Am I being realistic? AR-15 canted sight

[socom688 217]

Ok, my PSA upper's front sight is slightly canted to the left when aiming down the sights. It was way worse, but I sent it in for warranty work and they adjusted the cant, but it's still off. So I sent it back a second time. Now it does shoot dead on, and the rear sight had to be moved over a few clicks to compensate, but it's just aesthetically displeasing since they didn't completely eliminate the cant. I got a call from them saying it does shoot accurately with the sights the way they are now, and they don't feel the need to adjust it.

 

What do y'all think? Should I just deal with it? It's a tack driver and there is still plenty of room for windage adjustments, but for $1,000 bucks I feel it should look the part.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Tough call.

I'd really be wanting it either straight or so close to be hardly noticeable.

If it isn't right, it isn't right.

 

But, if it is a tack driver, they could either inadvertently or purposefully screw it up.

I'd trust very few people to do a job right if they felt forced to do the work and/or felt I was being an annoyance.

So, are they being dicks about doing it right?

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

It would piss me off every time I looked down the sights.

 

I would fit it, because I'm OCD.

[socom688 217]

Chile, the guy I talked to on the phone sounded somewhat annoyed about the situation. He stated their master armorer took it out to the range, and the sights were dead on and felt no need to adjust them. I agree about the not pissing them off but like Max, I can't stand not having it be off. I mean if it were a Kalashnikov, I wouldn't even be posting this.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

And like I said, "If it isn't right, it isn't right."... Tough call, glad I don't have to make it.

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

like Max, I can't stand not having it be off. I mean if it were a Kalashnikov, I wouldn't even be posting this.

 

Blasphemer! I'll have you know, Mr. Fancy AR, all my AK sights are straight!

 

If you truly can't stand it, and the manufacturer has walked away, then it's your problem. It wouldn't change the outcome for me. I'd get them lined up to the receiver and the bore as well as possible, without damaging functionality. If you can't do it, take it to someone that can.

 

Or I guess you could put a couple of lasers and red dots and scopes on it, since it's an AR.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

If it's canted and they refuse to make it right, fuck 'em. Fix it yourself, or pay a gunsmith to do it right, never do business with that company again, and spread your story to all your gun loving friends. Word of mouth and voting with feet are powerful tools.

[YOT 3,743]

Shandlanos, nailed it. They stand behind their product and fix their fuck-up. Push them! It's YOUR money.

[redfish28 50]

How off is it now? If it was only a few clicks I wouldn't even worry. I have come to find that not everyone holds a rifle the same. People also see the sights differently. If you can zero it without gross adjustment than I would be wearing that thing out.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

We need more exact information, like what kind of front site base you are running and what kind of rear site assembly you are using. With this info we can make a better determination.

 

FWIW, years ago and far away an AR15, before it left our shops, HAD to shoot straight down the pipe with the stock sites and with the rear site being within four (4) clicks of being dead center.

 

To do this with the shit for parts we had to build with then was sometimes a copper plated bitch. Lots of time was spent installing and reinstalling the barrel to index it perfectly. Does your provider do this?

 

Dunno. We need more exact info. IF your are running stock sites, the rifle SHOULD shoot straight down the pipe right to left with the rear site exactly centered within the formentioned four clicks.

 

And...never start a new paragraph with a conjunction. Somebody lease don't tell me military spec is for a much more sloppy build. Should not happen. You have a new rifle. It should be perfect in everyway.

 

Also, FWIW, the front site should not even a tiny bit appear to be off center. What this means is that they have apes for builders, or they are using shit aftermarket parts, or both. Your choice. HB of CJ

 

(hundreds of AR15 builds, but long ago and kinda far away and nobody cares today anyhow including me sooss there you have it in a nutshell. Go figure. Return the rifle and have them FIX IT!!!!!)

[nlacy 692]

can we see a pick? PSA has built a reputation as a high quality/low cost company so it's in their best interest to make it right. That said, I don't know any company right now who isn't overwhelmed with demand right now. Sometimes that makes people a little cranky and hard to deal with.

