us in Russia - exotic.

 My friend bought drum a few years ago, but to make it work properly, he could not.

 

About the sale of spare parts.

I'm ready to do it, but I'm afraid that the customs and the postal service can not miss such a parcel across the border.
Under Russian law, any part of the guns shipment by mail is prohibited. Inside Russia is no one checks - "strictness of law in Russia is compensated not necessarily their performance".  How it works in relation to send abroad, I do not know.

But we can try.

 

Vinni, I really enjoyed reading this thread - thanks for posting your pictures and sharing the info. I'm also a Russian from Moscow, but I live in the US and I also thought about brining or maling some non-essential parts (magazines, secondary accessories, etc.) but I'm afraid that risk may be too high.

 

There was a story a few years ago when an American religiouis missionary came to Russia on a work trip and brought one of his Russian colleagues a 20 round box of some hunting ammo as a gift. The box was discovered at customs in the Russian airport and poor guy was thrown in jail and spent some time there before embassy could bail him out.

 

Ridiculous, but tragic. Строгость законов компенсируется необязательностью их исполнения в РФ, но может иметь весьма негативные последствия на границе...



#45 Chaingun81

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:39 AM

You know, bashing Tapco was quite fashionable (and so deserved) in the past; however, my matryoshka-wobbly .223 Galil (and so marketed as "AK") mags never ever failed.

 

My 5.45 Tapco mags are quite a performers and, unlike above, are very good fit.

I wouldn't throw them under T-90 or late BTR, but they are not far behind the OEM "Bakelites".

Zero failures to the date and holding well.

 

I'd say, let's get Magpul on board for .223 AK polymer mags.

How 'bout: "KMAG"?

 

Tapco may have a decent quality now, but they are still damn fugly, especially on AKs. Although with current availability, beggers can't be choosers...



Nice! I've seen the rubber buttstock pads for increasing the LOP on Warsaw stocks (not my preferred method, but I have used it before), however, that's the first time I've seen that tactical handguard from Izhmash. Now that's something I'd LOVE to add to my upcoming AK-103 clone project if I could (or perhaps can) locate one on this side of the pond.

 

Thanks for sharing...you're giving me some awesome ideas

 

It handguard  is very rare to buy in Russia, Izhmash very reluctant sells such things civil users.

Handguard from the army Ak-103-3 (has a heat shield)  buy even more difficult.

 

attachicon.gifIMG_2778.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_2785.JPG

 

 

I could change with you, in this handguard on something from Magpul, but I'm afraid it will not pass in the mail.

 

 

No, we need those mags HERE!

 

 

This is very bad that you no have them . They are a very high quality​​, much better than for example Tapko.

 

 

I love this handguard. How much does it cost in Russia? Is it available for sale in retail (Кольчуга, Охотник, Сплав и тд) or only through "connections"?



#46 Chaingun81

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:47 AM

Let's stay on topic, Partners.

After all, we're all "Brothers-in-Saigas" here.

 

Two questions for vinni83:

1) What about Tigr and Vepr (and so their conversions)?

2) Russian "Gun Control": is it a Federal regulation or regional?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Nearly all laws in Russia are Federal. Very centralized country. This makes it nearly impossible for private citizens to have any influence over them. In the US, we should keep Federal laws to the minimum - trust me, having come from that part of he world, I can testify first hand that growth of Federal government is inherently evil.


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#47 Chaingun81

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 05:59 AM

Talk a little about the modern Russian guns legislation.

 

We have very strict laws in terms of tuning firearms. Barrel, receiver, bolt, you can not change. For example you can not put a muzzle brake at home (you can not make a thread on the barrel), only in a licensed shop with police permission.
You can not have a length weapons of less than 800 mm . So my Saiga stock folded can not shoot. But if you do not drill or cut, you can change the the hand guard or grip or butt (stock folded it should not shoot ).


Created guns can only weapons armory.
Conversions hunting Saiga in Kalasnikov is prohibited even in a licensed shop.
But AKM converted into a hunting rifle (removed automatic firing mode) can be purchased at any guns store for $ 500.

In order to get permission for the rifle is first necessary to have five years of the shotgun. And to be a law-abiding citizen.

 

Equip itself cartridges for rifles is also prohibited.

 

Russian weapons legislation is very complex and intricate.


Even our police officers in it confused. blink.png

 

Eg replacement of the butt stock is not allowed & nor prohibited.rolleyes.gif

 

Silencers you can not use on the weapon, but they can be bought and sold.naaaa.gif

 

All rifles (AKM, SVD, SKS) are recorded as hunting weapons, even a new Saiga 9 * 19 (Vityaz) will also be hunting carbine.

 

For hunting weapons can not be installed military sights, but Izhmash sells SVD (Tiger) with sight PSO. 000.gif

 

I'm confused - so you cannot get a Saiga converted to AK-style, but you can get AKM converted to semi-auto mode? What's the difference?

 

Can you still buy Tigr/SVD in Russia? How much do they cost? I would love to have one, but these have completely dried up here...



#48 Chaingun81

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 06:04 AM

O yes, Russian women - wonderfully beautiful in really cool.png
 
 
attachicon.gif6751032.jpgattachicon.gif6481270.jpgattachicon.gif4012949.jpg
attachicon.gif2011-11-13 14_39_43.jpg=14_39_43.jpgattachicon.gif1214565.jpg
attachicon.gif4074340.jpg
attachicon.gifuntitled.jpg
attachicon.gif13699.jpg


attachicon.gif118131534.jpg 
 
 
Sgt. Raven -1&2 photo this is may be walnut or other wood (optional) , others photo - lacquered plywood.
 
