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Catamount Fury, the new Chinese Saiga 12


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#1 Captken

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:35 PM

Cruising Gun Broker tonight and saw a few of these things for sale. Advertised as the new China Saiga 12 that is not listed on the gun ban.

#2 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

And what ever happened to us not being able to import any more firearms from China?


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#3 Maxwelhse

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

You're WAY behind the times... This has been discussed at great length.

 

In regard to Cobra's Q, I'm betting that century is building them from kits, just like their AKs.


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#4 HOG76

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 09:05 PM

We can still get shotguns from China, but not rifles, at least that is how I understand it.  I wish we could still get $100 Chinese SKS rifles.


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it's over an hour, but worth a watch, http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8WBiTnBwSWc


#5 defequisimo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:03 PM

We can still get shotguns from China, but not rifles, at least that is how I understand it.  I wish we could still get $100 Chinese SKS rifles.

Yea no shit... remember those days.... gun shows with crate after crate of new Russian and Chinese sks rifles...$ 95.00 for the Norinco's and around my area any way the Russian sks for just a little more, covered in cosmoline and each one with a bayonet... at least until after the ban....then no more bayonets..... can't blame them there though...what with all the drive by bayonetings and all.


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#6 Maxwelhse

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

We can still get shotguns from China, but not rifles, at least that is how I understand it.  I wish we could still get $100 Chinese SKS rifles.

Yea no shit... remember those days.... gun shows with crate after crate of new Russian and Chinese sks rifles...$ 95.00 for the Norinco's and around my area any way the Russian sks for just a little more, covered in cosmoline and each one with a bayonet... at least until after the ban....then no more bayonets..... can't blame them there though...what with all the drive by bayonetings and all.

 

True enough... It only took me 6 passes to cut through a stick of butter with my AK bayonet.


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#7 Mike Rogers

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?


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#8 Captain Hero

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:10 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.


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Those who live by the sword, get shot by those who don't. 022.gif

 

 

 

 


#9 Maxwelhse

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.

 

I have to wonder what the point is when the clone costs as much as the genuine article? The only example on gun broker at the moment is $1k. I seem to recall someone mentioning that dealer pricing is around the $700 mark?

 

So...? Why is there a big interest in this? Just curiosity or really hoping to find a better mouse trap?



#10 HighPlainsDrifter

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

Here is the first thread started when they showed up at the shot show.  I recommend checking out the online manual link found in the first post.  I found the parts diagrams very interesting. 


Edited by HighPlainsDrifter, 21 February 2013 - 10:23 PM.

"Alaskans are hard-living, fast-drinking, and cheap-loving."  - Mr. Whitekeys

 

 


#11 Mike Rogers

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:34 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.

Well, if it sucks - word will get around soon enough. If it doesn't - the brand name "Catamount Fury" is likely to discount the platform by a couple hundred bucks. Personally, I'm not all a fan of Chi-Com copies of anything. I've spent time in China, and the best thing they've got going for them is a billion slave labor wage workers, who have no options, and no choices.

 

As far as I'm concerned, fuck the Chinese and their slave labor based economy. I've been there, and their system absolutely sucks. Fuck the Chinese. I will not build with their guns, I will not use their parts.

 

Done!


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#12 GunFun

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:43 PM

Good thing you typed that on an american computer....


Edited by GunFun, 21 February 2013 - 10:43 PM.

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#13 Maxwelhse

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 10:47 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.

Well, if it sucks - word will get around soon enough. If it doesn't - the brand name "Catamount Fury" is likely to discount the platform by a couple hundred bucks. Personally, I'm not all a fan of Chi-Com copies of anything. I've spent time in China, and the best thing they've got going for them is a billion slave labor wage workers, who have no options, and no choices.

 

As far as I'm concerned, fuck the Chinese and their slave labor based economy. I've been there, and their system absolutely sucks. I take back everything I said. Fuck the Chinese. I will not build with their guns, I will not use their parts.

 

Done!

 

We need a true US manufacturer of AK platform firearms. Tomorrow they could turn the spigot off and poof, no more imported guns. Most of us aren't afraid of spending enough on an AK to buy a comparable US made firearm. I would also guess that most of us would pay a premium for a US made gun vs. a where ever made gun. I'm sure I'm not the first to have mentioned this.

 

Good thing you typed that on an american computer....

 

I believe you just added fuel to my fire... Would you buy an American made computer for 10-15% more money if one were available in the market? I would... My PCs are like my guns, they're built to be exactly what I want and aren't cheap anyhow. Another drop in the bucket wouldn't bother me.



#14 defequisimo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:26 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.