[mostholycerebus 415]

PSA has a rep for top notch quality parts at very good price. They also have a rep for terrible customer service. They have messed up all three orders ive placed with them, but eventually got 2 of them right with enough calling and bitching. Calling, and calling, and calling trying to get through with every other customer that got a screwed up order doing the same thing.

 

I wont order from them again unless its a REALLY killer deal, its just not worth the trouble for me.

 

That said, I want what I paid for, and it sounds like you paid for an upper with a straight sight.

Edited February 25, 2013 by mostholycerebus

[Lone Eagle 839]

Maybe you should have done what I did when I swapped my Stag 6.8 upper for mine.......have a cop order it.

 

The officer is a fellow mod on another forum, and wanted my 6.8 for Texas hogs. He offered me an unfired PSA upper he'd ordered and several mags(I had 4 in 6.8). He'd ordered this one: http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/ar-15-05/complete-uppers/psa-16-hammer-forged-midlength-upperpper.html Everything was laser straight when I received it. He told me later this is the exact upper his department runs, and had simply tacked his onto an order.

 

If it were me, I'd tell Mr Frustration you want to speak to someone higher on the food chain.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Get some barrel blocks for your vise and "tune" the FSB with a mallet. It will move a little. Don't hit the sight ears....

 

This is a bit quicker than sending it back.

[redfish28 50]

Get some barrel blocks for your vise and "tune" the FSB with a mallet. It will move a little. Don't hit the sight ears....

 

This is a bit quicker than sending it back.

This. It works.

[socom688 217]

Thanks for all the replies everyone .

As far as pics, I don't have any at the moment. The upper is either still at PSA or has already been shipped to me. I'll find that out tomorrow.

The front sight that is canted is an F marked and the rear is just a carry handle. Besides aiming down the sites, the cant can be observed by simply looking at the fore grip and the flat to without the carry handle.

This is what I am currently thinking: make myself some barrel blocks outta some scrap hardwood I have laying around at my work, and do what evl and red are suggesting. It isn't a huge cant, and I'd rather not go through the hassle of sending it back and all that crap for a third time. I will post pics of it as soon as I get it back in hand.

[HB of CJ 1,263]

We are trying to help you. What exact kind of front site base do you have....is it a stock M16 type, or do you have something else. Round or square post?..doesn't matter. Regarding the rear site....you say you have a "carry handle". What does that exactly mean? Are the rear sites, A1, A2, detachable A2 stock, or something else using a "carry handle".

 

Does the "handle" come off or is it part of the upper? Are you using aftermarket sites with a detachable carry handle? It all makes a difference trying to figure out why your gun looks sooss goofy. It is possible that is the way it is....using the combination of parts your build employs. But we don't know yet. Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot) Just describe fully.

 

It is not your fault. The basic M16 design sucks in sooss many ways.....the lack of rear site travel potential and sight alignment during the build is just of many shortcomings. Everything needs to be near perfect....if not...then the results is kinda what you are describing. The tooling and fixtures and gigs must be very precise. The barrel torqueing must be presise....frankly the AK is much better. IMHO.

[sccritterkiller 473]

I would pull the canted block off install a low profile GB and cover it with a quad rail. IMO looks way better covered anyway.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I would check for a piece of debri caught between the barrel extension and where it mates up to the upper receiver. If the barrel was inadvertantly installed with debri in the seam, it will cock the barrel very slightly. That's a pretty easy fix. Just remove the barrel, clean the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and lower receiver, and you're good to go. A more serious issue would be if there is debri trapped between the barrel extension and the shoulder on the barrel itself.

 

 

Tony

[socom688 217]

We are trying to help you. What exact kind of front site base do you have....is it a stock M16 type, or do you have something else. Round or square post?..doesn't matter. Regarding the rear site....you say you have a "carry handle". What does that exactly mean? Are the rear sites, A1, A2, detachable A2 stock, or something else using a "carry handle".

