Weakest Ammo Recommended?

[Tactical_T 6]

I finally got my mags, and have some time this coming Friday to pop my Vepr 12's cherry. At the moment, I only have 1 box of Federal 3 dram 1 1/8 shot with 1200 fps, but I'd like to buy another 100 shells. I know that the Vepr 12 will pretty much cycle most ammo, but I remember one of you all posting that some really light Walmart loads may not cycle with 100% reliability. One person actually recommended not bothering with any shells below are certain FPS or Dram. Can anybody remind me?

Edited March 3, 2013 by Tactical_T

[physicsnerd 139]

Some have said 1290 fps but I seem to be OK at 1200. Maybe try both and see what happens. You might get lucky!

[gunfun 3,931]

S12s and Veprs will reliably run 3 dram or more. If your's doesn't it will probably run 3 1/4 dram.

 

That means if the weight is at least 1 1/8 oz and the velocity is at least 1200 fps it should run. If either of those numbers gets smaller the other one has to get bigger. There are tables for working it out if you are unsure.

 

Even with Veprs there is some variation, although they are supposed to be a bit more consistent gun to gun.

 

If you want to find out what yours will run, maybe get Top gun 1 1/8 oz 1150 fps birdshot, 3 dram as above and 3 /14 dram top gun. That will give you a pretty good idea of what your gun likes.

 

I would still tune my gun to run it all, but untill you do so, at least you can establish a numerical baseline.

[Tactical_T 6]

Thanks for the info guys. I tried to pick up some different ammo today, but the Walmart shelf was bare.

[menace667 194]

I ran mine for the first time on Friday and tried 7 different types/weights of ammo in it. One recommendation is run something that will work through your mags before you test questionable ammo. New SGM mags need couple dumps to smooth the insides out, but they ran fine after that, so then start the test. I made the same mistake but mine even ran light target loads so I was pleased.

[Tactical_T 6]

I ran mine for the first time on Friday and tried 7 different types/weights of ammo in it. One recommendation is run something that will work through your mags before you test questionable ammo. New SGM mags need couple dumps to smooth the insides out, but they ran fine after that, so then start the test. I made the same mistake but mine even ran light target loads so I was pleased.

Yeah, I've read that new SGM mags take some break in. I'm gonna be testing two 8-round Molot mags and two SGM mags. If mine will cycle cheap Walmart ammo, I have no doubt that it will cycle the hotter stuff.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Full power loads shouldnt be an issue.

[mk4dubbin 0]

Wow, I wish I could get my Vepr12 to run on 3 1/4 dram loads.

[gunfun 3,931]

You can. Same deal as an S12. I don't think a bolt or carrier profile is likely to be needed, but reduce friction and increase gas as needed. V12s typically have 5 ports if my understanding is correct. Probably increasing them by steps of 0.01" is a good increment of adjustment per test.

[MAKAK47 21]

Federal Game load, its 1290 fps, 7.5 or 8 shot, only one failure to extract in hundreds of shells

[Tactical_T 6]

Just got back from my popping my Vepr 12's cherry with the two different shells below. I shot about 150-175 rounds total. There were more FTE's with the Wallmart ammo. I also had slightly better cycling results with the Molot mags than with the new SGM mags. Hopefully the SGM mags will break-in after a while as some have said. Next time I will also try some hotter shells, to include some 00-buck and slugs.

 

 

Walmart Winchester Universal .....1200 fps.....3 dram.....1 1/8 oz.....8 shot

 

Winchester Super X.....1325 fps.....1 oz.....6 shot

[kuston 9]

http://www.luckygunner.com/12-ga-2-3-4-00-buck-9p-1-18-sellier-bellot-250-rounds

 

Can someone help me figure out if this ammo will work for 00? The box lists dram as MAX, what is that? I see the weight is 1 1/8 but how does one find the fps? Anyone ever used this stuff? I'm thinking about buying a case or 2, would like to be sure it will work before I buy.

