Eric Pate 478 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Just saw this on The Firearms Blog: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/06/saiga-mk-107-the-civilian-ak-107-with-balanced-recoil-arrives/ Izhmash will debut the long anticipated Saiga MK-107 at the IWA show in Germany tomorrow. This gun is the first ever civilian-legal variant of the AK-107 / AK-108 with its famous balanced recoil system. The balanced recoil system moves a counter weight forward when it pushes the piston/bolt carrier back. This counteracts the force of the bolt carrier slamming against the rear of the receiver and against the chamber. The animation below demonstrates how it works. The MK-107 also features some improvements over the original AK-107. The standard AK charging handle has been replaced with a rounded, more ergonomic, handle. The iconic AK selector switch has been replaced with a button-style safety above the trigger guard. The AR-15 syle pistol grip and stock are made by Israeli firm CAA Tactical. Also unlike the original AK-107, the MK-107 features a full length top picatinny rail. In its current form it could not be exported to the USA but I expect we will see it arrive in the near future. It could be imported a sporterized form (no pistol grip), or imported as a parts kit with the final manufacturing done stateside. This gun would fly off the shelves! Exciting stuff! Never thought we'd get a 107 over here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Remek 771 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Sweet! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) I'll buy one. ETA: I'll take the sporter model over a parts kit though. Edited March 6, 2013 by Captain Hero Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 It looks like it takes AR mags is that true Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 The one pictured is a 5.45 mag. Far from an AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Interesting concept. Wonder what that counterweight doohicky being attached to the barrel like that does to harmonics? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shankspony 40 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 I'm liking it... certainly turns my head. It would have to get rave reviews to get a seat next to my IZ-332 though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 Interesting concept. Wonder what that counterweight doohicky being attached to the barrel like that does to harmonics? It should reduce felt recoil and eliminate muzzle rise substantially, and could easily increase the accuracy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 (edited) MK-107C. That's better. And yeah they'd have to redesign the counterbalance but given the semi-auto limitation of the imported version, I can't see the added weight and complication being worth the reduction in recoil. I mean, it's a 5.45 ferkrisake. Edited March 6, 2013 by Darth Saigus 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hutchsaiga 93 Posted March 6, 2013 Report Share Posted March 6, 2013 ehh to many rails for my taste. not crazy about that stock and pistol grip either. i wonder if it would except more standard style AK stocks and grips.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) not really interested. please send us more standard AKs. a Saiga .223/SGL 5.56 with a factory AR mag adapter would sell like hot cakes. hint hint Izhmash. I know they have an adapter because they've shown video of it being used with the Vepr .223 on their own Youtube channel. Edited March 7, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I hope with all those rails it still features the side rail as well... You could put 10 or 12 optics on that thing and still have room for a couple of flash lights, a survival kit, and a compass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 since when do you need a compass when you have an AK? throw it in the nearest water and see which way the muzzle points when it hits the bottom. now you have north. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MT Predator 2,294 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 I'll buy one. ETA: I'll take the sporter model over a parts kit though. You'd have to get rid of the Israeli furniture to free up the parts count anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 The only rail I care about is the one on the dust cover, and thats likely the only one that will make it into the country. I'll buy one. ETA: I'll take the sporter model over a parts kit though. You'd have to get rid of the Israeli furniture to free up the parts count anyway. Yeah, thats true too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raidersfan_5544 57 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 (edited) Interesting concept. Wonder what that counterweight doohicky being attached to the barrel like that does to harmonics? Good Question... Edited March 7, 2013 by raidersfan_5544 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 tacticool kitch. sounds like a load of crap. some importer will show an izhmash with israeli funiture all over it. since when did izhmash collaborate with CAA? oh well, another platform. here we go... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dunedain 44 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It's cool and all, but tell them to get a million more regular AK's in various calibers here first, then wory about new models.. =) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It will be interesting to see if this really happens. The blog has one source known as "peter". Ok, well most everybody lists what they have so the buyers can find them on the grid. Here is their listing at this show. http://www.ask-iwa.info/index.php5?id=140724&fid=56904e5516bafdaae06b42b4c3b1b62b&offset=0&highlight=izhmash&bc_id=56fd11a6c41ca394ac4adee133b6f153&compact=0&tblank=&path=Home&Action=showCompany CAA has nothing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 That appeals to me. The thing I always want in any repeater is to stay on target at medium range while workign the trigger fast. If you could keep the cross hairs on something at 150 yards and snap off 3 fast shots without losing the target that would be great. 