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Hello guys and gals, With my tax return I should have enough saved up to add probably one last "respectable" gun to my collection - so I have begun my research. I have already acquired\assembled my preferred AR (5.56), AK (7.62x39), S-12, and 10/22 among many other things and was thinking of adding a Springfield M1A. My determining factors are I like to experience and expose myself and others to a variety of weapons\shooting experiences. I also like practical real world\something not everyone has\take it out and use it type of things. This would be something I shoot\maintain for pleasure and not a safe queen. For what all of these things cost though, I don’t want to second guess a purchase by not having considered something else first. I have been a member of this forum long enough to realize there is a lot I don't know (and won't know unless I ask).

 

So do you think I am making a good choice with a M1A? If you think I should consider something else please let me know what and why. For example, Springfield M1A National Match because it it starts with a solid set of specs, has a historical pedigree, is a proven weapon, and uses a pretty standard caliber. Plus they look hard core. However, it is another type of ammo to try and stock up on.

 

Also, please forgo any bad timing comments - I know what the market is now versus even just several months ago. Not sure if waiting is safe though.

 

Thanks for all of your insight, expertise, and input.

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The M1-A is a great gun, and if looking only to add a new and different caliber of weapon, is a great choice to get while you still can. That said, I've got enough Saigas to fill my safe, but I'm extremely impressed with my new Vepr-12.

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I have the M1A Scout model and like it very much! I put a good pistol scope on the forward rail, and it's fast and accurate. :)

 

Those Tavors sure look nice, though... That will have to wait, as I'm waiting for my next "toy" to come in at the local gun store:

A Kriss SDP! 000.gif

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Vepr is another safe option but I think I still lean toward the M1A. Unfortunately my friend told me what he paid for his M1A versus what they are selling for now - ouch.

 

Tavor is an interesting option but I usually shy away from buying the first generation of anything. I wonder what is it like to have a bullpup in that caliber as well? Hmm...seems they are not scheduled to arrive for another month or two.

 

Ronin - Congrats! I enjoy my Kriss CRB. Let me know if you find a source for the hi-cap magazines at a decent price.

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Henry Golden Boy 22 is a good idea, I agree. 22s are just so much fun to shoot at paper, what many of us do, right?

 

The GSG-522 line of MP5 styled are fun, got 5 of them. You can customize with some G3 furniture to give yours a special look.

 

Turning a VEPR 54R into "Dragunov" eventually, as sure IronWood will sometime switch the new SVD to square back. Awesome rifle probably under $2000 when you complete with a Russian scope.

 

Lastly, wait it out for a Center Balanced Rifle Performance Systems bull pup kit and make something cool, that no one around you probably has?

 

Bolt? Mosin Nagant in the upcoming archangel stock kit, under $500 with scope, again, wicked looking!

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Keeping with my name may I suggest something completely different -- the FNH FS2000...

Bullpup short

17.5 in barrel

5.56mm

Ejects out the front

Extremely accurate

Superlative ergonomics

The perfect CQB platform

A proven design

 

I love mine, can't ya tell...

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With the cost and supply issues with ammo I don't know if I would add to my calibers right now. I agree with others above...22lr....I have a gen II GSG-5 SD and a M&P 15-22....they both are great to shoot and cheap. The 15-22 is great for my boys...its 5 lbs total so they have no problems shouldering it. Both are great training platforms for the larger caliber guns....I know the feeling though...I want a G36 so bad I can't stand it but coming off 5k to 6k for a properly converted SL-8 has given me some sticker shock. Good Luck with your search.

 

 

 

Edit for spelling

Edited by sccritterkiller
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I want a Vepr 54R next.

 

Me too... Now that .22 has become scarce, x54R is actually the most affordable to fire round that I own!

 

I can't argue with just "wanting" an M1A, but the VEPR sure seems like a way better bargain.

 

If that were out of the question, I'd be looking for something in another "nasty" caliber. .338 lapua, .50 Beowulf, etc, etc... That's just where my mind is going right now.

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7.62X54R ammo has probably got the best cost & availability right now. This is if you don't mind shooting corrosive ammo and the extra steps in cleaning that need to happen fairly soon (not more than a couple hours in a damp climate) after shooting it.

 

For semi-autos, I see 3 main contenders, I currently have 2 of these:

 

SVT 'Tokarev' Pros; Decent arsenal-refinished 1940 models can be found for <$1,000.00 Not match-grade, but a very natural point & shoot rifle. Fits me well, anyway.

Can be fed with stripper-clips (Carefully! I'd guess that Tokarev thumb is similar to M1 thumb...) A not-so-common piece of history. Adjustable gas system.

Comp/muzzle-brake reduces recoil & nearly eliminates muzzle rise.

 

Cons; LOUD! Comp/muzzle-brake makes plugs with muffs just about a prerequisite. Moderate PITA to strip-down for a thorough cleaning if you shoot corrosive ammo.

Don't expect any better than about 2 MOA accuarcy YMMV. Designed for steel-case ammo, the chamber is deeply fluted & tears the hell out of reloadable brass.

Original magazines are few & dear. Repro mags are more common, but still spendy. Very limited options for optics & short sight radius with notch-style rear sight.

 

Given all that, mine doesn't get out of the safe much & gets a diet of not-as-cheap N/C Wolf.

