Saiga's Home Perimeter Defense - Recommended Scope IYHO

[redrocker35 9]

As you will soon see, I am quite new to semi auto rifles and my new Saiga. I've read hours of much needed info here on the forum, but haven't found a clear answer to the question I pose. I plan to use my Saiga for fun and sport as well, but the main reason for obtaining this fine piece of workmanship is to defend me and my own, if ever it becomes necessary on our 5 acre slice of heaven, We have adequate cover and several trenches in which to train and defend from. I know a lot of you feel the same way. I plan to do a trigger conversion next week and mount a scope. For those of you using your Saiga for home defense, what type of scope would you recommend for this scenario?

[Ronin38 2,117]

If it's going to be primarily 100-yds. or less you're planning for, I'd go with a red-dot/reflex sight myself. I have several kinds, including an EOTech 512 (expensive, but very nice!), and I just got an Ultimate Arms Tactical Sight. (very inexpensive, but looks good so far...)

[YOT 3,743]

On a 5 acre lot, you really don't need a scope, especially for the scenario you presented. Scopes are primarily needed for accuracy at long ranges, such as taking game with one shot, sniping, and target shooting. For battle, open sights and lots of ammo down range is preferred. One thing with a scope, especially for HD, if the target is too close (like in a home invasion type situation) it's harder to acquire a good sight picture.

[redrocker35 9]

On a 5 acre lot, you really don't need a scope, especially for the scenario you presented. Scopes are primarily needed for accuracy at long ranges, such as taking game with one shot, sniping, and target shooting. For battle, open sights and lots of ammo down range is preferred. One thing with a scope, especially for HD, if the target is too close (like in a home invasion type situation) it's harder to acquire a good sight picture.

 

I appreciate everyone's feedback, In my original post, I was unclear about which niche I needed the Saiga to fulfill. Lets just say that I have CQC scenario's under control. (Judge-Nitromag-M&P9-ect) Although I wouldn't mind being able to clear a room with the Saiga, but the property's outdoor Perimeter control would be its main purpose. (hence the trenches & well planned out cover for target practice, not to protect a bunker or anything like that I've seen a couple red-dot/reflex with laser (EOTech® EOLAD-1V) as well, what benefits would this add, or would it over complicate things?

 

If it's going to be primarily 100-yds. or less you're planning for, I'd go with a red-dot/reflex sight myself. I have several kinds, including an EOTech 512 (expensive, but very nice!), and I just got an Ultimate Arms Tactical Sight. (very inexpensive, but looks good so far...)

The EOTech would make it a tack driver, but quite a bit out of my budget at this point, how much use have you given the Ultimate Arms Tactical Sight thus far? I've taken a look at it and it looks promising, I'm a little concerned about how long it can withstand constant concussion.

Does anyone else know of another tried and true dependable "low to mid-range" red-dot/reflex? Which color/tint lens works for you would be interesting to know as well.

[Ronin38 2,117]

I'll be putting the UA sight on a different rifle, and I'm waiting for the rail to come in...

 

It's going onto a Rossi M92 lever action .44 Mag. My eyesight doesn't like irons too much these days, so an optic is kind of a necessity.

[jerry52 893]

Busnell red dot on my saiga 223 is what I use . Its all you need

[josey88 21]

I have the Leatherwood CMR tactical 1-4x24 30mm scope . It has an iluminated reticle and it is range calibrated for .223 cartridge . It is an amazing little scope , but kind of expensive , at $320.00

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

What ever red dot or scope you go with get a quick release mount for it. If the battery craps out or the scope gets damaged you can take the scope of is just a few seconds and revert to iron sights. It's a huge benefit of of the AK scope rail that many over look.

[jerry52 893]

Thats a great point and if you have (2) you can interchange red dot for scope and not lose zero.

[thebuns1 4,323]

Id run a red dot or a reflex. They will do great out to around 200 yds. I run a Trijicon Reflex on my SGL. One thing I would look for is a low mount. The height over bore isnt really an issue, just make sure you learn your hold overs/under for different ranges from your zero.

[jerry52 893]

I shoot 556 so 200 is about it

[Sunset_Va 2]

Try a Nikon P223, a fixed power , small high quality optic, meant to be used with both eyes open.

Under $200, excluding mount, I have one with Warne quick release mounts, just make sure your mount will let you mount it further back for proper eye relief, as most low power scopes don't have long eye relief distance.

