TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I ordered 4 Saiga 308 IZ 139s and got them and opened the boxes to find they had 308 LOS 7-1s in them. Trying to find info on these guns and having a hard time. Anybody know if they are worth a shit? Cant find any for sale on any auction sites or much for reviews. Info needed. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Hope the serial numbers match what you took possession of on the 4473. Are you a dealer? Seems like the dealer would have noticed when they opened the boxes for inspection. All kinds of issues could arise from this, not just the fact you paid for something and got something that is probably worth a lot less. Dolomite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 The serial numbers match what I put on the form. I am not a dealer. I ordered them from Centerfire. They are wanting me to send them back. I looked up the msrp on them. Its higher than what I paid for. Just trying to figure out if I should keep them and sell them or send them back and get a refund. Seems like I cant really find any info on them review wise or if they are a desirable gun. The box has the stickers to what I ordered so they were actually packaged incorrectly from Saiga themselves. I would think the importer and Centerfire wouldve caught it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 You know if you decide to keep them knowing full well they are not yours you could be charged with theft. And with the amount of money involved it would likely be a felony. And the cost of defending yourself from the charges would be far greater than the cost of anything you might get selling these. If they are wanting them back you probably better send them back. I would tell them to pay for a new set of transfers and cover all shipping costs. It would be real bad to loose your rights to ever touch or own a gun again over this. But even if they refuse you still need to send them back because you know you were sent the wrong firearms. I will never order from Centerfire systems because it is obvious they do not check the boxes as they receive them or before sending them. And your dealer needs to rethink his business practices for not inspecting the firearms when they came in. Did you not inspect them at the dealer? If you didn't then you are about to learn a very important lesson in why you always have to check. If you did check but decided to take them anyways then you should be charged with theft. I never trust what is on the box and I never trust what the dealer says they have for the serial number. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Never really thought of it that way. Thanks for the input. Looks like I am better off sending them back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LuPiN8oR 333 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I have to agree with dolomite. However, a saiga bolt action?!? Talk about beautiful irony!!! After i get done saving up for optics this will be my next conquest unless of course we start seeing saiga-9s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Don't mean to be so harsh but things can go very bad, very quickly. And with the political climate we are in right now you are the evil person by default. If Saiga 9's hit our shores I will hopefully be the first. I have a 9mm AR and it is the greatest gun I have ever owned. It ALWAYS gets shot and we have well over 8K thorugh it without any issues. I have cleaned it 3 times since new and it still runs great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) If you do end up sending these back, ask for pre-paid labels to cover shipping and also for them to refund you transfer fees if any. RWC as an MSRP of $1029.99 for the LOS 7-1 rifles Edited March 23, 2013 by sapper1371usmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Then there is the moral issue of him keeping something he did not pay for. Just because a person can get away with something doesn't mean they should. Every week I see errors in my favor and I ALWAYS speak up because it is the right thing to do. And Centerfire Systems knows the OP did not pay for these. And now he needs to return something that is not his. He did not pay for them, he paid for something else. Had Centerfire Systems sent him a couple of guns that were worth a lot less everybody, including the OP, would be demanding things be made right. But because the roles are reversed everyone thinks it is ok to steal from Centerfire Systems. Just because they are a business doesn't mean they suffer any less or that is any more right to steal from them. Now I agree the OP should not be out a single cent because it was not his fault but he should not be able to keep something that is not his. If he does keep the items he did not pay for then he is nothing more than a thief. OP you know what you need to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I probably should have been clearer in my original post. I am not looking to screw Centerfire over. These were not mixed up by them. They were packaged incorrectly from the plant. How they passed through so many peoples hands and nobody noticed, I am not sure. Centerfire did not pay for LOS 7-1. They paid for IZ 139s so they would not be out any money. They told me they have contacted the supplier and they state the same thing so they wouldnt be out any money either. They are extremely helpfull over the phone trying to get it resolved. My main curiosity is wanting to know if there is a demand for the guns. Centerfire stated that if they can not get the IZ 139s, I could send these back for a refund. If they can get the IZ 139s, they will send them to me and I can ship these back. Im just curious if I talk to them Tuesday and they say they cant get me the IZ 139s, if I should just suggest that I will keep these. There was no mix up on serial numbers so all of these rifles are correct on paperwork. Obviously if there was some law stating I had to send them back, I would. With the market the way it is, I am just anticipating Centerfire calling me and telling that they cant get me the IZ 139s.....so Im just looking for another option. If I could keep these and sell them for a couple hundred over what I paid for them, then I could offset the 4 IZ139 conversion kits I already purchased that I cant return. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sohei 10 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 In the U.S. it is my understanding that if you are sent something in the mail you are on generally strong legal ground to keep it without committing a crime. However, any agreements made with the sender beforehand could come into play and create a civil liability. So, you could get sued for the value of the items and a court may look favorably on the plaintiff. You could actually countersue for the items you were supposed to receive but did not. In other words, it could get ugly.In the case of receiving a firearm via an FFL dealer however, all of the state and federal firearms transfer nonsense can get you into trouble as well. Potentially big trouble. Thus, in the case of mistakes related to firearm transfers it is probably a good idea to consider making a good faith effort to correct the mistake. The specific thing that will probably get you into trouble is if you signed for the receipt of the the firearm with the serial number listed. The dealer will also probably get into trouble since they were supposed to check this. They could lose their FFL. You might be able to argue well enough to keep the firearms you received with a really good lawyer but it isn't worth the cost or risk. You should return them, preferably at the seller's expense. Getting compensated for transfer fees would be nice but really your dealer should probably refund that money since they did not do their job. If you wind up absorbing some of the expense, you could blame yourself for not verifying the make, model, and serial number upon receipt. The FFL however has a clear responsibility to do likewise. Plenty of blame to go around. Best to fix things as soon as possible to minimize trouble for everyone involved. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Probably not much in demand for Russian bolt action guns here in the US except for collectors. Ive looked up the model and saw these came into the US several years ago, and the going price then (2004-05) was around $450, much like how the S12s and other Saiga rifles went for much cheaper prices until demand started to pick up. Post a picture of one for us. If it was me, I'd keep one, and send the rest back to Centerfire in trade for the S308's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I have no desire to let things get nasty. Im only going to consider keeping the guns if Centerfire doesnt care. If they request the guns back and threaten a lawsuit, I am not going to tell them to eff off. I am clearly looking for info on these guns to see if there is a market for them.....in the case that me keeping the guns is an option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/los-71-rifle-izhmash-p-917.html Looks like the going price was $699 Check one out for us and let us know. Are the barrels free floated? How many action screws doe the gun have? How many locking lugs on the bolt? Is the "optical" mount on the side in standard AK fashion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 If you dont mind me asking, how much did you give for each rifle? Also, what about the questions above? And does the stock attach to the barrel at all, or only at the receiver? Thanks for the pic. Can you post one of the other side? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 I will check it out and take better pics in the morning. Ive go to head out the door for a concert. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TigerMoses 31 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Then there is the moral issue of him keeping something he did not pay for. Just because a person can get away with something doesn't mean they should. He paid! Whose to determine if the price is right! I got a Saiga for $399 once, but it different prices at gun show, various retailers, even possibly same retailer over time (6 months ago vs today for example). He didn't take some thing for nothing. And on he federal forms, he registered a receiver with the serial number that matches, they don't care about models, because that is to track sale, not a product list, he can chop up and customize that gun in all ways it looks nothing like original, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TODDNAUSTIN 0 Posted March 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Sorry for the delay posting pics. Hope these help you out some. I paid 700 for each gun. Looks like two screws holding the barrel in place. I dont think the sling strap plates are holding anything in place. If I end up keeping them, I will take one apart and see how its all put together. It appears to be pretty simple. Let me know if you want any other pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 From what reading ive done, theyre supposed to be pretty accurate. For the price you paid though, id send them back while keeping one. If you kept them, you would probably be lucky to get back what you got in them. Just too many other bolt guns with factory support for those to be a big seller in the states. That rear sight arrangement seems interesting. Thanks for the pics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Dang those are neat! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 Then there is the moral issue of him keeping something he did not pay for. Just because a person can get away with something doesn't mean they should. He paid! Whose to determine if the price is right! I got a Saiga for $399 once, but it different prices at gun show, various retailers, even possibly same retailer over time (6 months ago vs today for example). He didn't take some thing for nothing. And on he federal forms, he registered a receiver with the serial number that matches, they don't care about models, because that is to track sale, not a product list, he can chop up and customize that gun in all ways it looks nothing like original, right? He did not pay for those rifles, he paid for different guns. Price has nothing to do with it. Like I said just because you can get away with something doesn't mean you should. Dolomite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hilljack 0 Posted March 25, 2013 Report Share Posted March 25, 2013 When they were imported in the 90's they did not sell very well . Seems like the prices dorpped to $350 and still took a while to sell.They are good shooters and are quite accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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