dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Ive been playing with the idea of buying a Texas Weapons System dust cover with the rail so i can mount a dot lower. I have a few questions though; are they sturdy and return to zero (or real close to zero)? Are they still easy to remove and put back on like a factory dust cover? And if i didn't like it on my 762 would it swap onto my S12 i'm picking up next week? Any opinions are well received..... thanks! Dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
horatio 515 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 FWIW i talked to the vendor on this site who built my s-12 and it was recommended for the ak project i plan in the future. how it does what it does, i have no idea. but it seems to do what it does pretty dang well. ( try saying THAT 5 times fast) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mostholycerebus 415 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I do not have one, but will get one eventually for my 22" Saiga M-Series. From what ive seen they return to zero pretty darn well. They replace the sight leaf, so the cover becomes hinged. There is also some mechanism they lock into at the rear trunnion, so that is another point that re-locks into place. From what I have read they are good enough at holding their zero to work with scopes, so red dot ranges should not be an issue at all. They also add very little weight over the standard cover. Edited February 17, 2013 by mostholycerebus 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Actually i have a couple other questions as well. 1) i bought a pig nose adapter, castle nut, AR style buffer tube and a Magpul CTS stock for my first Saiga 762 (like it much more than the ACE skeleton i had on it) but i think it looks FUGLY with the pig nose adapter on the outside of the receiver. I have an internal block installed that the pig adapts to and I'm curious, is there any company who makes an internal block/pig nose adapter? It would make the ass end of the rifle much cleaner looking. Ill post a pic to show what i mean. 2) ive tried a few PG's but none mount up 100% tight with no creaking noise except the Tapco original style PG but i want one that is more "modern" and ergonomic. I like the feel of alot of grips but want one that uses the long PG screw like the Tapco (basically one without a compartment) because i feel the pressure of the screw head being at the bottom of the grip holds it tighter to the receiver as compared to one that is internal and uses a short screw. Ill post pics as well. Okay here is a pic of my Saiga & Bushmaster AR. I like the clean look of the AR how its just the castle nut, buffer tube and stock that you see as opposed to those part's plus the 1" long pig nose adapter. And here is a pic of the PG. (I have 2 new black ones on the way its tan because i had tan furniture on it before). I want a PG that attaches like this but something that fills my hand a bit better, maybe with finger grooves, and that attaches SOLID. any ideas? Ive tried the Houge (too big) and the engage (wasn't 100% solid). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Ya know, i just got an idea (oh oh!), if i can't find the right grip i could always buy another PG nut and poke another hole through the top of the PG with my Dremel and just have two mount screws so i can have the hollow compartment, a nice ergo grip and have it really solid. Maybe you guys don't have the same problem but the first grip i used was probably 97% tight and made a creaking noise like when you're walking in an old house on the top level. It really bugged me and sounded cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 1. Tws top cover - I have two of them on some 5.45 saigas, one with a trs 25 and one with a big 6x24x50 scope and both perform great and have good return to zero, at least as good if not better than the side mounts i was using before. Love them and will never use anything different to put optics on an ak again. 2. A good solid pistol grip - get an md arms pistol grip they use the long screw and are probably the toughest grip on the market. Very thick with a good bit of material where it meets the receiver. They are pretty cheap too, and are made to copy an original Russian design. Can't help ya on the pignose adapter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) After looking closer i don't think there would be enough room to have an internal buffer tube adapter. I'll have to live with it the way it is. Anyway, thanks for the replies. Hearing the TWS is hinged and replaces the rear sight got me more excited now. It might look pretty cool with Magpul MBUS (or Troy) and removing the whole front sight block, threading the barrel and just having a flash hider/brake on the barrel. As long as the Chaos top rail was level with the TWS cover it'd work just fine and the sight radius would be about 1.5" shorter so it wouldn't really make a huge difference. Then again maybe the 4 beers I've had are getting me thinking too much Edited February 17, 2013 by dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the insight Rogers, my mind is set and ill probably pick up two, one for one of my 762's and one for the S12 im picking up. I'll have to try that grip out, sound's like it'll be what im looking for. I wish Magpul made a MOE grip for stamped AK's as that's easily the best feeling PG in my opinion. I just picked up a Leupold Prismatic optic for my AR and i was planning on putting my TRS-25 i had on the AR on my Saiga after i get the new TWS cover. Nice to hear they work well together. Edited February 17, 2013 by dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 17, 2013 Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 (edited) I don't know what kind of s 12 you are getting but if it is a regular 109 the tws cover will not fit it. It has to have a regular rear sight block with a leaf sight for the cover to attach to. Even if It does have a regular rear sight block like an ak the cover will still not fit without a lot of modification on s12s. The trs 25 you are planing on putting on your 762 with the tws cover will lower 1/3 co witness with the front sight nicely so I think you will like that setup. Check out this thread for some pics of my setup. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/73533-tws-rail-rear-sight-options/ Edited February 17, 2013 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Glad you brought that up before i ordered two! Thanks. I just ordered a MD arms PG, it looks exactly like what i want. Im not even sure what S12 im getting yet because I've gotta wait until i get my tax return and who knows what'll be available in 3 weeks. I know of 3 stores that have recently had them locally so im hoping there's one left. They don't seem super popular around here. And please, nobody ask where they are because im keeping it a secret until i get mine! I mentioned it on another forum and had 6 PM's within an hour.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Well i got the TWS in today. Not as happy with it as i thought id be. After i can get the damn thing installed ill let ya know what i think! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
