Jump to content

Saiga 308 21" 100 Yard Shoot


Recommended Posts

Hello everyone!

 

I've been registered to the forums for a little while now and have been stalking them for even longer. After thinking about MBR possibilities, I loved the options and reliability the Saiga 308 could give me.

 

So finally after a couple years of wanting and waiting, I finally have my very own Saiga 308! The plans I have for a full conversion are extensive but (of course) definitely not complete. There may be a whole new post regarding questions about my options in the next couple months, so beware!

 

Anyways, down to the point of my post:

 

So I took my baby out to the range a couple hours ago to get an idea of what kind of accuracy she could accomplish. She is bone stock, no mods. I am using the iron sights with some British L2A2 Surplus Ammo from 1988.

 

I only did 3, 5 shot groups just because the wind started to pick up and the people next to me ended up hitting my last target a couple times.

 

My first target yielded a very incredible 3-shot grouping of 1MOA! I was VERY impressed considering that I was using iron sights and surplus ammo (and am no where near as great as a skilled/trained shooter).

 

(Yes, that's a 2-in-1 at the beginning of the tape measure!)

post-34098-0-90653000-1364428903_thumb.jpg

post-34098-0-16521500-1364428918_thumb.jpg

My second target yieled a slightly bigger 3-shot group of about 1 3/4 MOA, but still very impressive. (I did not get a picture of this one as I trashed the target)

 

What kind of accuracy are you guys getting with your Saiga 308 at 100yds? 200? 300? I'm hoping that by the time all is said and done with mine, she'll be hitting no more than 6" at 300 with a good scope and ammo.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tha Saiga I am keeping has the 16.3" bbl and with Lake City M118 Special Ball Ammo she, ("Maxene Blaster"...her name!) shoots just inside 2" at 100 yards on sandbags and benchrest using a borrowed Leopold 3X9 scope using the factory side rail mount. I have not weighted the M118 bullets and I don't know how heavy they are. She might do better with good handloads with a lighter bullet. I have NOT slugged the barrel yet. HB of CJ (old coot) Don't reduce your barrel to shorter than about 18". Muzzle blast.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool! My plan with the barrel is to have it (professionally) cut down to 18" and thread it for a brake. I wonder how many people have done this and what kind of accuracy results they have seen? Hopefully for the better!

 

I know there was/is a good amount of debate between which barrel length was more accurate (16 vs 21) and most of the posts I have seen say that due to less barrel flex, the 16 is more accurate. This is why I feel that 18 is a good median. I can get a little more velocity out of the bullet and (hopefully) not have as much barrel flex as a 21.

 

Thoughts anybody?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would love to get a match barrel machined and a billet gas block for mine but I'll keep it 16" I'm not splitting hairs it's a combat weapon and I get combat accuracy.

 

But I think 18" looks the best.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Most will say as well as I say I shoot 1 1/2 " groups out of my 16" barreled saiga using surplus south African 308 ball ammo @ 100yds benchrested. I haven't tried my 22" barreled saiga yet. Some shooters are ringing gongs at 450yds with there 16" barrels. I'm sure the 22" barrel will shoot farther and more accurate too. There has to be a long distance were the accuracy of the 16" peters out and the 22" takes over. You can't have both worlds you need both saiga's.

Edited by Unknown Poster
Link to post
Share on other sites

you chose a good platform. i love my s308. i use csspec mags flawlessly. you are getting better groups than i get. im w/ sapper. i get softball size groups at 100 yards. i'm also with ak monty. i had plans to turn it into a med range long gun. but i now appreciate as a simple combat tool. i like to think of it as a club, a crutch, a hood prop rod, a crowbar, etc. I really like how insanely simple it is. I love my NF scope and my harris bipod, but it works better on my Rem 700SS R5 milspec. If you're gonna shoot to 300, might as well be able to go out to 1000. But regardless, you will enjoy the build, and you will end up with a beast. I did do an Ace foldstock, a Bonesteel Hinge, a Tapco double hook and a Molot p-grip. Just 'cuz it's a club, doesn't mean it cant be built up a bit. I just wanted to avoid optics to keep it less fragile.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually get around 1.5moa using brass case and 3 moa using russian steel case using a bipod and 6x scope out my 16 inch 308.