Well, if it sucks - word will get around soon enough. If it doesn't - the brand name "Catamount Fury" is likely to discount the platform by a couple hundred bucks. Personally, I'm not all a fan of Chi-Com copies of anything. I've spent time in China, and the best thing they've got going for them is a billion slave labor wage workers, who have no options, and no choices.

 

As far as I'm concerned, fuck the Chinese and their slave labor based economy. I've been there, and their system absolutely sucks. I take back everything I said. Fuck the Chinese. I will not build with their guns, I will not use their parts.

 

Done!

Love it..... and agree...  FUCK the chinese


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#15 well2160

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 11:31 PM

I'll reserve judgement on the Fury.  At the risk of being flamed and don't get me wrong I love my Saigas but it's not like they are a finely tuned piece of machinery when they show up at your doorstep.  You're dang lucky if it runs out of the box with no work without using 3 inch or expensive loads.  If it's a S20 it may never reliably (100%) cycle the cheap stuff.  This forum is full of documented inconsistencies in the Russian manufacturing (2-4 hole barrels).  If the Chinese do even a half decent job the quality will be on par with the stock Saiga.  My only concern is availability of after market parts.  It has taken 10 years for the Saigas to get decent magazine, drum, part availability.  I'm purely talking quality here and not Chinese manufacturing.


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#16 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:30 AM

You're WAY behind the times... This has been discussed at great length.

 

In regard to Cobra's Q, I'm betting that century is building them from kits, just like their AKs.

 

Uhhh yeah whatever buddy.  what.gif

 

Saw these guns advertised when they first came out and was not impressed. I will know for sure within a few minutes of disassembling one.

 

 As far as my post about imports, I was mainly referring to rifles and should have made that clear. That Clintoon bastard screwed the pooch for us thanks alot.

 

 Oh and YES .... FUCK a bunch of Chinese imported bullshit!


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#17 MAKAK47

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:34 AM

I'm still waiting for more Vepr-12 magazines, SGM's aren't perfect and the Ruskie ones are extremely expensive, so I'm really hoping AGP makes some Vepr mags soon

If the cat amounts to furry or whatever shares magazines with the Saigas and Veprs, maybe we could see an influx of affordable Chinese magazines...?

Having said that, I would much rather contribute money to my fellow Americans, but of course, my favorite weapons are Kalashnikovs, so the surplus market has been much better than what some U.S. companies have tried contributing in the realm of magazines (seriously, how has nobody in the U.S. made an all steel AK mag?)

 



#18 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:35 AM

Based on how well built my Chicom AKs were, I think the Furry will be a good starting point for an awesome shotgun. That's pretty much how I look at the Saiga 12 and VEPR 12. They all need work to meet my expectations, so it is just more of the same to me.... only different.


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Prodigy....

 

 

 

 


#19 GunFun

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:39 AM

My point was simply that no product can be solely based in one nation anymore. I am all for making products here, and no fan of how a lot of China operates. It isn't  a homogenous nation and there is a lot of oppression. Their government is certainly oppressive, but that does not mean every business is.  However, where people are free and making money for themselves over there, they demand more freedom. Trade is good for those people. I want freedom in China as much as I want it here. I have not been there, but I have friends from there, and friends who moved over there too.

 

 

As for apple products  a number of those are known for human rights problems where they are manufactured in China. Russia doesn't have the best track record either. 

 

The truth is protectionism is an impossible goal. It has been tried many times and succeeded just as many times as socialism. The real way to keep a vibrant economy is to find new things that we excel at beyond others. We can't boycott our way to safety from foreign markets, we can only out compete them. We lose some markets and win others. The real way to keep a vibrant economy is to find new things that we excel at beyond others. Or if we screw up our economic system enough, intelligent people will emigrate to where ever they are less screwed up. I see hope for our country economically if for no other reason than that people who want to make something for themselves still want to come here. 

 

I just get a little skeptical when people start talking about how they will only buy American, on a forum devoted to an imported platform. I seriously doubt anyone could live a modern life and keep that sentiment consistently. Inconsistency is supposed to be fair game for wit.

 

I was meaning a bit of a playful jibe, but I can see that a lot of people are taking real offense. I would have hoped to get a lighthearted jibe or two in return. Meh.

 

(my real name is easy enough to find if you want to. there is no privacy on the internets, but I am not going to go out of my way to erode what little there is. So does your parenthetical count as a "catty response" Mike?)


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#20 Mike Rogers

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 09:58 AM

Point taken. I did let my nose get a little far out of joint. Parentheticals removed.


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#21 Dad2142Dad

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:17 AM

While one can try and focus their dollars away from countries or companies whose policies you don't agree with is a noble effort. In reality it is not the easiest thing to do. The dilution of made in America requirements along with billionaires tends to funnel your dollars to the very people you don't want it to go to. If you look into who actually owns what, it can be depressing.