 

Does the "handle" come off or is it part of the upper? Are you using aftermarket sites with a detachable carry handle? It all makes a difference trying to figure out why your gun looks sooss goofy. It is possible that is the way it is....using the combination of parts your build employs. But we don't know yet. Hope this helps. HB of CJ (old coot) Just describe fully.

 

It is not your fault. The basic M16 design sucks in sooss many ways.....the lack of rear site travel potential and sight alignment during the build is just of many shortcomings. Everything needs to be near perfect....if not...then the results is kinda what you are describing. The tooling and fixtures and gigs must be very precise. The barrel torqueing must be presise....frankly the AK is much better. IMHO.

Oh I know, and that's why I go to this site first. Plenty of straight forward, no frills responses. It's an A2 rear sight on a detachable carry handle. Just like an M4. The front post is square. It's an M4 profiled barrel so it has an M4 length front handguard, so the front sight is closer to the receiver than say a standard length.

 

 

 

I agree that the AK is better, that's why I have 3 Kalashnikovs. I can fix everything with a hammer, dremel and pop rivets!

Edited February 26, 2013 by socom688

[socom688 217]

I would check for a piece of debri caught between the barrel extension and where it mates up to the upper receiver. If the barrel was inadvertantly installed with debri in the seam, it will cock the barrel very slightly. That's a pretty easy fix. Just remove the barrel, clean the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and lower receiver, and you're good to go. A more serious issue would be if there is debri trapped between the barrel extension and the shoulder on the barrel itself.

 

 

Tony

 

 

Oh man, I have never taken an AR barrel off. That might be above my pay grade!

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I would check for a piece of debri caught between the barrel extension and where it mates up to the upper receiver. If the barrel was inadvertantly installed with debri in the seam, it will cock the barrel very slightly. That's a pretty easy fix. Just remove the barrel, clean the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and lower receiver, and you're good to go. A more serious issue would be if there is debri trapped between the barrel extension and the shoulder on the barrel itself.

 

 

Tony

 

Oh man, I have never taken an AR barrel off. That might be above my pay grade!

Where are you in Florida?

If you're in the panhandle and can come to Mobile, AL, I have all the tools need to work on your AR, e.g. Upper/Lower/Barrel vice blocks, three different barrel wrenches, torque wrench, anti-seize and a bench vise.

[socom688 217]

I would check for a piece of debri caught between the barrel extension and where it mates up to the upper receiver. If the barrel was inadvertantly installed with debri in the seam, it will cock the barrel very slightly. That's a pretty easy fix. Just remove the barrel, clean the mating surfaces of the barrel extension and lower receiver, and you're good to go. A more serious issue would be if there is debri trapped between the barrel extension and the shoulder on the barrel itself.

 

 

Tony

 

Oh man, I have never taken an AR barrel off. That might be above my pay grade!

Where are you in Florida?

If you're in the panhandle and can come to Mobile, AL, I have all the tools need to work on your AR, e.g. Upper/Lower/Barrel vice blocks, three different barrel wrenches, torque wrench, anti-seize and a bench vise.

 

 

Thanks for offer Chile, but I am in central FL just north of Orlando .

[nlacy 692]

Sounds like a road trip to me!

 

When is the next Saiga 12 convention?

[Marc 147]

Check for debris around the barrel extension, like Tony said.

 

If that's not the problem, with the front sight canted to the left, I would tighten the barrel extension on the barrel by a fraction of a degree at a time until it lined up. You would need a GOOD set of barrel blocks and a barrel extension wrench, though.

 

If it where canted to the right I would NOT suggest loosening the extension to line up the sight.

