HotShot308 11 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 For those that have this, did you remove the internal BHO? Or keep it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nlacy 692 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 left it, 'cause why not? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Took mine out because I like less parts in any machine. Reduce the number of parts, and you reduce the total chances for a failure. *Make sure the trigger cannot move around on its axis. If there was space for the BHO lever, it needs to be filled with a washer of similar thickness. I simply never shaved any off the axis of my Tapco G2 double hook trigger, so this is not a problem. I installed a finger ledge for shooting-hand operation of the safety. These two combined are the perfect solution to safety problems for me. I need to put a rivet or two in the side of the reciever for a safety overtravel stop, and I'll have it just how I want it. I can leave the gun loaded at home with a full mag and slide locked. All I have to do is pick up the gun and throw the finger switch on the safety then pull the trigger. The wife can use the S12 very easily with an MD drum full of 20 low recoil rounds at the flick of a switch. No muss, no reloading... *Also, I cut my safety lever so the bolt is held ALL the way back. This allows it to slam home harder and more reliably. The Kreb's safety lever (in theory) will not do this as reliably, because the notch is so far forward. I really like mine a lot. Let me know if you have questions or want pics. ***Edited for clarity in red. - Thanks, Mullet Man! Edited February 27, 2013 by Nephilim7 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mullet Man 2,114 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Removed the BHO on my S12. Less parts = less chance of failure. The Krebs safety allows the bolt to slam home just fine, at least on mine. With minor filing in the notch in the safety, it will strip a round off the magazine and go into battery with no problem too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ender 12 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 No BHO. If you notch it this way, when you pull back and release the bolt it moves the safety to the safe position. No problems with reliability when released with the finger tang. Slick as whale snot on ice! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 If you notch it this way, when you pull back and release the bolt it moves the safety to the safe position. I don't quite follow... Help a slow guy out. How does the safety lever move to "safe" when the bolt is racked??? Wouldn't that effectively leave you with a single shot gun? I must have misunderstood. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ender 12 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) The bolt is locked open by the charging handle being held by the notch in the safety. The safety is postioned higher on the reciever than a normal safe positon to do this. If you pull the charging handle back fully from that position, the bottom of the handle rides the contour on the top of the safety and pushes the safety lever down into the proper safe position on the receiver. When you release the bolt, the gun is charged, safe, and ready to go. Basically there are two options from the locked open position, charge the gun by the handle which properly engages the safety, or charge the gun with the finger tang from a shooting position which disengages the safety in the process. Edited February 27, 2013 by Ender Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Whelp, I just did a video about safety mods. I am in favor of the factory BHO. There is nothing wrong with it unless you install the hammer with so much material removed that the bho has side play. People blame the BHO for sloppy fitting or installing parts made to be sloppy and generic. I do prefer to shorten the BHO tab that sticks out quite a lot though. I think it works better, and can be activated and released more naturally, and there is no harm in having both methods available. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) I removed mine. Added a custom extension on it too. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/85713-my-custom-safety/ Ender, do you mean the charging handle pushes the safety downward to the off position by racking it rearward? That's what my 223 Saiga does. My S12 pushes the safety down like that too, but not enough to disengage it. Edited March 1, 2013 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ender 12 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Corbin- Like your S12. The safety is pushed down to the detent for the safe position, it is not disengaged. Convenient if you rack a round in any position but one where you are ready to fire. If you are ready to fire, the finger tang will release the bolt and disengage the safety fully until it hits the cap screw stop added to the lower portion of the receiver. Very similar to the work you have done in the past, just with a very gradual ramp on the top to keep things smooth and consistent no matter how hard or soft you pull back on the bolt. For the same reason some weld was added on the back side to smooth the transition over contours in the original stamping and provide a wider contact area for the bolt handle to ride upon. Edited February 28, 2013 by Ender Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Beautiful work, Ender! Mine has a ... "less finished" look... Like I said, my notch holds the bolt all the way to the rear. I wanted that for reliability of going into battery I can stake my life on. I considered the ramp as you have done, but I prefer to have the bolt slam home with the safety off. Just my preference. Again, beautiful work! My rivets look like crap (first rivets I have ever used and set by hammer and drilled dimple in the edge of an anvil). