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First Trip to the Range with the S20


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I took my precious, and my lady, to the range today for testing. A local shop in Charlotte converted it using FCG parts from CSS and the ATI adjustable stock w/ scorpion pistol grip. I brought the factory 2.75 in. mag, the clear 13-round aftermarket mag and the CSSpecs 10-round mag. The range is indoor so I was limited to slugs. I had five boxes of two different types of Remmington Sluggers:

 

1. 1/2 oz. high velocity rifled slugs

2. 5/8 oz. hollow point rifled slugs

 

The 5/8 oz slugs fired with no problem at gas setting 1. All 25 ejected from all mags with no FTE's.

The 1/2 oz slugs FTE'd nearly 50% of the time from all mags. I changed the gas setting to 2 and still saw the same issue.

 

So far, the 5/8 oz slugs work perfectly. I want to test out some 1 oz. #3 buckshot loads next so I'll have to wait till a trip to the outdoor range. The S20 turned some heads at the range today and my lady liked it as well. I handed it to a good 'ol boy in the bay next to our's testing out his 30-06 and he loved it. Next trip is all about tuning the optic. exciting.gif

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#3 buck. I looked at 000 and 00 first b/c there is a lot more info on those two loads but then I discovered that #3 buck is more common in 20 gauge shells due to the size of the pellets and the way they stack. Precision Reloading sells #3 buckshot but they are currently sold out. I ordered a 25 lb bag anyway so hopefully it will arrive in a few weeks. The Lee Load All press should be here in one to two months.

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Cool. I learn new things all the time. I suppose #3 must be common because the diameter lends itself to stacking well in the 20 ga shell. I wonder what the pattern and pellet count is. Are you making your own then generally? the lower pellet count per shell would make them even more cost effective, or more worth the bother of casting your own.

 

That should be a very good performer at around 1325 FPS...

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Cool. I learn new things all the time. I suppose #3 must be common because the diameter lends itself to stacking well in the 20 ga shell. I wonder what the pattern and pellet count is. Are you making your own then generally? the lower pellet count per shell would make them even more cost effective, or more worth the bother of casting your own.

 

That should be a very good performer at around 1325 FPS...

Yep, #3 buckshot is supposed to pattern well in 20 gauge shells b/c of the fit in the shell so I'm going to give reloading with this size pellet a shot. The youtube videos I have watched so far show 20 pellets with five alternating stacks of four pellets in a shot cup with some buffer. A 25 lb bag of #3 should reload 375 shells if my math is right. 20 pellets comes out to about an ounce of lead shot and the data from Hodgdon estimates 1220 fps with 18 grains of Longshot powder. I'm a complete noob at reloading so steer me in another direction if there are other/better ways to go about it. :)

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Good report! I am brand new to the forum and have found all the tips and advise valuable. I also took my Saiga 20 gauge out to a firing range in Monore, NC to give it a go.

 

I shot 20 rounds of 7/8 birdshoot low brass and 3 rounds of #3 buck shot. All performed flawlessly with a gas setting of #2. It took a couple of tries to learn how to seat a fully loaded 10 round magazine into the gun. My only problem was this is my first shooting of a long gun since I lost sight in my right (dominant eye) - So trying to get my left eye down on the stock to use the sights was impossible, going to look into some of the red dot and reticle sights that appear to be elevated above the normal sight line.

 

I have since converted the gun to the Kushnapup bullpup configuration for HD. I really like the way it made the gun more managable in confinded spaces. Plus my wife who had trouble reach both trigger and bolt lever in the stock configuration likes the configuration change. It naturally moves the CG of the weapon back quite a bit making it easier for her to manage. The only trying part of the effort was developing an butt extension so I would not have to cut off the stock mounting tangs.

 

I also added a KERBS Safety lever with a bolt hold back notch build into it - some ranges require you to carry the weapon with the bolt open.

 

file photo attached:

 

post-46809-0-74429800-1362576297_thumb.jpg

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Jody- I am relatively new to reloading as well, but that sounds like a plan. I would say to not trust powder charge info from youtube unless you can find a book load with the same hull,primer,powder, wad and charge weight. Also, Remington field grade is the cheapest commercial buckshot I could find. The Rem #4 B was more likely to have little defects and all were a bit undersized at 0.235" rather than 0.24". This actually makes it stack nicer in 12, but that is worth knowing. This may not be true for all shot sizes though. Hornady buckshot were exactly the specified size and perfectly round. They are supposed to be harder as well. I'm still happy with the cheaper stuff. So far I haven't come across a casting method fast enough to justify making my own so I expect to be using rem field.

 

Ed -welcome, and sounds like you have a fun setup. I'd like to try one of those sometime.

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Thanks for the tips GunFun. I've been looking at casting as well just in case people lose their minds and buy up ALL of the ammo. I would like to continue making trips to the range until ammo flows freely again.

 

Good report! I am brand new to the forum and have found all the tips and advise valuable. I also took my Saiga 20 gauge out to a firing range in Monore, NC to give it a go.