 

Plus it's calibrated for the .223 cartridge, very crisp and clear glass, with P4 type recticle.

 

Nikon makes a mounting system for the P223, I didn't like it, because it slides onto your rail instead of clamping onto during installation.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Sunset_Va

[jerry52 893]

Calibrated for the .223 cartridge is a bit misleading if you shoot more than 55 gr but the scope works okay. I went back to a red dot because it is fast.

[redrocker35 9]

Busnell red dot on my saiga 223 is what I use . Its all you need

 

Which Bushnell are you recommending, the Trophy Red Dot First Strike or the Tactical Elite 1x32 Red/Green T-Dot? They both look great, maybe both with a quick release mount? Dream big I say!

 

 

 

What ever red dot or scope you go with get a quick release mount for it. If the battery craps out or the scope gets damaged you can take the scope of is just a few seconds and revert to iron sights. It's a huge benefit of of the AK scope rail that many over look.

Knowledge is power, and I appreciate those of you that share that power with the rest of us. That being said, is a quick release something I would mount between my Top Receiver Cover Tri-Rail and scope, or should I stick with my side detachable scope mount?

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

An excellent compromise between high end and low end Red Dots is the Vortec SPARQ at $200. Look around (Military Arms Channel Review) and you can get 10% off. I have 3 EoTechs and a couple of Vortec SPARQ's. Very nice and sturdy for the money. Invest in aftermarket flip covers as the bikini covers are crap.

[SgtRaven 531]

Great suggestions!

Hopefully, by now you're totally confused (just kidding: freedom of choice could come at the price).

 

Scale your budget. If you can afford it, start with brand our Military is using (EOTech, Trijicon, Aimpoint, etc).

Scale your primary range of operations.

If it's in-house, E-CQB, then go with most intuitive, heads-up type acquisition optics, starting with reflex sights, then large tube red/green dot.

Even for property "patrol", good reflex sight will get you covered, unless you're shooting coyotes or wild boars (zombies are slow) beyond 100 meters. (You still can get them with quality reflex at and beyond, but zoom or fixed magnification scope will put you on target faster and save your precious ammo).

 

If budget is tight, look at quality brands like Burris, Vortex, etc.

Don't forget Russian Military OEM optics: it's a bargain at its price and built like a tank (and often looks like one).

At lower pricing range there is great "scaled down" optics from Primary Arms: quality built stuff with excellent customer service.

 

If you need to cover both (house and range), then get 2 types of scopes (CQB and short/mid range), mounted and zeroed on individual QD mounts, keeping reflex or large field of view red dot on as primary, and zoom (1-4x) or fixed magnification (2, 3 or 4x; ACOG type) for beyond the house AO as secondary.

 

Good luck,

Happy Shooting!

Edited March 20, 2013 by Sgt. Raven

[redrocker35 9]

You all have made it easy to figure out what to use to help protect my own, I and those I hold dear, owe you many thanks.

[Jaba1017 71]

Irons - they work in the heat, the cold, the rain, the snow etc, they don't need batteries and don't break or lose zero. A 3 - 9x mildot mounted on a side rail is handy for surveying greater distance when needed.

[SgtRaven 531]

Irons - they work in the heat, the cold, the rain, the snow etc, they don't need batteries and don't break or lose zero. A 3 - 9x mildot mounted on a side rail is handy for surveying greater distance when needed.

 

Excellent point!

That's where we should have started.

Seriously.

Use of any optics should be complimentary to developed skills with "irons".

 

Too many people jump straight to optics, all the way to the "active" one (with built-in rangefinder, placing the dot into "no-fail" zone, leaving you with the only task left: pulling the trigger).

I've seen knocked out and failed optics, and confusion it caused.

 

Admitting the guilt: it was a while when I removed the optics and tested the "manly" skills of running the irons.

Back to basics...

Edited March 31, 2013 by Sgt. Raven

[redrocker35 9]

Irons - they work in the heat, the cold, the rain, the snow etc, they don't need batteries and don't break or lose zero. A 3 - 9x mildot mounted on a side rail is handy for surveying greater distance when needed.

Irons - they work in the heat, the cold, the rain, the snow etc, they don't need batteries and don't break or lose zero. A 3 - 9x mildot mounted on a side rail is handy for surveying greater distance when needed.