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot308 11 Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Lots of good feedback on this so far... Thanks to Ender for the pics and GunFun for the video... very informative. I have ordered the tab from ak-builder.com and will convert mine myself. Nephilim7, yes, please post up pics of your's. I'm interested to see the difference in you relief BHO cut, vs the versions shown. Edited March 1, 2013 by HotShot308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheJoe90 27 Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Took mine out because I like less parts in any machine. Reduce the number of parts, and you reduce the total chances for a failure. *Make sure the trigger cannot move around on its axis. If there was space for the BHO lever, it needs to be filled with a washer of similar thickness. I simply never shaved any off the axis of my Tapco G2 double hook trigger, so this is not a problem. I installed a finger ledge for shooting-hand operation of the safety. These two combined are the perfect solution to safety problems for me. I need to put a rivet or two in the side of the reciever for a safety overtravel stop, and I'll have it just how I want it. I can leave the gun loaded at home with a full mag and slide locked. All I have to do is pick up the gun and throw the finger switch on the safety then pull the trigger. The wife can use the S12 very easily with an MD drum full of 20 low recoil rounds at the flick of a switch. No muss, no reloading... *Also, I cut my safety lever so the bolt is held ALL the way back. This allows it to slam home harder and more reliably. The Kreb's safety lever (in theory) will not do this as reliably, because the notch is so far forward. I really like mine a lot. Let me know if you have questions or want pics. ***Edited for clarity in red. - Thanks, Mullet Man! Do you have any concerns about the spring wearing out prematurely? I know that its not recommended to leave pistols in the slide locked back position. Also, not to derail the thread, but how full do you keep your mags? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 That just about tempts me to use that horrid dead horse gif. Springs can die from repeated cycles over compression, heat or corrosion. Leaving them compressed does no harm. This is settled mechanical science. Anyone reccommending that about pistols doesn't understand materials science. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 That's exactly right, GunFun. Thanks for putting that out there. Working on pics... Hopefully tomorrow! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rnemhrd 165 Posted March 3, 2013 Report Share Posted March 3, 2013 No BHO. If you notch it this way, when you pull back and release the bolt it moves the safety to the safe position. No problems with reliability when released with the finger tang. Slick as whale snot on ice! My AKM is set up like this, but comes off safety when released unlike the S12s. Insert mag and pull charging handle, let it fly. Gives a full run to strip the round off. I'm not a fan of the hole in the safety lever, but at the range I like the bolt back when empty so the fudds doe'nt give me the stink eye so I added the pull back ramp. Safety levers are cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hope these help. First pictures I have posted. Took me a while to get them right. I can take a straight-on photo of just the lever for use as a template if it is requested. It's kind of a hack job; I just sculpted with my Dremel until it was right. Seems the trick was a slight hook just over the front face of the charging handle. Otherwise the safety would fly to "fire" with a sharp bump to the bottom of the pistol grip! Glad I got that figured out... The bolt carrier group is within a 1/16" from the rearmost position (very reliable closing). I really like my safety now. I store my mag fully loaded with the bolt locked open as shown. Spring fatigue occurs with cyclic repetition (loading or unloading, among other things). Any time the spring is moved, it wears out a little. It is the way of things. Tip: It's easy to sketch on the lever with a pencil before cutting to visualize the proper shape and location. Go slow and check fit often. Show us what you wind up with! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Nicely done. Is that the AK builder/ cobra tab, or did you make it from scratch? One thing that I did with mine that I think adds to comfort is to position the finger tab such that it is level with the floor of the receiver when in the "fire" position Thus it is at a slight slope when on "safe", or "center safe" This makes a more comfortable place to rest your finger. It looks like that is probably how you have done yours, but it is worth noting because a few people have commented to me that they didn't consider the advantage and would have put it level when full "safe". This would leave your finger resting on the edge of the tab. Edited March 4, 2013 by GunFun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted March 4, 2013 Report Share Posted March 4, 2013 GunFun, Thanks for the complement! You are correct. I installed the tab to be level with the ground while on "fire". It works really well. I would also suggest installing it in a location that the tip of the finger reaches the forward end of the lever, so the shooter has full contact with the lever from a shooting grip. The lever I used is the "Solar Tactical AK Extended Safety Selector Tab". $12 for the lever and rivets. Google will find it for you, since they are not forum members. For those who want to do this: I drilled a round dimple in the edge of an anvil in order to hold the rivet heads while I peened (mushroomed) the rivets with a punch and hammer. The trick is many many taps as opposed to fewer blows. Also, I have found that it is far easier to use a cut-off wheel to rough-cut the safety lever bolt hold open notch, then grind smooth. My lever was very hard steel! I actually carefully used the cut-of wheel to smooth the cut as well. The trick is to keep moving smoothly across the entire notch in a buffing motion. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot308 11 Posted March 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 All great info!! Thanks guys... I started my conversion today, I've got the whole thing stripped down and the trigger group test fit, next is to degrease and Alum-oxide blast everything in prep for the cerakote. I'll be trimming up the safety lever for the BHO as well as setting up the tab... thanks for the tip on making it level with the receiver when in Fire position. I was wondering what a good angle would be. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 you mean trimming the BHO for the safety, right? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot308 11 Posted March 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 you mean trimming the BHO for the safety, right? Yes, I did that as well as trimmed a bit off the bottom of the BHO. I guess better wording of my previous statement would be like Nephilm7 stated... "trimming the safety lever bolt hold open notch" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbahus 0 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) delete Edited March 23, 2013 by kbahus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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