MS-12 4 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Please help a noob out; here's my situation: My S12 has a Galil charge handle that was professional installed by a reputable shop. Unfortunately this is the second time that it’s broken off! What gives? Is it possible that the system is “over-gassed” and it’s causing extra strain/vibration on it? Or is it more of just not having good enough welds on the piece/bad workmanship? The gun is under warranty with the shop and it was already fixed once, but now I’m going tohave to take it back again and wait for weeks/months without it the gun has been converted by the same shop and I have an autoplug on it. Added Pics: Edited February 28, 2013 by MS-12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Post a couple of pictures of the carnage so we can see where its failing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MS-12 4 Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 I will take some cell phone pics and post em up later today or tomorrow for you to see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Please help a noob out; here's my situation: My S12 has a Galil charge handle that was professional installed by a reputable shop. Unfortunately this is the second time that it’s broken off! What gives? They need to hire a welder that knows wtf he's doing... A weld should never break.. Did he V groove it and then weld, or just hold it up and tack it? Weld isn't penetrating. Edited February 27, 2013 by S12KS-K 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Is it possible that the system is “over-gassed” and it’s causing extra strain/vibration on it? I LOL'd thoroughly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MS-12 4 Posted February 27, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) LOL....yea I know I'm a noob. But that's why I'm here to learn from you guys I will post some pics of the weld job so you can see for yourself... Edited February 27, 2013 by MS-12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 LOL....yea I know I'm a noob. But that's why I'm here to learn from you guys I will post some pics of the weld job so you can see for yourself... It's all good man. It's just funny because if it was properly welded, it would likely hold a car up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Red Jacket weld perhaps? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barrage 33 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Red Jacket weld perhaps? I cant imagine any other scenario than a crappy weld job. The shop may have been reputable but it could have been a "Friday afternoon" job. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Red Jacket weld perhaps? I cant imagine any other scenario than a crappy weld job. The shop may have been reputable but it could have been a "Friday afternoon" job. Oh, I wish I had the photos... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ShadowFire 220 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes I have just now gotten into the welding portion of Machine Shop class. Fortunately for me, one of the students in the shop is certified as a welder for everything and is the son of the welding instructor. Just looking through the textbook, there are many ways and reasons to weld a certain way. I'm sure we have certified welders in here that can guide you. Show the pictures when you can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 A good weld is stronger than the base material. Knowing this leads me to believe... Well what you can figure out from there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Red Jacket weld perhaps? Hard to hold the laughter back there. I guess the cat is out of the bag... As per the OP, it's not a red jacket build. Edited March 1, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 The bold carrier is a casting, That's interesting. Didn't know the Russians started casting critical parts like that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MS-12 4 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Added some crappy cell phone pics. By the way, I was contacted by the shop and I am going to give it another go with them. At least they have good customer service Anyway, I added the pics just for reference if you all want to continue the discussion... Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 A good weld is stronger than the base material. Knowing this leads me to believe... Well what you can figure out from there. That is a crack on a weld... Just a observation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Looks to me like the charging handle broke away from the weld. They need to remove that charging handle and replace it with material of higher quality. This is the result of trying to weld cheap cast fittings without the proper procedure. Welding cast requires proper pre heat and subsequent heat treat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 send it off to pauly and have it done rite is what I would do. and get the awesome polish done Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 send it off to pauly and have it done rite is what I would do. and get the awesome polish done After getting a refund for the crappy original, and then repair, work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I have never even tried welding and know nothing but what I learned in Mechanical Engineering classes... What's the trick? Choose the proper rod, tack the piece together at the outside of the joint, v-groove it at the interface, then preheat and weld it smoothly while maintaining a little heat after for slow cool down so as to retain toughness rather than hard/brittleness? Just wanting a better understanding of practical welding. I would like to take it up sometime. Seems like a lot of fun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 My left hand titanium charging handle has never even shown the slightest sign of giving up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MS-12 4 Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) Titanium?! where did you get that from? or did you do it yourself? that sounds awesome... I hope my S12 grows up to be like yours some day Edited February 28, 2013 by MS-12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Titanium?! where did you get that from? or did you do it yourself? that sounds awesome... I hope my S12 grows up to be like yours some day I made it. It was interference fit. I added some weight to the carrier and wanted a left hand charging handle, so it worked out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Seriously, I have never been a fan of adding weight to the carrier or adding those vertical charging handles. It just isn't foolproof enough and you are pretty much screwed when they break. It is not easy to chamber a round with no handle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 (edited) They're pretty fool proof if you use quality materials and have a competent welder install them. I use 304ss, for the handle it's self and either 309l rods or Inco82 if i have any left from other projects. The resulting weld is far stronger than either base material. I also completely remove the factory handle, and weld my part directly to the carrier, with a 1/8 bevel on the handle to allow for proper weld penetration. To answer the question about pre heat and slow cool, they are always advisable but not necessary for all materials.This procedure is typically applied to parts that are subject to high vibration or pressure. It also improves the bonding process of certain alloys that are prone to cracks from rapid cooling, and in other cases prolonged heat treat can even improve an alloys ability to resist corrosion. I use the pre heat and slow cool for my application because I'm welding directly to the carrier, and do not want to stress it. Edited February 28, 2013 by poolingmyignorance 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I have never even tried welding and know nothing but what I learned in Mechanical Engineering classes... What's the trick? Choose the proper rod, tack the piece together at the outside of the joint, v-groove it at the interface, then preheat and weld it smoothly while maintaining a little heat after for slow cool down so as to retain toughness rather than hard/brittleness? Just wanting a better understanding of practical welding. I would like to take it up sometime. Seems like a lot of fun! I've known some amazing welders (seriously... impressive skills) and have asked that question to many of them. They all have the same answer: Practice. Without bad welders, there would be no good grinders! You know all the feedrate and heat penetration jargon from school, then all you're really lacking is the practice, which seems to be the only important part! Same boat I'm in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 the difference between a poor welder, and a great welder is a semi truck full of burned up stubs... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I think a lot of a good quality weld is knowing what kind of steel you are welding and the exact rod to use for each purpose. i am no expert but reaserch and practice is key. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) the difference between a poor welder, and a great welder is a semi truck full of burned up stubs... We're not allowed to "like" moderator posts? Well.. I'm going to like it anyhow! Edited March 1, 2013 by Maxwelhse Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Practice is important, but you can lay the finest beads with one type if material or in one particular size and completely suck at another. That's where your procedures cone into play, leaning your heat, your gas flow, (do you need back purge, or less gas if your using a smaller cup, maybe add a lense) what size gap do you require what sort of performance is this part expected? Yes the ability to move, and feed and control your arc are paramount but exotic alloys and high quality requirements can really complicate things. Most of which won't be required for gun parts but thus knowledge never hurts. Especially if you like to lay high strength narrow beads that require minimal effort blending. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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