5.45 is pretty close to this anyway. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 That appeals to me. The thing I always want in any repeater is to stay on target at medium range while workign the trigger fast. If you could keep the cross hairs on something at 150 yards and snap off 3 fast shots without losing the target that would be great. 5.45 is pretty close to this anyway. This is where the recoil system will shine IMO. Not much recoil, but add less muzzle rise with rapid fire succession and its a clear win for several roles. But as for others wanting more AK's, well I do too, but sadly, the production of the AK-12 has likely put a halt on most of the Saiga production. Im rather glad to see Izhmash bringing us more products. I think its great for the company that they are bringing us diversity in their product offerings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It could make for a sweet .308 with the right brake. I wonder how much extra weight that counterballance system adds. If it were lighter than the bolt but operating on a piston diameter such that it moves faster, that could keep the weight down. Plastic bumpers could prolong service life too. tacticool kitch. sounds like a load of crap. some importer will show an izhmash with israeli funiture all over it. since when did izhmash collaborate with CAA? oh well, another platform. here we go... Disagree completely, except for CAA. Hitting targets rapidly on followup is as functional as it gets. The mag funnel is an improvement, but I agree with the above comment about demand for a factory STANAG mag adapter model being a good candidate for sales. Why not both? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwelhse 1,285 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 since when do you need a compass when you have an AK? throw it in the nearest water and see which way the muzzle points when it hits the bottom. now you have north. I had no idea that the AK was such a perfect weapons platform that it was at one with the Earth's magnetic poles. Shame on me for ever thinking otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 7, 2013 Report Share Posted March 7, 2013 It could make for a sweet .308 with the right brake. I wonder how much extra weight that counterballance system adds. If it were lighter than the bolt but operating on a piston diameter such that it moves faster, that could keep the weight down. Plastic bumpers could prolong service life too. All the info I could find on the '107 is that it weighs in at around the same as a Vepr rifle. A tad over 8 lbs. Not too bad considering most of us here are used toting around a heavier weapon as it is. Id like to see one in 7.62x39, but I doubt that its available yet in anything other than 5.45 and 5.56. The 108 is the 5.56 variant. http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/ak108.shtml Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Heres the info from Izhmash's website about the 107. I was wrong on the weight, but still kinda close with a loaded mag. http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/ak107.shtml Edited March 8, 2013 by Captain Hero Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 It could make for a sweet .308 with the right brake. I wonder how much extra weight that counterballance system adds. If it were lighter than the bolt but operating on a piston diameter such that it moves faster, that could keep the weight down. Plastic bumpers could prolong service life too. tacticool kitch. sounds like a load of crap. some importer will show an izhmash with israeli funiture all ove since when did izhmash collaborate with CAA? oh well, another platform. here we go... Disagree completely, except for CAA. Hitting targets rapidly on followup is as functional as it gets. The mag funnel is an improvement, but I agree with the above comment about demand for a factory STANAG mag adapter model being a good candidate for sales. Why not both? It We disagree on a lot of stuff but thats cool. The rails are excessive and add weight. The counterbalance adds weight and is not necessary on an auto loader. It will help a little more with an automatic but, this is a 5.45x39... A good compensator and practice leads to quick target acquisition after a shot. The safety is less gi proof in a stressful situation and the silly stock is too low to work with an optic on the rail. But, what do I know about infantry weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XD45 7,124 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) But, what do I know about infantry weapons. OK I'll play. What do you know about infantry weapons? Note: I did not say you DON'T know about infantry weapons. It's more my point that we (or at least I) don't know what others do or don't know. Except in the rare case that I know someone on a forum I am limited to taking their arguments on the merits. Your arguments in this case seem perfectly reasonable. In fact you mirrored my point from above about the counterbalance not being needed in a semi auto 5.45x39. Edited March 8, 2013 by Darth Saigus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I guess what I am getting at is that since those rails are mostly integral rather than a tacked on part over the receiver they are adding very little weight and they save the weight of side rail. It's going to be close enough not to bother me. Being able to solidly mount scopes where ever I want and have a long sight radius trumps. So does having a rear iron sight that allows me to aim and see what I am aiming at simultaneously (I prefer a peep sight to AK rear blade. It just blocks out most of the skyline from view right where I need to see it most, and lets me look through a tiny little window. That all leads to slow aiming and tunnel vision.) Fast target re-acquisition through practice is great and all, but how can you not prefer not losing sight alignment on the target in the first place? So it is a light caliber Semi not a belt fed machinegun-- the principle is still good, and it can be applied to other chamberings. When is staying on target a bad thing? If I could make a 50BMG recover like a .22lr, I would. