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if it takes LEO's 7 shots to make a hit, how many for a Marine?


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It took me one sidewipe squish against the wall to a Mexican gangbanger with a pistol in his hand that was aimed at me with the 70 Dart I had back in '92 at an Alberto's fast food restaurant drive thru. I placed my order, drove up to the window, and waited for several minutes (nobody appeared at the window from inside) when a big drunk tattooed Mexican walked up between my car door and the service window. He said "How's it goin'", and that he just had to talk to the cashier real quick. A few seconds later, after seeing him wigglin' around and watched his head moving back and forth looking into the restaurant, I looked down at his hand and he pulled out a revolver, swung around to point it at me, and I put the pedal to the metal with the steering wheel cranked against the wall and took off like a bat outta hell. He let out one helluva scream!

Oh, you said "sidearms". I thought you said "side doors"!

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It took me one sidewipe squish against the wall to a Mexican gangbanger with a pistol in his hand that was aimed at me with the 70 Dart I had back in '92 at an Alberto's fast food restaurant drive thru. I placed my order, drove up to the window, and waited for several minutes (nobody appeared at the window from inside) when a big drunk tattooed Mexican walked up between my car door and the service window. He said "How's it goin'", and that he just had to talk to the cashier real quick. A few seconds later, after seeing him wigglin' around and watched his head moving back and forth looking into the restaurant, I looked down at his hand and he pulled out a revolver, swung around to point it at me, and I put the pedal to the metal with the steering wheel cranked against the wall and took off like a bat outta hell. He let out one helluva scream!

Oh, you said "sidearms". I thought you said "side doors"!

BWAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH ROFLMAO haha.gifhaha.gifhaha.gif

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Real story from personal experience on patrol: i was Regular Army from 2000-2003 and am above average shot, especially with rifles. I became a city cop shortly after i got out of the Army. My Sgt. At the PD out shot me with pistols and was neck to neck with long guns every time we went to the range to qualify. Also performed well a ove average when we did move and shoot drills and room clearing.

 

We were having a very busy Saturday night when a Domestic violence call came across the radio. Everyone else was tied up so he took the call so it did not hold. He pulls up and is almost to the door and the homeowner busts through the door with a knife trying to stab him. He draws and shoots three rounds missing all three. Begins retreating and misses twice more. Moving backward the whole time he fires three more times and hits twice in the left leg. Later when asked why he shot the legs he said he was aiming center mass.

 

From that point forward part of our range qualification was a stress shoot. If you wanna see how well you will really perform in a high stress situation load your pistol and chber a round, then lay it on the table. Circle about a 10" area somewhere on the target (if you have a buddy have them do it so you do not know exactly where to aim) and run the target out to 15ft. Drop down and do as many push ups you can as quickly as possible (really bust them out) then immediately jump up, acquire target and shoot. What this does is the push ups simulate the rush of blood to the extremeties and the adrenaline dump experienced during the sympathetic nerve response (fight or flight), the circle on the target simulates the tunnel vision effect of fight or flight, and the 15 ft is the average shooting distance for personal defense situations. If you are able have the target coming at you also and see how many rounds you can get off accurately. May be surprised.

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The 7 shots per bad guy was from a study done a while back on LE shootings if I remember correctly. Seven was the average number of shots to stop the bad guy including misses so some incidents had many more shots and some had fewer. Hard to break it down into all the possible factors for so many shots but it does show that in a real life threatening situation many more shots may be required to stop the bad guy than many people realize. Some of the cases were of officers that had very good accuracy at the range but the stress and surprise of a real firefight caused them to just point without aiming and to shoot until empty.

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SOF guys practice stress shooting by running down the road from the range in full gear and armor for a ways, then back to the firing line...then repeated. Don't forget the Military is teaching Controlled Pairs to center mass, then a third to the head if the first two Failed to Stop. That would make it two rounds for sure, possibly three.

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The 7 shots per bad guy was from a study done a while back on LE shootings if I remember correctly. Seven was the average number of shots to stop the bad guy including misses so some incidents had many more shots and some had fewer. Hard to break it down into all the possible factors for so many shots but it does show that in a real life threatening situation many more shots may be required to stop the bad guy than many people realize. Some of the cases were of officers that had very good accuracy at the range but the stress and surprise of a real firefight caused them to just point without aiming and to shoot until empty.

 

 

thats what i heard. and i heard it first hand from a cop when i was waitin in line for bullets. he said the only shooting he was in it took him the avg. so that makes me think that cops are just like us, unexpecting when the danger comes. soldiers, on the other hand, are trained professionals... they ARE expecting danger, and sooner rather than later... IMO of course...

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Having been both i can tell you that the problem is two fold. As a soldier we trained regularly for live fore situations and that alone. We knew every aspect of our job could and usually does end up with gunfire involved. We also spent many thousands of rounds a year between blanks and ball ammo training and simulating.

 

As a cop complacency is always a factor. You spend a vast majority of your time dealing with mind numbing nonsense. The very few times a year that you do shoot uour service weapon on the departments dime those of us who can shot well they want to hurry through so those less profocoent could e worked with. I was far more practiced and comfortable with my offduty weapon so much that i stopped carrying it and began to use my duty sidearm as my offduty as well.

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