 

I shot 20 rounds of 7/8 birdshoot low brass and 3 rounds of #3 buck shot. All performed flawlessly with a gas setting of #2. It took a couple of tries to learn how to seat a fully loaded 10 round magazine into the gun. My only problem was this is my first shooting of a long gun since I lost sight in my right (dominant eye) - So trying to get my left eye down on the stock to use the sights was impossible, going to look into some of the red dot and reticle sights that appear to be elevated above the normal sight line.

 

Hi Ed! My stepbrother lives in Monroe so we should catch up some time at the range.

The high cap mags can be challenging to rock-and-lock so I usually pull the bolt back with my right hand and insert the mag with my left hand. Be careful using gas setting #2 with heavy buckshot and slug loads. I've read that it can cause damage that will eventually warp the cover. I can't confirm that with experience but maybe someone else on the forum can. I took a chance with the 1/2 oz. slugs since other slug loads and buckshot loads are 7/8 oz - 1 oz.

 

I had trouble using the iron sights with eye protection b/c the frame of the safety glasses was pressed into my face and moved around so I have no idea how you used your left eye with safety glasses. I wonder if you could use the side mount for an optic that sits on the left side instead of on top.

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Thanks GunFun, Jody

 

I purchased a red dot sight with an extended mount which I hope may solve the problem - or may just have to learn to shoot the long gun left handed - but, just don't like ejected casings crossing my line of sight.

 

post-46809-0-78472600-1362661757_thumb.jpg

 

 

I also installed a recoil buffer (plastic) that is suppose to prevent metal fatique from the bolt slamming back - not certain how valid the claim is but the price was cheap. I have not shot any slugs and only three #3 buckshot on the #2 setting, but will try it on the #1 setting and see if any problems develop with insufficient gas to power the bolt.

 

Yes, Jody, perhaps in the near future we can arrange to meet at one of the local ranges.

 

GunFun the conversion is pretty straight forward, only the need to cut off the stock mounting tangs complicated things - as I did not want to do that. I understand that the manufacture is considering a new Kushnapup stock that does not required that operation. But with some butt extension pieces and a little cut and whittle, it worked out.

 

 



Hi Jody,

 

I added a new safety lever with a notch for holding back the bolt - so that should help considerably with the loading of magazines - with the bolt back, it makes it much easier to get the Mag inserted without having to push hard enough to depress the first round in the magazine.

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  • 8 months later...

 "I also installed a recoil buffer (plastic) that is suppose to prevent metal fatique from the bolt slamming back - not certain how valid the claim is but the price was cheap "

 

.....I was going to get an in expensive buffer myself - but when I did some digging on the internet , I found that more folks recommended NOT using one because of the damage it can do to the gun ! 

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Hey Jody, Ed, & Mike- I'd missed the last few posts 

 

The buffer will not damage a saiga or other AK. This may be different on other kinds of firearms, but it is not an issue here. It's one of those over-hyped issues that people talk in ALL CAPS ABOUT AND GET UNNECESSARILY ANGRY.

 

I use a soft one (blue blackjack brand) which I made a little thinner in one of my 12s.I don't have one in the other, and I think either way is OK. I'd put one in the other too, but It hasn't been a huge concern to justify the shipping. Some people have had issues with buffers affecting cycling, because their bolt was not reaching full stroke or was rebounding off of the buffer. It's a zero harm issue. Either it causes no trouble and you leave it in, or it causes cycling issues and you remove it. Some people think it is "a solution in search of a problem"... It also probably has a minor cushioning effect to the felt impact of the carrier cycling. One valid criticism of some hard brittle buffers is that they can break and become debris in the action. My answer to that is simple: 1, so buy a good pliable one like blackjack. 2. I'm not sure that I could ever wear mine out, but if it were an issue, the wear would become obvious thousands of cycles before it actually disintegrated. I clean my gun after I go shooting, so that's a non-issue. 

 

My thought is that a buffer is insurance against running hot shells on the wrong setting unintentionally. A few times I've gone to the range and friends used my guns.. and friends who knew better forgot to switch gas settings and ran 3" mags on #2. I'd have noticed that on the first shot. The gun wasn't harmed, but that sort of thing is cumulative. I'm less worried about the rear trunion than the bolt carrier, to be hones. A new trunnion is ~$20. An R&R carrier is $250.

 

Jody- If you do decide to cast, get the lee 4-20 pot. I really wish I had gotten the bigger pot instead. I think the only source of #3 Buck molds at the moment is buckshotmolds      .com. I don't have either, but if I were to buy buckshot molds, I like the design of the Lee mold better. p.s. I did a video on mag changes.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vMVgvKxFkM&feature=youtu.be. I realize that it might be a bit trickier having to reach rearward, but it might be a little easier to hold the gun steady due to the weight location. Maybe you can do some practice and put up a vid once you get the technique down?

 

Ed. I've read a few guides on the kusnapup installs, so I get the idea. It looks as though there are some parts that are easy to break off inside. I think your solution for the scope riser is needed. I honestly can't believe they took so long to get that product to market and yet still managed to overlook a built in provision for a rail at the right height. The fact that the rail is an extra piece would be infuriating to me if I had been one of the people getting the multi-year run around. I'd still like to try one, but If I were to pup a 12 or a 20, I think I would want to try my hand at doing it from scratch.

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