 

Excellent point!

That's where we should have started.

Seriously.

Use of any optics should be complimentary to developed skills with "irons".

 

Too many people jump straight to optics, all the way to the "active" one (with built-in rangefinder, placing the dot into "no-fail" zone, leaving you with the only task left: pulling the trigger).

I've seen knocked out and failed optics, and confusion it caused.

 

Admitting the guilt: it was a while when I removed the optics and tested the "manly" skills of running the irons.

Back to basics...

Very good point, I've always worked with my irons up till now because I had never wanted to part with how much $ a good reliable scope would put me back. Thanks for the input, I will keep this in mind once I place optics on a side rail, letting it compliment my training and not become dependent on a scope alone.

Has anyone had any experience a Kobra Military Red Dot AK 1S-03 rifle scope w/ universal AK & SVD side mount, they have an open, L-shaped frame with the lens at the front and looks as if it would make a great combo with my next build. I've heard a couple great claims, but thought I would test the waters with real world long term owners before I made up my mind.

[Jaba1017 71]

Consider this for defense of your property. An average running speed is about 10 mph, which means a would be attacker is going to cover 100 yards in 20 seconds or less depending on their ability. It the iron sights it only takes a couple of seconds to disengage the safety, chamber a round, and bring the rifle to battery where you can fire. Even just aiming with front sight as a guide you are likely to score a hit on a man sized target within 100 yards.

 

Now if you add removing lens covers and turning on a red dot to the equation you may or may not get a shot off before you are over run. So a red dot isn't necessarily going to allow for faster target acquisition in all situations. Starting with a cold rifle, and an unsuspected attacker, nothing is going to battery faster than the irons.

[SgtRaven 531]

Has anyone had any experience a Kobra Military Red Dot AK 1S-03 rifle scope w/ universal AK & SVD side mount, they have an open, L-shaped frame with the lens at the front and looks as if it would make a great combo with my next build. I've heard a couple great claims, but thought I would test the waters with real world long term owners before I made up my mind.

 

Run following web search for write-ups and pictures: "TX-Zen Kobra".

TX-Zen knows his stuff and this particular scope.

 

Glowing overall reviews.

If you get it, make sure you share your experience.

[Jaba1017 71]

I have a PKS 7 on my Saiga .308. I've been pleased with quality of that optic. I wouldn't hesitate on a Obzor or Rakurs, both of which get good reviews. I'd do a little more research on the Kobra because those got some sorry reviews when they came out. The price has come down a lot on the Kobra,

[Sdustin 578]

Id say try a 1-4x like the vortex PST. It's a sweet csipe but not cheap but not crazy either (500). And at 1x it will be faster than irons. Don't keep any covers and you don't have to turn it on it point and shoot. Only two thing to focus on the cross hairs and the target. Unlike irons where you must focus three parts. Target,front, and rear sight.

[liberty -r- death 1,445]

Busnell red dot on my saiga 223 is what I use . Its all you need

 

Which Bushnell are you recommending, the Trophy Red Dot First Strike or the Tactical Elite 1x32 Red/Green T-Dot? They both look great, maybe both with a quick release mount? Dream big I say!

 

 

 

What ever red dot or scope you go with get a quick release mount for it. If the battery craps out or the scope gets damaged you can take the scope of is just a few seconds and revert to iron sights. It's a huge benefit of of the AK scope rail that many over look.

Knowledge is power, and I appreciate those of you that share that power with the rest of us. That being said, is a quick release something I would mount between my Top Receiver Cover Tri-Rail and scope, or should I stick with my side detachable scope mount?

 

Side rail is best. Solid mount on the side rail. Dust cover mounts will move slightly each time you fire. So you may never have true zero. OK for some, but for me the side rail is the way to go.

[Sdustin 578]

Side rail for sure. Or one I'd the dog leg rails that attach at the rear sight and rear stock tang. But if you use the side mount get a quick release type not a bolt on type. Unless you will only use the scope. In that case buy it from me, I'll sell you my utg that bolts to the side rail and has two rails.

[redrocker35 9]

The more I understand my Saiga, the more I like the side rail for my scope mount and the quick release, thanks anyway Monty. At one time I thought I would run it with a dedicated scope at all times until someone here reminded me that the real confusion begins when optics fail and no real time was spent working with the irons. Thanks for the heads up!