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The problem with your gushing enthusiasm is that any system of currency not made of fine metals is fiat money.  Is a few 1s and 0s in a computer really different than a printed piece of paper?  Hell, most of my "money" is just numbers is some computers anyway.

 

Whether it's a government or a corporation making the fiat money concerns me not.

 

That which has been created out of nothing, in the end is nothing.  It is a placeholder.  A promise.  And promises...  Well, they get broken.

 

There are some factually inaccurate statements here - by one common definition, all state-issued currency is fiat money. Fiat money can be defined as any money declared legal tender by state fiat - regardless of whether that money is represented by "fine metals."

 

Your suggestion that currency is either fiat money (by which I believe you mean, it is not representative currency) or it is backed up by metal is also patently false. Precious metal has been a convenient backer of currencies because of its properties - rarity, portability, permanence, its ability to be measured and split into denominations, how readily it can be isolated from ore, and the ease with which it can be worked - perhaps also that it can be made very shiny and attractive. Iron makes a poor precious metal because it rusts - it lacks permanence. Copper makes a poor precious metal because it, too, can oxidize away into nothing - and it is also far too common. Nickel is a bit too common to be a precious metal. Gold, silver, and platinum-group metals all fit the bill. They're rare, easy to work, and they stand the test of time. Under other worldly circumstances, nickel, chromium, niobium, tantalum or indium might have been considered precious metals.

 

Societies have used all manner of representative money, even before the existence of coinage. It is well-documented that many ancient societies issued chits or other representative bearer items to represent the storage of commodities by a central authority - and those chits could be freely exchanged, and the current holder able to exchange the chit for the commodity it represented. Source: http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:114139/CONTENT/econ_0102_08.pdf

 

Bitcoin (and other similar cryptocurrencies) represent a new kind of currency system that has never been tried before - nor could it have been, without modern technology. It is inherently flawed, as any monetary system. If what I've read is accurate, the system only works for a finite period, until all the bitcoins have been mined - after which dramatic deflation is inevitable.

 

Did you even read what I wrote?

 

I love it when people correct me on what I didn't say.

 

I said money MADE of fine metals.  That is not a difficult concept.  I'm sorry it confused you.

 

I did not say or mean representative currency.  If you don't like the word fiat money then don't use it.  I don't give a fuck one way or the other.

 

Money is not value.  Money in all forms is only a placeholder for value IF somebody agrees to give you something of value for it.

 

Even a solid gold bar is worth nothing if nobody wants it.  But historically people have always wanted gold so it's a fairly safe bet.

 

But money "backed by gold" or "tied to the value of gold" is still just a placeholder.

 

As others have said (and I have said myself) the metals I choose to store my value in are lead, copper, brass, and steel.

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...

 

 

The problem with your gushing enthusiasm is that any system of currency not made of fine metals is fiat money.  Is a few 1s and 0s in a computer really different than a printed piece of paper?  Hell, most of my "money" is just numbers is some computers anyway.

 

Whether it's a government or a corporation making the fiat money concerns me not.

 

That which has been created out of nothing, in the end is nothing.  It is a placeholder.  A promise.  And promises...  Well, they get broken.

 

There are some factually inaccurate statements here - by one common definition, all state-issued currency is fiat money. Fiat money can be defined as any money declared legal tender by state fiat - regardless of whether that money is represented by "fine metals."

 

Your suggestion that currency is either fiat money (by which I believe you mean, it is not representative currency) or it is backed up by metal is also patently false. Precious metal has been a convenient backer of currencies because of its properties - rarity, portability, permanence, its ability to be measured and split into denominations, how readily it can be isolated from ore, and the ease with which it can be worked - perhaps also that it can be made very shiny and attractive. Iron makes a poor precious metal because it rusts - it lacks permanence. Copper makes a poor precious metal because it, too, can oxidize away into nothing - and it is also far too common. Nickel is a bit too common to be a precious metal. Gold, silver, and platinum-group metals all fit the bill. They're rare, easy to work, and they stand the test of time. Under other worldly circumstances, nickel, chromium, niobium, tantalum or indium might have been considered precious metals.