[gunfun 3,931]

I just spelled it out in another thread here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/86184-is-this-low-brass/?p=873932

 

I looked at the ad for the ammo you linked and found that it says on the box "max" dram where it should have listed velocity. That means it should run. Just to be sure, I cut and pasted the item number (manufacturer sKU) into google with FPS like this:

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=V212882U+FPS

 

Usually I would find at least one store or review in the first couple of clicks that would give me that info. This time I didn't.

 

This ammo should run though. A note on S&B Buckshot loads. It has a soft hull that is more vulnerable than most to the near mythical top round deformation if you leave it stored for a long time. Particularly with OOB, since the pellets leave big gaps between the places they reinforce the hull, and since S&B loads like this do not have a shotcup. I had a case a while ago of the 15 pellet OOB. It ran fine, and had a little less kick than equivalent loads of other brands. While I never did testing, you can expect that it wouldn't pattern as well as a load with a shot cup and buffer and hardened shot. I don't think that slightly reduced velocity is a bad thing with OOB, as it tends to over-penetrate anyway. However, if you are using it for HD, I suggest you store your gun with a mag inserted and bolt locked open.

[gunfun 3,931]

I just did some checking around to refresh my memory. for 2 3/4" shells "Max dram" usually works out to 3 3/4 dram eq. However, it varies since there is no official standard. So it generally will mean that it should run on #1 in an S12, but it gives no guarantee of a particular power or velocity.

 

SAAMI defines max pressures not silly dram eq.

 

Ammo manufacturers tend to stick to a certain level on the chart for what they call max, but that is no guarantee. It's kinda like what is size 9.5 for shoes. I can wear 9.5 nikes, or 10 reboks and expect that to be fairly consistent, but even within the brand the fit is not identical. It at least gives me an idea about what my feet will go into.

[DresNightfire 39]

I've beet shooting 100% reliability with 1290 and 1300 fps. Today, I shot a box of 1145 fps Federal Target and had only one FTE.

[gunfun 3,931]

Dres-- 1290 FPS of what? That's the point, with out weight velocity is meaningless and vice-versa.

[Tactical_T 6]

with out weight, velocity is meaningless and vice-versa.

I have a very limited understanding of shotshells. Can you elaborate on this a bit?

[gunfun 3,931]

Read here:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/86184-is-this-low-brass/?p=873932

 

It isn't the whole story, of course this tells you enough to be able to make informed ammo purchases by reading the box. Obviously it also tells you what info is useful to tell other people what is going on with your gun.

[DresNightfire 39]

Read here:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/86184-is-this-low-brass/?p=873932

 

It isn't the whole story, of course this tells you enough to be able to make informed ammo purchases by reading the box. Obviously it also tells you what info is useful to tell other people what is going on with your gun.

 

I've written about this is multiple threads about the load weights for the VEPR 12 as they should be no less than 1 oz. The best ammo guideline for the VEPR 12 is looking at the 12 gauge Wolf Ammo chart for 2 3/4" shells here:

 

http://www.wolfammo.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4&Itemid=15

 

I've compiled the 12 gauge 2 2/3" shells for your reference:

 

http://www.doitdarith.com/temp/vepr12/wolfammo12gaugevepr12.html

Edited March 11, 2013 by DresNightfire

[gunfun 3,931]

That's handy. From what I've heard, there is the same variation gun to gun with Vepr12s too, just not as much.

 

You should be able to run shells lighter than 1oz provided they are moving at sufficient velocity. Most commercial loads under an ounce are low velocity to reduce recoil. Keep in mind though that there are popular cheap roundball slugs that are a shade over 3/4 oz at 1400 FPS with more punch than standard 1 1/8 oz at 1200 FPS. I'd take a bet that a V12 that runs all the loads on the list you linked will run those too.

 

I wouldn't be going out of my way to find such light loads in shot, but a fast moving 7/8 oz slug is still a projectile to take seriously. I will probably be loading some of these eventually.

[Tactical_T 6]

Thanks for the info guys.....

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I ran Winchester Universal in mine from the start, in the 5 round mags.