Terminal Performance of the 7.62x39

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Ive seen vids supporting both sides of the argument on whether steel case sp 7.62x39 will expand or not. The wolf 125g sp seems to, i just hope tula 124g sp will as well. Seems like the 8m3 hp rounds tho, you gotta chase it around to find something that works, and hope they dont switch brands without telling you. :/

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Stopping is the aim here, or is mine at least. Certainly not hunting with FMJ or steel SP this side of whatever.

The Yugo mil-surp does fairly well if you can find any more.

 

If you want consistency in terminal ballistics then go to an American round, Remington or Winchester would be my choice with Remington greatly preferred.

 

Nothing wrong with steel SP or FMJ for long term storage or range work at all, quantity has a quality all its own, but for those special needs buy American.

 

Now if Remington or Winchester is proven inconsistent, then may have to do some serious re-evaluations.

Looking into it further now just to be sure nothing new has cropped up.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

BTW Thanks for resurrecting the thread Darth , love this shit.

 

Here is the GT test, did rather well for FMJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gknVTUd7tY

 

Hornady SST hand loads. Yeah I know its not steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jn6GiiVrcM

 

Now speaking of Bear Bear HP, here is a water test that had good results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wcgoGfMt_A

 

Lastly Silver Bear SP in gel, did well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfLZYnhT-w

 

I am thinking the medium varies too much between gels, water, and even pizza dough to give any real discussion ending results.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Rhodes1968

[Lone Eagle 839]

Different loads will perform differently. A true milsurp ball round is different to a commercially available ball round. Take the old Yugo M67 Ball round. If you look at the tip, you can see the tip looks offset. It is designed to yaw on impact. Take this video and see how the bullet travels.

 

 

Notice the yaw of the round in a relatively short distance, and the size of the air pocket it creates.

[XD45 7,124]

Ive seen vids supporting both sides of the argument on whether steel case sp 7.62x39 will expand or not. The wolf 125g sp seems to, i just hope tula 124g sp will as well. Seems like the 8m3 hp rounds tho, you gotta chase it around to find something that works, and hope they dont switch brands without telling you. :/

The real problem is that the euros don't always use the same bullets in the "same" loads. I have some Wolf hp that won't expand at all, but a previous case I bought fragmented violently. So if I was going to use imported ammo for defense or hunting I'd test each case lot for performance.

 

Stopping is the aim here, or is mine at least. Certainly not hunting with FMJ or steel SP this side of whatever.

The Yugo mil-surp does fairly well if you can find any more.

 

If you want consistency in terminal ballistics then go to an American round, Remington or Winchester would be my choice with Remington greatly preferred.

 

Nothing wrong with steel SP or FMJ for long term storage or range work at all, quantity has a quality all its own, but for those special needs buy American.

 

Now if Remington or Winchester is proven inconsistent, then may have to do some serious re-evaluations.

Looking into it further now just to be sure nothing new has cropped up.

Since you don't mention Hornady I will. That's my choice.

 

BTW Thanks for resurrecting the thread Darth , love this shit.

 

Here is the GT test, did rather well for FMJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gknVTUd7tY

 

Hornady SST hand loads. Yeah I know its not steel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jn6GiiVrcM

 

Now speaking of Bear Bear HP, here is a water test that had good results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wcgoGfMt_A

 

Lastly Silver Bear SP in gel, did well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jfLZYnhT-w

 

I am thinking the medium varies too much between gels, water, and even pizza dough to give any real discussion ending results.

As I mentioned, the loads themselves vary too much. The Golden Bear and Silver Bear loads that performed well appear to have copper jackets. The ones that performed poorly looked to have bimetal jackets. Same maker, same load, completely different bullets.

 

It looks like all the imported ammo is bimetal now.

 

For me the fact that the imported ammo is inconsistent is "discussion ending". I'll use it for practice and stick to US made when I need terminal performance (as Rhodes pointed out).

Edited August 15, 2013 by Darth Saigus

[Lone Eagle 839]

Hey, Rhodes, you tried any of the Federal Fusion yet? Local shop has it for $17/20, and looking forward to seeing the results in my Saiga. If it's as good as the Remington Core-Lok or Winny Super-X, that would be a plus. Hopefully they used the correct bullet diameter. Winchester learned the hard way a .308 bullet and a .311 bore don't make good friends.