 

Lots of money is still made in the US on import, distribution, manufacture and sales of products made in other countries.


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#22 DistalRadius

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 12:31 PM

I love cheap guns so I'm all for imported Chinese firearms, the more the merrier. Wish we could still get their rifles/pistols/ammo too. Quality has yet to be determined though, so I'm very interested in taking a look inside one of these things.

 

And yes, the name is a total facepalm. Oh well.


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#23 Captken

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:04 PM

So wasn't it ABC that tried to furnish a house with nothing but American made items and couldn't.  I think they found a rug and a bowl. 



All things considered, China does a pretty good job at knock offs. I bought a knock off 150cc Honda scooter some years back for $900 out the door.  Three years later and 13,000 miles, I sold it for $700 and it was still running.  I then bought a Japanese bike.  Better quality and not as many parts fell off.



#24 GunFun

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:17 PM

I think a bigger lesson to be learned out of this is that a big industry has been made out of improving imports. That is employing a lot of americans. 

 

Apple has more US jobs marketing and developing and supporting  more "cost effective" computers than they would if they were trying to manufacture here and were charging a quarter more. Japan gets more jobs having thier cars built in Kentucky and Tennesse and the "US" automakers build their cars mostly in canada and mexico.



#25 csspecs

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 02:47 PM

The US has always had issues with factory workers.. To much free thinking to be able to screw hard drives into computers for 35+ years. Only option to get a free thinker on an assembly line is more money an hour.

 

Anyone who thinks you can't fill a house with US made consumer goods has not shopped outside of big box stores. Most US goods are higher end then people here are willing to pay for, so they are either at high end retailer, special order, or sold to markets that appreciate high end goods.

 

There is an alternator manufacturer about 20 miles from me.. Everything they make goes to Europe for higher end cars.


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#26 SGM

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

I messed with one at Shot Show.....



#27 MAKAK47

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:46 PM

....and????



#28 filthygovemploye

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:39 PM

If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

meh, catamount is just not uh-murikin... fury is cool. they shoulda chosen a more western name instead of catamount...

 

do you have one on order?



 fell off.

lolz, my buddy broke his clavicle on a lil 125cc pit bike from over theer



If it works, we'll build with it. Looking forward to taking it apart at the shop, and range testing. "Catamount Fury" sounds completely second rate at this point. Whatever it may be - It is what it is. Looking forward to finding out whether it stands up or not.

 

Catamount.... Fury? Really!!!?

Exactly. The name alone doesnt really sound promising, but I can look past the S12 "clone" if it holds up. Hard to say at this point.

 

I have to wonder what the point is when the clone costs as much as the genuine article? The only example on gun broker at the moment is $1k. I seem to recall someone mentioning that dealer pricing is around the $700 mark?

 

So...? Why is there a big interest in this? Just curiosity or really hoping to find a better mouse trap?

i am on the waiting list for the 2 at century. $750. should be showing up soon, couple on armslit for 800. for 750 with magwell and lrbho, 2 mags and chokes, i am gonna give it a shot. plus, the real deals cant be had for less than 900.. and we dont really know the status of current saigas export correct? last year we had import probs, now they have export probs, CHEEZE and RICE!!!!



 It has taken 10 years for the Saigas to get decent magazine, drum, part availability.  I'm purely talking quality here and not Chinese manufacturing.

more like 20 no?



#29 evlblkwpnz

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:01 PM

I want one and I don't give half a hoot if it came from the moon or who the hell built it.


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Prodigy....

 

 

 

 


#30 sweetcostarica

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:54 PM

We can't boycott our way to safety from foreign markets, we can only out compete them. We lose some markets and win others. The real way to keep a vibrant economy is to find new things that we excel at beyond others...

 

I just get a little skeptical when people start talking about how they will only buy American, on a forum devoted to an imported platform. I seriously doubt anyone could live a modern life and keep that sentiment consistently....

 

I always thought it strange hearing my fellow Americans say I only by American products in this world economy. I love America and want us to succeed but I also have a budget and want more bang for my buck. Since I was a kid I saw American products slowly lower in quality and foreign products slowly rise in quality. I shop at Walmart to save. Most of their products are made in China.

 

While at my High School (1976) they handed me a sledge hammer to bash an imported car to pieces to demonstrate resistance to importation of foreign made goods. I thought that was odd too.

 

My opinion on how to improve the American economy is to return to the work ethic of our forefathers and start making great products that made America successful or new products that work. Then no one will have to say, "buy American" or demonstrate against imports because the American product is the best and people will always buy the best in quality and price.

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