semper299 284 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Please do. I was considering TWS for my next build. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
devildogdakota 804 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I have the Gen I TWS on one x-39, and the Gen II on another x-39, both Saigas. Both have Vortex Strikefires mounted on them with the taller mounts so I can see the iron front sight post through the rear peep site under the Strikefires. My groups have tightened up significantly with the extended sight radius and rear peep the TWS rail offers. Difference is night and day. Been happier than a pig in shit with this set up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 It's pretty cool. The main thing i don't like is the rail is approx. 1/3" lower than the top rail of my Chaos handguard (obviously not TWS fault) because i want to run AR style BUIS so im not sure what sights ill use now. I cut my FSB off already so i can't use that anymore (i wanted the front clean looking anyway). I do want to find a barrel sleeve to cover up where the old FSB was, anyone know of where i can get one? Anyway, the other things im not excited about is the finish is nothing like the receiver and the dust cover scratches VERY easily. The finish could be better for how much this thing costs. Next, its a 2 piece cover (a small piece that replaces the rear sight then screws into the main cover) and it's adjustable for different sized receivers. The small piece that replaces the rear sight screws into the main cover with 2 hex head screws but i had to adjust the length so much that i can only use 1 screw to lock the pieces together which weakens it and makes it look crappy (see pics). Another small thing is the pin that holds the small piece in where the old sight was is stainless color when it should be black to match everything else (not a big deal but whatever). Finally, and something that's pretty annoying is you have to replace the rear part of the recoil spring and dust cover button which isn't a big deal but the one they supply is smooth and the stupid thing is flush with the back of the dustcover making it difficult to release the cover to do basic maintenance! That's a bad design flaw IMO. The finish on the button also comes conveniently pre-worn. I love that it gives the Saiga a modern look and a solid (so far) option to mount an optic low and get a good cheek on stock position. All in all I'm happy with the TWS but think it could be much better for the price. Props to CSS again, they're a great company. They ship fast and answer questions fast as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I have the Gen I TWS on one x-39, and the Gen II on another x-39, both Saigas. Both have Vortex Strikefires mounted on them with the taller mounts so I can see the iron front sight post through the rear peep site under the Strikefires. My groups have tightened up significantly with the extended sight radius and rear peep the TWS rail offers. Difference is night and day. Been happier than a pig in shit with this set up! See i was going for either Magpul MBUS or Troy folding Battle sights and already cut my FSB off (wanted it clean up front like an AR) so I'm kinda screwed unless i mix and match sights but that can get spendy fast using trial and error. The UTG side mount i was using was 1/2" taller than the Chaos so i was really hoping the TWS would be real close but it's 1/3" lower now. I'm thinking that MAYBE if I install a AK74 gas tube and a different quad rail i might be able to get the handguard rail a little lower? Idk. Ideas are welcome! P.S. i might take everything apart and send it off to get Cerakoted so it has a nice hard finish and everything matches. I know a guy that does bolt rifles for $120 so it'd probably be under $200. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) Delete Edited February 25, 2013 by dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebobrusso 27 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 ultimak gas tube rail is supposed to be the lowest Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Thanks Smeeg, ill look into it! Edit: after looking more into it, im not sure the Ultimak would even work. The rail would have to be cut into the gas tube to be level with the TWS (which is obviously impossible). If i want BUIS i think my only option is to find a small riser, i have 2 already but they're both too tall. If the rail was as high as the little piece that replaces the rear sight it'd be perfect. Im not going to stress about iron sights too much, the Leupold Prismatic i have mounted is an illuminated optic but the reticle is also etched into the glass which means it doesn't need the illumination to see the reticle. Its supposedly Leopold's most durable scope/optic so i doubt ill ever see the day i need irons anyway, even if the batteries die. Edited February 26, 2013 by dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