I must say that a lot of choices of wood, each master likes to make their own versions.

 

Oh yeah. Makes me feel homesick! 015.gif



#49 vinni83

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:43 AM

Hello  Chaingun81

 

"Vinni, I really enjoyed reading this thread - thanks for posting your pictures and sharing the info. I'm also a Russian from Moscow, but I live in the US and I also thought about brining or maling some non-essential parts (magazines, secondary accessories, etc.) but I'm afraid that risk may be too high."

 

Unlawful possession of ammunition for the weapons is a very serious offense. But for example the mailing forearm is a violation of only of internal rules Russian Post.
No punishment except for refusal to provide postal services it will not lead.

 

"I love this handguard. How much does it cost in Russia? Is it available for sale in retail (Кольчуга, Охотник, Сплав и тд) or only through "connections"?"

 

Only through "connections".  Izhmash sometimes puts them on the finished products, to quickly sell them.

 

"Nearly all laws in Russia are Federal. Very centralized country. This makes it nearly impossible for private citizens to have any influence over them. In the US, we should keep Federal laws to the minimum - trust me, having come from that part of he world, I can testify first hand that growth of Federal government is inherently evil."

 

+1

 

 

"I'm confused - so you cannot get a Saiga converted to AK-style, but you can get AKM converted to semi-auto mode? What's the difference?"

 

We can buy Ak a converted in factory, but can not converted out hunting Saiga kind of combat Ak. Illegally so change weapon.

 

"Can you still buy Tigr/SVD in Russia? How much do they cost? I would love to have one, but these have completely dried up here..."

 

Yes. Tiger/SVD price 1200-2500$ depending on version, most expensive SVD-s type & and converted of the Soviet army rifles


He Is Russian. It  explains a lot...

 


#50 vinni83

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:00 AM

Oh yeah. Makes me feel homesick! 015.gif

 

 

As they say in Germany - Ja, ja,  das ist fantastisch ... cool.png 


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#51 vinni83

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:50 AM

I congratulate you with the day of the Soviet Army and Navy. big_smile.gif haha.gif horror.gif

avtomat-v-tsvetnoi-suvenirnoi-korobke-3-


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#52 Sgt. Raven

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

I congratulate you with the day of the Soviet Army and Navy. big_smile.gif haha.gif horror.gif

 

Attached File  CCCP Feb-23.jpg   35.24KB   0 downloads


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#53 vinni83

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 12:52 PM

When I was 7, my father (on February 23) presented this postcard at work ... I remember it well.rolleyes.gif
 


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#54 Dad2142Dad

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

I congratulate you with the day of the Soviet Army and Navy. big_smile.gif haha.gif horror.gif

avtomat-v-tsvetnoi-suvenirnoi-korobke-3-

 

 

What are the rules for importing this?



#55 vinni83

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

I congratulate you with the day of the Soviet Army and Navy. big_smile.gif haha.gif horror.gif

 

 

 

What are the rules for importing this?

 

I do not know about the existence of such rules. wink.png


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#56 vinni83

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 04:32 PM

Modifications Saiga .410

 


Saiga .410 K01/02

 

 

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Saiga .410 K 02  & PSO  ( AKS-74 design )

 


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Saiga .410 K 02 modified with gun parts STK

 


Saiga .410 K03/04

 

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Saiga .410 K 04 ( AK-102/105 design )

 

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Saiga .410 K 03 modified with gun parts STK

 


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Saiga .410 K 03  with POSP sight & hand made upgrade

 

 

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Saiga .410 K 03 for IPSC

 


Saiga .410 SVD/SVDs

 


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Saiga .410 SVD (wood)

 

 

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Saiga .410 SVDs (plastic)

 

 

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Saiga .410 SVD with POSP & 410C on the firing line.


Edited by vinni83, 26 February 2013 - 05:02 PM.

He Is Russian. It  explains a lot...

 


#57 vinni83

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:11 AM

Kalashnikov for Terminator


(full metal equipment).

 

 

One of the most interesting upgrade kit for Saiga (in Kalashnikov style) produces Moscow firm "Zenith".

These parts are made from high-quality aircraft aluminum alloy (D16-T).

This kit is designed for Rissian special services.

 

 

There are several upgrade kits:

 

"Classics" http://www.zenitco.ru/en

 

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This kit is available for civilian customers.

 

 

 

"Expert"

 

 

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(The whole set is packed in a special aluminum case.)

 

 

 

This kit is available for military customers.

 


These parts are quite expensive :

Buttstock - 350$,
pistol grip - 100$
handguard - 100 to 200 $

 

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Saiga Mk 03 version of the "Classic"

 


He Is Russian. It  explains a lot...

 


#58 GunFun

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:57 PM

That looks like another knock off of a Tromix rifle type Shark Brake...



#59 Captain Hero

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:51 PM

I like this thread. Its got all my favorite things in life. Booze, women and guns. big_smile.gif


  • AZG likes this

Captain hero u always have a slutty avatar, u don't get laid do u u fat fuckin retard. Serve ur fucking country and suck a dick.


#60 beefcakeb0

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 02:14 AM

keep it coming, thoroughly enjoyed...I would be glad to trade some magpul for that handguard






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