 

 

Circled shots are federal blue box 150gr sp and the other holes on the black targets are Academy's Monarch steel ammo. Best grouping was 5 shots in the bullseye on the top right green target on the bottom sheet.

post-46383-0-33845800-1365795211.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

I have a converted Saiga 308 with 16" barrel, Dinzag 2-stage trigger, Arsenal NATO LOP stock, Tapco Saiga foregrip, and shooting with normal factory brass-cased ammo, an obnoxious high-magnification Bushnell scope, and a crummy rest I regularly shoot around 1.25 MOA.

 

I want to do a test using the match-grade stuff my roommate does (hand loaded), I suspect that with better ammo, a reciever-mount bipod, and a higher-quality scope with a tight-fitting mount that I can get down to 1 MOA.

 

 

I also have a 22" barrel Saiga as a project gun that I plan to do a custom build later this year, I'm open to any suggestions beyond what is mentioned above as means of improving accuracy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

My .308 will frequently put two or three shots really close together, but the others will spread out and open the group up to three to four (or more) inches. There's never any rhyme or reason to it either. The close shots are almost never sequential in the string, so it's not a "group". It happens feeding from the magazine and single loading. It's maddeningly frustrating, and the amount of ammo I've wasted trying to fix it is depressing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, like the PSL its made I would treat it like a DMR. A scoped shot to to provide at distance shots. I am sure the stringing you experience is still well within the Silhoutte. Have you tried some of the tricks PSL shooters use which are kinda effective. Some people have tapped the gasblock on the PSL and inserted different size inserts to controle gas. Gas tuned to slow down the bolt for minimum force to produce cycling should help, theoretically speaking...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Here is an update to the accuracy of my rifle:

 

Took my converted baby out this morning to sight her in at 100yards and see what kind of accuracy I could get at 100 and 200.

Here are the two best 3-shot groups I could manage:

 

post-34098-0-77272900-1373577140_thumb.jpg

 

post-34098-0-93192200-1373577146_thumb.jpg

 

On the 100 yard group, the first two were the ones closest to the bull. Of course at this point I'm already telling myself "Don't screw this up! Don't screw this up! Relax..." But of course I feel like I accidentally pulled the last shot, but considering it's still within 2MOA I'm fine with it.

 

However, the biggest surprise for me was measuring that 200 yard group. It appears it is approximately 1.6 MOA. VERY awesome considering that I wasn't even expecting 2MOA hahaha. I cannot wait to get a scope and a gun rest to truly test how accurate my baby is!

 

And for those of you who haven't seen what I've done to mine since the conversion (the bipod was only for show):

 

post-34098-0-40147700-1373577196_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Ok, I've got a Saiga .308 with a 21" barrel. The rifle is unconverted, mostly stock except for tritium night sights and aftermarket recoil pad .. I usually keep it as an open sight rifle but do have a 4x44 scope set up on the side mount picatinny.. Usually with the open sights, prone, I can hit 3"-4" groups all day (yes the tritium sights are quite bulky and unrefined at this distance but they "improve" in low light).. Standing, Offhand at 100 Saiga opens up to 6" inch groups, but still inside the black of a small bore rifle target at 100.. Have been shooting my Remington 700 .308 a lot lately with much improved results (shooter improvements..)

 

Sooo.. as part of a recent ammo test I decided to try to determine just how accurate I could be with the Saiga .308 was.. Rifle was fired outdoors and bench rested on sandbags here are the approximate results..

 

no cleaning between groupings, in all all 3 sets of 5 round groups were carefully fired..rifle bench rested 4x44 Tasco scope, fired outside range wtith light 3-10mph variable wins .