 

Societies have used all manner of representative money, even before the existence of coinage. It is well-documented that many ancient societies issued chits or other representative bearer items to represent the storage of commodities by a central authority - and those chits could be freely exchanged, and the current holder able to exchange the chit for the commodity it represented. Source: http://academiccommons.columbia.edu/download/fedora_content/download/ac:114139/CONTENT/econ_0102_08.pdf

 

Bitcoin (and other similar cryptocurrencies) represent a new kind of currency system that has never been tried before - nor could it have been, without modern technology. It is inherently flawed, as any monetary system. If what I've read is accurate, the system only works for a finite period, until all the bitcoins have been mined - after which dramatic deflation is inevitable.

 

Did you even read what I wrote?

 

I love it when people correct me on what I didn't say.

 

I said money MADE of fine metals.  That is not a difficult concept.  I'm sorry it confused you.

 

I did not say or mean representative currency.  If you don't like the word fiat money then don't use it.  I don't give a fuck one way or the other.

 

Money is not value.  Money in all forms is only a placeholder for value IF somebody agrees to give you something of value for it.

 

Even a solid gold bar is worth nothing if nobody wants it.  But historically people have always wanted gold so it's a fairly safe bet.

 

But money "backed by gold" or "tied to the value of gold" is still just a placeholder.

 

As others have said (and I have said myself) the metals I choose to store my value in are lead, copper, brass, and steel.

 

Well, I certainly wasn't trying to be a confrontational asshole - way to take it there.

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hmm... maybe they could put a  chip in your hand... that would allow you to make your purchases in the currency of the time... and track everything... ME? I will pass...  too revelationistic for this boy... unsure.png

 

000.gif

 

 

Where's the LIKE button.... when you need it? smile.png

 

 

Well said.

 

 

It's right here:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/38765-to-do-list-for-the-mods/?p=962708

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Didn't any of you people read the fricking link I posted?? One of the MAJOR Bitcoin exchanges just went poof. Thats it, one day it was here, the next gone, and now there are charges of malfeasance. The money those people spent on Bitcoin with that exchange literally evaporated into thin air. They will never recover a single penny of it.

 

Lesson here... when you invest in a VIRTUAL commodity you never actually possess a damn thing. Gold or other precious metals will always retain value of some sort because they are TANGIBLE.

 

Damn people, some of y'all can get outright stupid.....

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Didn't any of you people read the fricking link I posted??

 

You mean the one you posted 2 days after mine where I posted a story about the exhange shutting down?

 

Sorry Darth, not trying to steal your VIRTUAL thunder here....

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Given that the vast majority of Bitcoin transactions, by monetary value at least, are for illegal goods ands services, plus all the negative publicity lately, it is only a very matter of time until it is banned by most major world governments. Already at least one US senator is calling for its ban. The reasons for its ban will be:

 

1.  It cannot be regulated, which NO government likes.

 

2.  It cannot be easily traced, which lends itself to criminal activity.

 

3.  It is not safe because of the risk of losing it all with no recourse.

 

4.  It is primarily used for illegal purposes.

 

It is only a matter of time until the simple act of converting money into Bitcoin is classified as money laundering. No US entity will legally be able to accept it or convert it. The US may not be the first Western nation to outlaw it, but once it starts the hammer will fall quickly around the globe.

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I don't think there is any reason to insult our fellow members over a discussion about bitcoins. It's just not worth getting all worked up over. We all have a lot in common here and I think you guys are great. I think we all can agree that buying bitcoins rite now would not be a good move.

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I remember hearing about bitcoin years ago. I figured they would hit some insane high, a few people would become millionaires off it, then it would crash into worthlessness.

 

Without something to control the value it will always ride a roller-coaster of highs and lows. An unstable currency is worthless for buying and selling.

 

The US dollar only works because we all accept that it is worth something and is fairly stable. Day to day stability is more important than face value.