 

(ETA: I stated this wrong, correct is below)

Edited February 26, 2013 by Barnett3006

[socom688 217]

Hmmm, as it sits now, doing what I call barrel surgery isn't an option. I don't have the tools and have never attempted that before. What about simply trying to pry the sight into the correct position by using a screwdriver as a lever through the post and giving it some tugs? I've read that a legit gunsmith on barfcom has done this? (I know barfcom isn't the most reliable source, but we can do that crap to our AKs, why not an AR?)

[Maxwelhse 1,285]

Hmmm, as it sits now, doing what I call barrel surgery isn't an option. I don't have the tools and have never attempted that before. What about simply trying to pry the sight into the correct position by using a screwdriver as a lever through the post and giving it some tugs? I've read that a legit gunsmith on barfcom has done this? (I know barfcom isn't the most reliable source, but we can do that crap to our AKs, why not an AR?)

 

screw

 

all

 

that

 

Either send it into the manufacturer again and lock horns with them again, or take it to someone that can issue it a full bill of clean health. What I was driving at all those posts ago is that by now I would be done with the OE (forever) and be looking to fix it without them. Or... Maybe the reselling dealer can help you out?

[Marc 147]

Check for debris around the barrel extension, like Tony said.

 

If that's not the problem, with the front sight canted to the left, I would tighten the barrel extension on the barrel by a fraction of a degree at a time until it lined up. You would need a GOOD set of barrel blocks and a barrel extension wrench, though.

 

If it where canted to the right I would NOT suggest loosening the extension to line up the sight.

I stated that backwords...

 

If your front sight was canted to the right you could tighten the extension to line it all up.

 

With your sight canted to the left you would have to loosen the extension, I wouldn't do that.

 

I suppose one could use some stainless .001" shim stock between the barrel shoulder and extension, and then torque it till the sights lined up...never heard of anyone doing this, however.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Barnett3006

[TonyRumore 1,332]

Maybe I misunderstood the issue, but I thought the gun was actually hitting point-of-aim with the rear sight position only being a couple clicks off center. That rear sight position is fine. So if that is the case, if you knock the front sight back to top-dead-center, it will no longer hit point-of-aim and you'll have to move your rear sight way off to one side to "hopefully" get it on target.

 

Those retainment pins in the front sight tower don't hold the sight perfectly straight every time, and will allow for some rotation if you hit the tower with a large dead blow hammer. I would suspect that when the upper was assembled, there was some sort of debri caught in the barrel extension seam, causing the barrel to be cocked to one side. When the assembler installed the front sight, he probably inserted a bore sight in the barrel, then knocked the front sight into alignment with the laser. Unfortunately, with the barrel cocked to one side, the front sight had to be jacked over as well to get it to hit point-of-aim. Knocking the front sight back to TDC, is just going to move the problem back to the rear sight.

 

Tony

[socom688 217]

Maybe I misunderstood the issue, but I thought the gun was actually hitting point-of-aim with the rear sight position only being a couple clicks off center. That rear sight position is fine. So if that is the case, if you knock the front sight back to top-dead-center, it will no longer hit point-of-aim and you'll have to move your rear sight way off to one side to "hopefully" get it on target.

 

Those retainment pins in the front sight tower don't hold the sight perfectly straight every time, and will allow for some rotation if you hit the tower with a large dead blow hammer. I would suspect that when the upper was assembled, there was some sort of debri caught in the barrel extension seam, causing the barrel to be cocked to one side. When the assembler installed the front sight, he probably inserted a bore sight in the barrel, then knocked the front sight into alignment with the laser. Unfortunately, with the barrel cocked to one side, the front sight had to be jacked over as well to get it to hit point-of-aim. Knocking the front sight back to TDC, is just going to move the problem back to the rear sight.

 

Tony

 

Yeah Tony that is making the most sense. That's gotta be it. The upper gets here tomorrow and after work I'll take a good look at it and measure to see if the entire barrel is crooked. If that's all the case, I think I'll just say screw it and keep it how it is. Maybe even cut the front sight down to run an extended quad rail or something. I'll post pics ASAP tomorrow afternoon for whoever is still interested.