 

 

PSL Pros: More common than the Tok, but more $ too. Expect to spend maybe $800.00+ on a shoddy 'bubba-build' & 1,500.00 or more for a really nice example from the Cugir arsenal.

Significant after-market parts availability Side-rail fits a wide variety of optics. (Mostly Russian pattern, unless you use a universal-type adaptor rail or aftermarket center-line rail).

I've heard of PSLs that shoot 4 or 5 MOA. Mine both shoot 1.5 MOA with 7N1 & just under 2 MOA with cheap Russian & Bulgarian light ball, If shot at a slow cadence.

You get to explain to people just about every time you shoot that "It's not a Dragunov." Easy as any AK to strip-down, since it's pretty much an overgrown AK.

 

 

Cons: You have to explain to people just about every time you shoot that "It's not a Dragunov." This does actually get old, sometimes. Short stock may not be comfortable for full-size adults.

Group size can increase dramatically if you heat-soak the barrel by shooting too fast. Thin barrel gets more flexible as it heats & changes the harmonics, resulting in 4-5 MOA.

Non-adjustable gas system & borderline overgassing means you have to stick with light (147-152 grain) bullets. A few heavier bullets might not hurt, but a steady diet will probably

beat the hell out of the rear trunnion & bolt carrier. And I do believe some of the surplus heavy ball ammo is loaded hotter for use in machineguns, so stick with the light stuff.

Spare mags are available, but have gotten stupid expensive. Short sight radius & square-notch rear sight. Offset optics can be a deal-killer for some, I've adapted, mostly.

 

I like my PSLs a lot. Don't expect great accuacy if you use one as a bump-fire toy(like anybody is gonna shoot sub-MOA that way...). Designed as a 'Designated Marksmans' Rifle', they

were meant to quickly & effectively hit man-size targets out to maybe 800 yards. They're cheap to feed & fun to shoot.

 

Vepr Pros: Current production. Costs about as much as a nice PSL All the rest of this is second-hand, since I don't have a Vepr & haven't shot one. Beefier barrel shouldn't be as

prone to increasing shot dispersal with heat-soaking? Vepr build- quality and finish are supposed to be rather better than PSLs. I haven't heard much good or bad on ergonomics.

 

Cons: Single-stack 5 round magazines. Spares are in short supply. 10 round mags protrude conspicuously, are expensive and in shorter supply.

 

 

If you win the lottery or have some other windfall, a real SVD Dragunov, sporter Tigr or Chinese NDM86 SDV copy will set you back beaucoup bucks. There are also some semiauto versions of the Goryunov & Degtjarev machine-guns.

Edited by Hawk451
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Well Hawk, your choice of words to describe a Vepr rifle is pretty much spot on. For having a thumbhole stock, they are very comfortable the way they come out of the box. I guess one could question the comfort in the length of pull as Im used to the WARSAW length, but they are quite ergonomic as they are. And their rifles dont share the same QC issues as their shotguns that many complained about that were imported recently.

 

But for the M1A, those are hard to beat. Id actually like one of the SOCOM models if I could swing it. I was also throwing around the Ruger scout rifle. But I think Id rather have the M1A.

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Dang it - you guys aren't helping at all! scorn.gif Haha! Seriously, some interesting suggestions I never would have considered that are worth reasearching - if not for now, for future reference. All of a sudden this decision seems a lot harder.

 

Glad we could help. I think your best bet would be to have two or three options and wait a little while until you can find a deal.

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Forgot to mention... Another gun I was considering was a replica 1865 Spencer Carbine from Chiappa or Cimmaron. It's available in several calibers, I was hoping for .45 Colt. After a LOT of digging and emails, I found out that they are made by Armi Sport in Italy. You have to backorder one from a dealer. Then wait. The US distributors don't know what is coming over on the boat until they get a copy of the shipping mainifest. So... "hopefully" after 3-6 months, they "might" include one or two in the next shipment and "maybe" one of those will be for your order.

 

Er, no thanks. :wacko:

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Dang it - you guys aren't helping at all! scorn.gif Haha! Seriously, some interesting suggestions I never would have considered that are worth reasearching - if not for now, for future reference. All of a sudden this decision seems a lot harder.

 

I had never considered a x54R VEPR until I became a regular reader of this forum. There's about 15 other guns that I've become interested in due to this place. I should have taken up cocaine as I think it might be more affordable! :)

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Well, I researched all the guns mentioned on this list. Some I would have never thought of but will definitely be looking into again. It was interesting to me to compare the "old school" against the "new school". It was also painful to see the state of the market regarding guns and ammo.

 

I went ahead and picked up a Springfield M1A National Match. The seller was willing to work with me on price. The rifle already had some nice add-ons and the seller included 7 magazines full of ammo. The M1A just seemed like a solid addition to my collection and I have a soft spot for them since I spent my college years cleaning and maintaining one (must be getting old if I am getting nostalgic about my college days). FYI - In doing my research I called Springfield with the serial number and was very impressed with their CS.

 

I appreciate everyone's input. The broad range of knowledge, expertise, and opinions on this forum is awesome. Thanks!

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I was a little late to the party and I was going to suggest the plr-16? Seems like you have a good assortment of long rifles already, and for some reason i have a real hankering for this thing. Oh well. Can't argue with what you got, very nice indeed...enjoy it!

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