In business, I need to take in funds and then buy material and pay for labor. If the value changes substantially day to day, I have to raise my prices to protect myself from the lows. Which then makes the currency have less buying value.

 

Bitcoin fluctuates to much for a legitimate business to use it.

 

I take credit cards through my website, and all I ever see is numbers on a computer screen. At some point I get paid and then I can turn that into paper money, but the vast majority never leaves digital form. Pretty much the same concept as bitcoin but it is government controlled.

 

Honestly the one thing government is useful for is the creation of trade currency. Digital funds are a hell of a lot easier than slicing fractions of a gram of gold.

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I remember hearing about bitcoin years ago. I figured they would hit some insane high, a few people would become millionaires off it, then it would crash into worthlessness.

 

Without something to control the value it will always ride a roller-coaster of highs and lows. An unstable currency is worthless for buying and selling.

 

The US dollar only works because we all accept that it is worth something and is fairly stable. Day to day stability is more important than face value.

In business, I need to take in funds and then buy material and pay for labor. If the value changes substantially day to day, I have to raise my prices to protect myself from the lows. Which then makes the currency have less buying value.

 

Bitcoin fluctuates to much for a legitimate business to use it.

 

I take credit cards through my website, and all I ever see is numbers on a computer screen. At some point I get paid and then I can turn that into paper money, but the vast majority never leaves digital form. Pretty much the same concept as bitcoin but it is government controlled.

 

Honestly the one thing government is useful for is the creation of trade currency. Digital funds are a hell of a lot easier than slicing fractions of a gram of gold.

have you seen the valcambi gold bars? :) sky high premium over spot but cool.

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I should been called Vapor Coin. I would find it insane to invest money into virtually nothing since it doesn't actually exist. You know the old saying about fools and their money. . .

I never believed this Bitcoin stuff and for some people it became Vapor Coin.

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my credit union doesnt accept bitcoin, checked the other day.

 

what good is this shit?

 

someone please explain this one to me, cause i still aint getting it....my dollar worldwide is still more powerful than any currency on the market, as far as tradeability....WHY would i even use this? to buy drugs in the mail?

 

someone really needs to explain this to me, because im just confused why the hell i would even use this shit.

 

seems like a cartel plan to launder money, if you ask me.....

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I remember hearing about bitcoin years ago. I figured they would hit some insane high, a few people would become millionaires off it, then it would crash into worthlessness.

 

Without something to control the value it will always ride a roller-coaster of highs and lows. An unstable currency is worthless for buying and selling.

 

The US dollar only works because we all accept that it is worth something and is fairly stable. Day to day stability is more important than face value.

In business, I need to take in funds and then buy material and pay for labor. If the value changes substantially day to day, I have to raise my prices to protect myself from the lows. Which then makes the currency have less buying value.

 

Bitcoin fluctuates to much for a legitimate business to use it.

 

I take credit cards through my website, and all I ever see is numbers on a computer screen. At some point I get paid and then I can turn that into paper money, but the vast majority never leaves digital form. Pretty much the same concept as bitcoin but it is government controlled.

 

Honestly the one thing government is useful for is the creation of trade currency. Digital funds are a hell of a lot easier than slicing fractions of a gram of gold.

If you have electricity! and a web! otherwise you got shit!

But if you have 22 LR you might have something worth while.

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stay away from bitcoins  

the CEO of bitcoin was just found dead in her house 

not sure where but its true

CEO... Of a distributed quasi-anarchist cryptocurrency...?

 

Figure that one out for yourself.

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all of that other shit asdie, why would i agree to this monetary system? MY GREENBACK AINT ENOUGH?         SINCE WHEN


My dollar is the most powerful unit of transfer in the world.

 

WHY


why would i use this or accept this payment method? like i said, my dollar is the shit.

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A few administrations in a row have fucked up the value of the dollar through bad policy. It does not have the value it once did in international markets. I believe it is only a matter of time before it loses its place as the world's reserve currency.

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