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Will my Saiga 223 like 75 gr Tap?


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I had read that my Saiga 223 wouldn't like anything 70 gr or above, but I wasn't clear on whether or not it caused keyholeing or if it was just bad for my gun or such. If its just a keyhole problem, would the close combat of a uninvited midnight house-guest with a finer taste for MY things make excellent use of 75 gr BTHP Hornady T2 Tap? If it will work for my rifle, whats the max distance I could expect before the shot goes all cattywompus on me? Any other unknowns (for me, that seems to be a lot with my new Saiga) I should be aware of with a heavy load?

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Saiga barrel is 1:9 twist. The 70/75gr loads are best with 1:7 twist. Try it and find out. Some have no problems, some report bad groups or minor keyholing.

 

I doubt your intruder will care what your 200yd group size is, or if the bullets are keyholing, because he will be down.

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Saiga barrel is 1:9 twist. The 70/75gr loads are best with 1:7 twist. Try it and find out. Some have no problems, some report bad groups or minor keyholing.

 

I doubt your intruder will care what your 200yd group size is, or if the bullets are keyholing, because he will be down.

When I'm gleaning information here on the forum, I see a lot of sensible recommendations, as well as key expert knowledge, yours tends towards the latter and you respond to so many of us newbies... once again, thanks for the info. I'll feel better having something other than green tip 855's to use in the house...a lot of holes in a lot of buildings, vehicles, etc to repair even if you make contact with the intruder every time. Can you recommend a good economic CQB ammo?

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no problem.. I have a lot of free time both at work and at home, so here I am.

 

no, sorry I don't have any ammo recommendations. I personally don't overthink bullet choices. my feeling is if I have a load/brand that works reliably at the range, it will do the same in any HD situation. I don't really have to worry about wall overpenetration of any of that stuff where I live, and to be honest the first thing to come out in an HD situation at my place is probably going to be my CZ-82.

 

some people suggest that Hornady TAP is more or less a varmint load, and that you can get the same sort of performance from the various .223 varmint loads that are out there. I have a huge stash of Federal AE 50gr ballistic tip - bought it on sale at Cabela's for a varmint hunt that I never did. I suspect that it would not overpenetrate walls if you had to worry about it. I would not want to get shot with that - I doubt my body would know the difference between 50gr and 75gr .223 BT within that short of a distance..

Edited by mancat
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The S223 that I had, shot the heavier loads fairly well with no keyholes, but started becoming unstable at longer ranges past 100m. The range that you may start seeing the keyhole action will likely vary with the consistency of the ammo, as well as the weapon. Hornady ammo has always had a low standard deviation, which is good. The TAP ammo should be no different. And like Mancat said, if you have to use against criminals threatening you and yours, I dont think he'll be worried about its 200yd performance.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Saiga barrel is 1:9 twist. The 70/75gr loads are best with 1:7 twist. Try it and find out. Some have no problems, some report bad groups or minor keyholing.

 

I doubt your intruder will care what your 200yd group size is, or if the bullets are keyholing, because he will be down.

When I'm gleaning information here on the forum, I see a lot of sensible recommendations, as well as key expert knowledge, yours tends towards the latter and you respond to so many of us newbies... once again, thanks for the info. I'll feel better having something other than green tip 855's to use in the house...a lot of holes in a lot of buildings, vehicles, etc to repair even if you make contact with the intruder every time. Can you recommend a good economic CQB ammo?

anything you can find 55gr-69gr BTHP. the 70gr-77gr BTHP will work for for HD/CQB at that distance, but much over 100 yards i would stay in the first size bracket i mentioned.

 

-RR

 

personally...IMHO, i think key holes are your friend in a defensive CQB situation...just sayin

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I use 75gr ammo because my AR-15 has a 1 to 7 twist and I use it for both my .223 Saiga and the AR . At 100 meters I have not experienced a single problem at all ... no keyholing or anything ... nothing at all , and my 20 inches barrel Saiga is as accurate as my AR-15 . The paper holes are very neat , the groups are small and the holes are round so no key holing .

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By the way and adding to my previous comment , I also have not experienced a single problem , ever , shooting steel ammo from my AR-15 .

I don`t know if other AR-15s are peculiar about the ammo they use , but mine is completely inmune to steel ammo , thanks God . I use 62gr Silver , Brown and Gold Bear and mostly 75gr Wolf ... never a single trouble .

Edited by josey88
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Personally I like the laquer coated with red sealer steel .223 cartridge. I left a poly "supposedly" coated .223 round in my cupholder in my car for a while. The cartridge likes to rust! I think we have enough evidence to comfortably say the laquer buildup is a myth... I wounder if the AK extraction would start tearing the heads off spent cartridges when they become stuck in the chamber from fowling buidup?

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Yes. I had that experience with some Herter's .223. Cases stuck in the chamber, the extractor tore the rim off. I had to knock them out with a cleaning rod.

 

That happened about once or twice every 20-round box. And I had bought 500 rounds of it. Tried Herter's once again (one box) after that, same thing. NEVER had the same problems with Wolf or Tulammo - Herter's gets Tulammo's rejects as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by mancat
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I should specify that I am sticking to poly ammo ... I always heard rumors that lacquer coated ammo was bad for AR-15s , so consecuently , I never even tried to use it . For me , the poly coated ammo has always worked well . The lacquer coated ammo ? Since I never even tried it I just can not tell , so I just don`t know if the rumors are right or wrong . I am fine with poly ammo and I am doing the same thing with the Saiga .223 . So far , no problems with either gun on poly ammo . at all .

Edited by josey88
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A tumbling 75 grain high velocity round hitting flesh and bone, DAYUM! There are some video's of a couple of guys hog hunting in Texas with an AR and AK. The AR is using 75 grain rounds and the pigs in a lot of cases faceplant when hit with lots of blood spray. These are tough skinned pigs 200-300+lbs. Theboxoftruth.com is a great place to check the damage path alot of common rounds take and do when hitting various materials. Very cool site! Before people say water jugs are not ballistic gel, these guys "one of them was an engineer" figured out how many water juggs = X amount of gel. Cool stuff and one of the site founders is from a little town in Alabama not 30 min from where I grew up. big_smile.gif

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