[XD45 7,124]

Hornady SST fired from a 10" M92 into water jugs. Penetration was to the 5th jug. Expansion was violent but controlled.

 

I put the jugs back on the table, since the first 2 were blown off.

 

Using imported steel cases keeps price under $1 a round. I have seen it listed for as low as 0.60 but right now I don't see it in stock anywhere. Best bet is to get on the notify list for a few places.

 

Zombie Max appears to be the same bullet with a green tip instead of red. It comes in 20rd boxes and is often more expensive.

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2013 by Darth Saigus

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Hey, Rhodes, you tried any of the Federal Fusion yet? Local shop has it for $17/20, and looking forward to seeing the results in my Saiga. If it's as good as the Remington Core-Lok or Winny Super-X, that would be a plus. Hopefully they used the correct bullet diameter. Winchester learned the hard way a .308 bullet and a .311 bore don't make good friends.

 

Heh didnt even know it was made in x39. Might be worth a look. Check youtube?

 

 

Hornady SST fired from a 10" M92 into water jugs. Penetration was to the 5th jug. Expansion was violent but controlled.

 

I put the jugs back on the table, since the first 2 were blown off.

 

 

 

Good bullet, use in my 308 hand loads. Didnt know it came in commercial x39 , interesting.

 

Seems the variety of x39 has increased since last I looked.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Darth, the 8m3 bullet went from wolf mc 124hp to tula 124hp. Were you shooting an older case of wolf then switching to new? Ive done a bit of research on the 8m3 and so far have been lucky w the tula 124g hp ive acquired. Has the pre-fail cuts in the nose n everything. I totally agree with testing a few of each case to ensure fragging/expansion. When i take the sgl in the woods this fall ill probably use the herters brass case/boxer primed 123g sp (its supposedly ppu reboxed from what i hear) although after testing the wolf 125g im reconsidering somewhat. Only part that hangs me up on the decision is the fact that i dont have a testing medium thick enough to capture the bullet but the wolf125sp i have leaves a very noticable larger hole in the exit.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

After two days of viewing various tests I agree with Darth's position, consistency is everything.

No ammo is perfect but if one can rely on +90% of rounds doing as expected and expanding predictably its got to be a keeper.

Otherwise its range or SHTF ammo.

 

First the FMJ GT and Yugo mil-surp are constantly doing exactly as expected, tumbling within a couple of inches or so into impact.

Thats a keeper and the only FMJ I would fool with for my money.

 

The Wolf HP rounds did better than I would have thought, but seem to vary too much.

 

The song remains the same, you get what you pay for only if you do your homework.

I'm impressed how much good commercial American ammo has become available for the x39, good news there.

Hunt and SD with good American ammo, even hawgs deserve a swift death.

 

Thanks for the thread, going to be tweaking my stores due to this.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Rhodes1968

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Ok gonna water jug test the wolf 125gr sp and see if i can recover a bullet. Guess watermelons and phonebooks are out lol. Ill post results as soon as i can do it.

[XD45 7,124]

Water jug testing isn't perfect, but it has 2 huge advantages. It's cheap and consistent.

 

I like to fill my jugs 2/3 when I do jug testing. A full jug will split easier than a 2/3 full jug. It helps me see where the maximum energy was released.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Appreciate the advice man! Im stuck at work right now and if the rain holds off when i get home ill have results tonight.

[psl sniper 963]

Wonder how my stash of wolf 154 gr soft points will expand.

[BigChongus 765]

For some reason, I couldn't hit crap with the Remington SPs at 100yds. Every other ammo I tried was FMJ and I could easily keep all of my shots withing a 6" circle over irons, but I couldn't hit it at all with the Remington. Idk if the POI changed that much or if my rifle just doesn't like it for some reason. I don't recall the bullet weight on them, so I'm guessing that perhaps it was dropping more than the others.

 

GT and Klimovsk are the most Accurate I've run so far.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

For some reason, I couldn't hit crap with the Remington SPs at 100yds. Every other ammo I tried was FMJ and I could easily keep all of my shots withing a 6" circle over irons, but I couldn't hit it at all with the Remington. Idk if the POI changed that much or if my rifle just doesn't like it for some reason. I don't recall the bullet weight on them, so I'm guessing that perhaps it was dropping more than the others.

 

GT and Klimovsk are the most Accurate I've run so far.

 

i ran a test on my x39 years ago and the Rem PSP was accurate. You do need to zero with it as it is hot.