breid1970 327 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Looking good Dubs. Your becoming an AK Pimp! Making me drool. Now get to threading that barrel so you can do mine! I would even throw in some brew (your choice). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Breid, im ordering the part's Wednesday so they should be here Saturday or Monday. Ill gladly thread yours or let you use my die, we could meet at range halfway or something. I always go to bills but thats in circle pines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) It's pretty cool. The main thing i don't like is the rail is approx. 1/3" lower than the top rail of my Chaos handguard (obviously not TWS fault) because i want to run AR style BUIS so im not sure what sights ill use now. I cut my FSB off already so i can't use that anymore (i wanted the front clean looking anyway). I do want to find a barrel sleeve to cover up where the old FSB was, anyone know of where i can get one?Anyway, the other things im not excited about is the finish is nothing like the receiver and the dust cover scratches VERY easily. The finish could be better for how much this thing costs. Next, its a 2 piece cover (a small piece that replaces the rear sight then screws into the main cover) and it's adjustable for different sized receivers. The small piece that replaces the rear sight screws into the main cover with 2 hex head screws but i had to adjust the length so much that i can only use 1 screw to lock the pieces together which weakens it and makes it look crappy (see pics). Another small thing is the pin that holds the small piece in where the old sight was is stainless color when it should be black to match everything else (not a big deal but whatever). Finally, and something that's pretty annoying is you have to replace the rear part of the recoil spring and dust cover button which isn't a big deal but the one they supply is smooth and the stupid thing is flush with the back of the dustcover making it difficult to release the cover to do basic maintenance! That's a bad design flaw IMO. The finish on the button also comes conveniently pre-worn. I love that it gives the Saiga a modern look and a solid (so far) option to mount an optic low and get a good cheek on stock position. All in all I'm happy with the TWS but think it could be much better for the price. Props to CSS again, they're a great company. They ship fast and answer questions fast as well.[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-19-08_429.jpg[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-22-49_660.jpg[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-30-22_108.jpg[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-30-43_602.jpg[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-46-14_923.jpg[img=http://forum.saiga-12.com//public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif] 2013-02-25_14-23-49_630.jpg Just looking at your pics and it looks like you might have it installed incorrectly. The first clue was when you said the button doesn't come all the way out the back of the cover then you mentioned you could only get one screw where the two pieces bolt together, another red flag. After looking at your pics it looks like you have the top cover mounted over the whole backend of the gun, it is supposed to fit in the Groove just like the original top cover. So you might try taking it off, putting both screws in it , shorten up the overall length as much possible and test fitting it then tighten up your screws. I will try to get a pic of the way the cover is supposed to fit at the back and post it to help you out. That will fix a lot of the complaints you had about the cover. Here is a pic of how the back should look. http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb399/rs51085/20120317200244.jpg[/img] Edited February 26, 2013 by rogers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I tried to get it to fit normal but i couldn't get it to. I'll try again, i had the baby screaming while trying to get it on so i was a little frustrated! Thanks for the heads up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 You may have to file a little bit off the front of the cover to get it to fit like the original cover but after you do it will be rock solid and I think you will like it. I know what you mean about kids screaming and aplaude you for being able to get any work at all done with that going on! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) You're right, i got it forward another 1/2" or so to where it should be but the button still doesn't come out. Im going to do a little bit of dremel work quick and get it to stick out. Thanks again for the heads up! I thought i had a so-so designed product but I wasn't paying enough attention. And yeah it gets pretty stressful around here.. i dont work from December-mid March and we have a 5 month old baby, 3 month old puppy and a 4 month old kitty! I give props to women because i can't get sh*t done at home until the GF gets home from work and all the stuff she seems to get done while im working i know i can't do lol. Edited February 26, 2013 by dubya Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rs51085 136 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah I don't know how women do it either. My wife is a multi tasker as well and routinely wonders why I can't get anything done when I keep the kids. Oh and you maybe can just cycle the charging handle a few times and get the button to seat properly. I usually have to do that everytime I flip the cover up and back down but atleast it fits nice and tight like that. I like your scope, once you get the mount sorted out I think that will be a very tough combo to beat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 +1 women lol Yeah i was going to buy a Kobra red dot but I kinda fell into this Leupold and im glad I did. Its only a 1X but it's extremely clear, good eye relief, light, and the illuminated reticle is A+. I really don't want a front sight block on this build, just flip up sights, but I'll need a 1/4" tall riser to make it happen perfectly. There are different height sights though also so there has to be something that will work. Just have to thread the barrel and Cerakote and it'll be 100% done! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zombiehunter762 376 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 When I built my Draco-C SBR. I went with a TWS railed cover and a Krebs Quad rail. And never looked back. You will like it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Anyone ever removed their side plate? I'm thinking it'd look cleaner and it'd remove a little weight. I have no use for it now so it's just dead weight. When I built my Draco-C SBR. I went with a TWS railed cover and a Krebs Quad rail.And never looked back.You will like it.Pics of that Draco SBR? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Renfrewshire 0 Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Good choice on the grip. I have that one and it is very comfortable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dubya 198 Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah i tried 3 different grips and just couldn't find one that looked good, was sturdy, and ergonomic. The best i tried was the Tapco original style grip but it was so small then another member suggested the MD Molot grip and its perfect. I'll probably put one on my S12 too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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