 

American Eagle 150 grain - 2" - 2.5"

Winchester Soft point 150 grain 1.9" - 2"

*Hornady TAP 110 grain = 1.5" - 1.6" groups (fired slightly more rapidly)

*Prvi Partizan FMJ 145 grain = 1.2" - 1.5" (one 1" group with a single flyer several tiny 3 round sub groups)

*Hornady Superformance SST 150 grain = 1.4 - 1.9" (only divergent group fired rapidly still under 2") 3000 fps here guys..

*Hornady TAP 155 grain 1.2 - 1.7" (one extrordinary sub .6" 4-round group, 4 holes touching with a single flyer the 5th to 1.7" had several people take a look at that one through the spotting scope..dang flyer...overall this was the best grouping ammo used )

 

Soo.. conclusion is that I'm really more pleased with the platform. Would like to try a higher power scope and a top mounted scope platform if I could find a stable one..

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

My .308 will frequently put two or three shots really close together, but the others will spread out and open the group up to three to four (or more) inches. There's never any rhyme or reason to it either. The close shots are almost never sequential in the string, so it's not a "group". It happens feeding from the magazine and single loading. It's maddeningly frustrating, and the amount of ammo I've wasted trying to fix it is depressing.

naw man dont think like that, ya you didnt get the resulsts but you were still shooting, which is what the hobby is all aboot!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...

The barrel twist of the saiga 308s will stabilize up to a 168 grain bullet, in January after I finish my DMR build, im planning to develop some loads for maximizing accuracy, looking at 168 grain sierra match kings, 4895 powder, and some decent brass with match grade primers.

 

Will let yall know what i find.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Most will say as well as I say I shoot 1 1/2 " groups out of my 16" barreled saiga using surplus south African 308 ball ammo @ 100yds benchrested.  I haven't tried my 22" barreled saiga yet.  Some shooters are ringing gongs at 450yds with there 16" barrels.  I'm sure the 22" barrel will shoot farther and more accurate too.  There has to be a long distance were the accuracy of the 16"  peters out and the 22" takes over.  You can't have both worlds you need both saiga's.

 

ive hit a gong out to 500 yds with my 16" with iron sights, and i was just resting the mag on the edge of the bench.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Most will say as well as I say I shoot 1 1/2 " groups out of my 16" barreled saiga using surplus south African 308 ball ammo @ 100yds benchrested.  I haven't tried my 22" barreled saiga yet.  Some shooters are ringing gongs at 450yds with there 16" barrels.  I'm sure the 22" barrel will shoot farther and more accurate too.  There has to be a long distance were the accuracy of the 16"  peters out and the 22" takes over.  You can't have both worlds you need both saiga's.

 

ive hit a gong out to 500 yds with my 16" with iron sights, and i was just resting the mag on the edge of the bench.

 

I wonder how much farther the 16" barreled saiga will shoot before the accuracy falls off. At that point the 22" barreled saiga should carry the accuracy out even farther. We only have 100yds ranges here. I wonder why no one has really stretched out the distance on the 22" barrel yet? I'm thinking the 22" barrel should go out to 750yds at least maybe a few more. The Russians at izmash did an awesome job on making the saiga so accurate.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are looking at the limits of the shooter and ammo as much as the rifle at 500m+.

All the 21" buys is some extra burn time on the powder hence a bit more velocity.

 

Just making a hit at long range does not speak to accuracy (repeatability) unless one were to say they hit 80 out of 100 for example. Even then most of the burden is on the shooter.

 

Ive seen guys post a lot of BS, even saw a target obviously hit with 22 cal passed off as 30 cal, reasonable expectations are fine, self improvement is great, but it gets deep sometimes.

What I think happens is all the horah over higher end 2MOA Stoner rifles made everyone react as if that were the acceptable standard of mil-pattern rifles.

 

Seen a lot of people shoot, some were extremely talented, and with a MBR 3MOA+  [over a long period a few hundred rounds] was still standard with mil-surp or cheap steel, in particular sans bench.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Military qualifications have held at 4MOA with irons.

While it may sound liberal thats in various positions no bench rest, sling only unless it is a Stoner then chuck the sling.

 

While true not all irons are created equally but a decent aperture sight with at least roughly a 16" sight radius would be on par.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...