All rifles are different one of the others will like yours.

[XD45 7,124]

TargetSportsUSA has Hornady SST in stock. $35/50. Get it while you can.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Sorry it took me so long to get to testing the wolf 125gr sp, rain this year has almost driven me crazy. Well, at least it rained me outta work then stopped long enough to do this. I lined up 7 gallon jugs and filled 2/3 full per advice here. This shot was deposited in the fourth jug. What do yall think? Good to go or no?

Edited August 19, 2013 by LuPiN8oR

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

That will leave a mark

[XD45 7,124]

That looks like my previous batch of wolf hp. That's gtg for self defense.

[LuPiN8oR 333]

So darth, would you not consider that gtg on a deer? Btw the deer in the mtns here dont get too big, not like those up north. I do actually keep a 10 rounder w those in the ak just for hd. I figured thatd shut the boiler room down fast on a deer or man but am looking for opinions.

[XD45 7,124]

I prefer a bullet that stays together for hunting. Personal preference.

 

That would absolutely put a deer down hard if you put in in the vitals.

 

I use a turnbolt 308 or 270 for deer. Again, personal preference. I want 1000ft/lb out past 300yd.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Darth Saigus

[LuPiN8oR 333]

We should run our own saiga-12 ammo tests on the various x39 (and other calibers) that we have w pics! Ill sacrifice some of the herters brass/boxer 123gr sp next along with tula 124gr sp. Does anyone else wanna throw in on their ammo of choice?

 

Darth, around here in these mountains youll be hard pressed to make a shot past 150 yds max, realistically under 100. Further than that and thats where my s-308 w win superx pp comes into play (if i go down east n make a shot in a cornfield lol). Im hoping the herters sp stays in one piece moreso than the wolf did. But for shtf/hd, im pretty pleased with the results lol. I may take a deer w it yet just to see.

[JoeAK 337]

I've got four rounds I could test, though milk jugs is about all I have to test on.

 

Tula 124gr. HP (8M3, checked for the cuts)

 

Some old PMC 125gr. PSP

 

Wolf 154gr. SP

 

Federal Power Shok 123gr. SP

[psl sniper 963]

I've got four rounds I could test, though milk jugs is about all I have to test on.

 

Tula 124gr. HP (8M3, checked for the cuts)

 

Some old PMC 125gr. PSP

 

Wolf 154gr. SP

 

Federal Power Shok 123gr. SP

i would be interested in the wolf 154 grn soft point results (i have a few cases of the stuff)

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I think it's a matter of expectations.

 

We can't really expect the Russian ammo to perform like top shelf American rounds, we don't make all the good ammo in the world but we do make the best available this side of hand loads. Yeah it's expensive also which means any one stocking up will have mostly Russian and it's tough to say which Russian is best due to inconsistency in materials to keep the price down. A few rounds through gel or water wont really deal with that.

 

Like to see it though but thats just because this shit is fun.

[XD45 7,124]

Which is why the Hornady is in a class by itself. It's got cheap imported steel cases but premium US made bullets. Loaded Hornady ammo (when you can find it) is double the price of imported ammo but half the price of premium brass case ammo.

 

So it's either the best cheap ammo you can buy or the cheapest good ammo, depending on how you look at it. The only downside is not being able to reload the cases. Not an issue for me. I don't plan to load x39 ever.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

I keep toying with reloading of x39, some very interesting loads out there.

 

But compared to 308 which prob has the most options of any rifle round for loads the pickings are slim.

 

Maybe if I started shooting a higher end SKS that would change, at least it doesnt mar the brass.

 

Wouldnt take much to start, the die set, brass, and boolits as the powder and primers work for both and those are the difficulty now.

 

There I go thinking about it again.

 

The x39 just always seemed like more of a SHTF round than a marksman's.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Rhodes1968

[LuPiN8oR 333]

Id like to start reloading, seems thats the only way to get subsonic x39. Ive only heard of one source for it but dont even know if they still make it. Well, that, and id like to be able to reload just in case supplies get dried up even more than weve seen in the recent past.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

Never was clear on the purpose of slowing a rifle round down to @1100fps, would seem to lose all purpose.

 

If the "crack" is a major component of the noise as it is with a 22LR or a 9mm pistol that would make sense to eliminate it.

 

Interesting idea though, ever seen load data on such a round?