Talmadge 2 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Due to an unusual and obnoxious turn of events I have ended up with a spare set of front end conversion parts for a 5.45 Saiga. This includes the gas block, threaded Bulgarian front sight block, and throw lever front handguard retainer. For reference, all the components are identical to the ones shown in this image. Are these compatible with a .223 Saiga as well? The diameters of the bullets are practically the same, so I'm hoping the barrels are made from a similar blank as well, or something like that. Sorry if this information already exists somewhere; I couldn't find any barrel diameters for those two particular calibers and rifles. My first conversion was so fun, and I have those three parts to do another, but I have no use for another 74. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 If your barrel has the grooves for the lower handguard retainer like the image above, than the hardware should fit it. That should indicate that you have an AK101 spec barrel. There will likely be very small tolerance differences in the fitting, but they will work. I did the same conversion on an S223 using bulgarian parts. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 The 223 has used two known barrel sizes. The best way to check would be to measure the barrel with a micrometer and compair it the 5.45. If the diameter is the same for both barrels you should be good. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Talmadge 2 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Thanks guys. I knew saiga-12 would pull through for me when THR failed. Good looking AK Captain, that's what I'll probably go for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 Thanks. I wish I still had it. lol. I sold it to help fund my Vepr-12. I miss it, but dont regret it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 20, 2013 Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 (edited) Heres a couple tips When you notch the barrel for the handguard retainer, use an AK-74 style polymer/plum handguard if possible to do your test fitting. They're slightly longer than the wood handguard. If you use a wood handguard to fit the retainer, you may have trouble getting the retainer to lock down on a polymer/plum handguard due the length differences. AK-74 style wood handguards have a spring tension retainer to take up any slack in the length of this section. The easiest way to make the notch for the retainer is to place the retainer on the barrel, find the position where you want it, and lightly score the barrel with a razor, right at the front edge of the retainer collar. Remove the retainer, and then use a caliper to measure the length from the edge of the retainer collar (where you marked the barrel), to the center of the locking cam pin. Use that measurement to measure back from your score mark on the barrel, then score it again at the end of this measurement. This gives you the exact point where you need to file into the barrel - this mark represents the centerline of the locking cam pin, and will be the lowest point in the notch. A jewler's round file set is best for this task, and if you have another AK, you can select your file by seeing which one best fits the overall profile of the handguard retainer notch on a standard AK. You'll notice that the Saiga has a pin through the gas block to retain the lower handguard. When pressing on the gas block, you can use the existing pin channel in the barrel to locate and center your new gas block. You may have to ream the channel out, but the position will be the same, since the Saiga and Bulgarian gas blocks are almost dimensionally identical. FSB - you're on your own, there are no existing pin channels. Personally I find the best way to center the FSB is to use an L-bar or straightedge against the RSB, resting on the ears of the trunnion just above the barrel pin. Keeping the straightedge parallel to the barrel, I measure the space between the FSB and the straightedge on both sides of the FSB using a caliper. Adjust the FSB until the space is equal on both sides, at which point the FSB is centered in relation to the RSB. I've never been able to get a straight setup with any of the other methods - string, laser level, all of which are just visual. This method actually confirms that the component is centered. Use anti-seize compound when pressing the components onto the barrel to prevent binding and to allow you to rotate the components easily on the barrel for final positioning. Oh and if you do want to verify your barrel sizes, the barrel should measure behind the FSB at .571", and behind the GB at .592". If you have these two sizes you're good to go. Good luck. Edited March 20, 2013 by mancat 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vais01 3 Posted March 21, 2013 Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 The 5.45 barrel chamber end is 22mm but as far as gas block and front sight block they should spec the same as any AK-100 or AK-74M. Unless you have a .591" diameter barrel(heavy .223 barrel) they should fit up fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Talmadge 2 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2013 Thanks guys, and thanks for the tips mancat. I'll definitely use that method for centering the FSB next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Mancat, If you were not so hot-blooded pro-freedom and pro-2A hyper-American Constitutionalist, I would encourage you to get a job at IZHMASH, starting and leading their off-shore factory right here, in the good ole US of A. Perhaps you could consider hiring liberty -r- death and Captain Hero as your VPs. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) judging by the videos I've seen of Molot/Izhmash employees playing with prototypes, as well as Russian competitive shooting teams, I would say most of them are more pro-2A and pro-freedom than the average American. those guys like their toys and are proud of the stuff they build. that would be cool, and I don't know why Izhmash doesn't open a factory in the US. only downside I can think of is that the product pricing would probably jump, mostly due to labor costs, and Izhmash would probably try and market them as upscale AKs due to the "Made in USA" label they would get, in combination with being the officially-licensed "real" manufacturer of Russian AKs. Edited March 24, 2013 by mancat 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebobrusso 27 Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 tag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cdsmonkey45 1 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 i am working on my 223 conversion and it seems that i have the heavier barrel it mics at .590 under the FSB but my bulgarian 74 fsb is .570 - .571. should i just ream the FSB 2 hundreths of an inch or try to find a bigger fsb? i have done other conversions but this is the first heavy barrel ive run into and i just have basic tools no mill or lathe. also the handgaurd retainer location has NO index slots or anything. my russian hand guard retainer will fit "just barely" if i grind out the alignment tabs inside it but wont that cause my handguard to possibly spin? I havent posted much but ive been on here forever so thanks in advance for all the/any help Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 (edited) phenikan, people on this site and others have successfully reamed the AK-74 barrel components for the larger .223 barrels. It definitely can be done if you have the right tools, but can also be done without them... Here is one forum post where the user enlarged the FSB and GB for the thicker diameter barrel. His methods were a bit crude, but worked. http://tinyurl.com/m9lb9ze The handguard indexing slots are a bigger issue. You cannot really etch these into the barrel without at least a scrolling drill press with an endmill bit. You can probably get away with removing the slots from the inside of the retainer, then reaming the retainer to fit the larger barrel. Once it's installed, set up and create the locking cam channel in the barrel. It cannot spin once the locking cam is latched down into the barrel - it acts like a big barrel pin. The retainer may jiggle a bit without the indexing slots, but it will still be secure - may not even be that noticeable with a tight handguard. Edited August 22, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cdsmonkey45 1 Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 again Mancat much good info. thanks. like i said ive done several for myself and friends but this is first heavy barrel ive run into and as confident as i usually am I just didnt wanna F-it up. thanks again. guess i should work on my search-fu as well totally missed that post. thanks again. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cdsmonkey45 1 Posted August 25, 2013 Report Share Posted August 25, 2013 ok well i turned the FSB journal on the barrel down 2hundreths of an inch, god bless belt sanders... got the handguard retainer mounted and fit nice and tight, as for the GB i dont have the tools or the patiance to open it up 4hundreths of an inch and didnt want to sand the barrel anymore so instead i cut the accessory lug of the 74 gasblock and welded it to the saiga GB and reinstalled it. so thanks for the elp and info she is all done now, well except for some kinda reddot anyways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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