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want the same thing from 5.45x39 too. And I don't really care what uses infantry might have for a weapon. I am interested in how I would use it. The civilian enthusiasts have almost always had superiority weaponry to what the various militaries in the world choose to issue to their grunts. I am sure infantry would be packing very different gear if each soldier was given a firearms allowance and given a chance to choose his own gear. (Obviously logistics wouldn't allow this kind of thing, but you take my point) Edited March 8, 2013 by GunFun 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 Interesting concept. Wonder what that counterweight doohicky being attached to the barrel like that does to harmonics? It's hard to say what an out of tune counterweight would do vs an in tune one, and how much variation there is between the two. would changing to a hotter load throw it off... However, That extended gas tube-ish thing amounts to a big truss. I bet that barrel is much more rigidly tied to the frame and has a lot less flex. They might even be able to get away with a thinner barrel and save weight for just that reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
storm6490 2,768 Posted March 8, 2013 Report Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I guess what I am getting at is that since those rails are mostly integral rather than a tacked on part over the receiver they are adding very little weight and they save the weight of side rail. It's going to be close enough not to bother me. Being able to solidly mount scopes where ever I want and have a long sight radius trumps. So does having a rear iron sight that allows me to aim and see what I am aiming at simultaneously (I prefer a peep sight to AK rear blade. It just blocks out most of the skyline from view right where I need to see it most, and lets me look through a tiny little window. That all leads to slow aiming and tunnel vision.) Fast target re-acquisition through practice is great and all, but how can you not prefer not losing sight alignment on the target in the first place? So it is a light caliber Semi not a belt fed machinegun-- the principle is still good, and it can be applied to other chamberings. When is staying on target a bad thing? If I could make a 50BMG recover like a .22lr, I would. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want the same thing from 5.45x39 too. And I don't really care what uses infantry might have for a weapon. I am interested in how I would use it. The civilian enthusiasts have almost always had superiority weaponry to what the various militaries in the world choose to issue to their grunts. I am sure infantry would be packing very different gear if each soldier was given a firearms allowance and given a chance to choose his own gear. (Obviously logistics wouldn't allow this kind of thing, but you take my point) Well, the rails are slap on crap and even if you did put your nice rear sight aperture on there with a nice front sight post it would be about as accurate as any other ak that flexes like a noodle between those two points. If you were to put back up iron sights on the weapon shown above, you would need figure out how you get your cheek up another two inches. The stock is completely retarded. The rail system is basically tacked on to the existing parts. You can see the poor rear sight blade covered up in the photo. Rear sight apertures are great and I prefer to use them as well but not on this platform. Really, the only thing I ever used on the AK platform was the front sight post at short distances. Muscle memory and a good cheek weld pretty much eliminates the need for me to confirm with blade. Target shooters like to get right back on target. That's cool. Rifleman tend to move on to the next target and trust their shot placement. A compensator on the 5.45 platform if properly tuned will counteract the g-d awful twist and rise of the bolt. The counterweight is not a new idea and is actually a really good design in this upgraded 74m variant. It's almost completely useless and of no advantage to a auto loading platform and was intended to prevent the rise and twist of the 74m while on burst or full automatic. If you applied a counterweight to a larger caliber, it would be an even more considerable weight gain and would require more gas to push the counterweight and bolt reducing the velocity of the bullet. I'm positive we would have issued this if it worked. Fortunately for American troops, we usually get really good shit. From the FN contract M16A2 I was first issued to the beautiful M-24. It would be really hard to find a private weapon that would hold up to the abuse of war and shoot as accurate after so many rounds. Sure there are better rifles out there for private shooters but rarely do you see people walking around with a Surgeon Scalpel or H&S that could keep up with a GI 700 M-4. "civilians" having better weapons that the military does not apply to Americans. It would to many third world countries. What does a grunt do when the go private? They ditch the 5.56 for a 7.62 and get paid. p.s. the more I look at the rifle shown by the OP and the blog, the more it looks like a photoshop job. Let's see if we get any photos of it from today's show. Edited March 8, 2013 by Stryker0946 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.