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MSA/TX AK Mag Adapter issue


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I have a MSA adapter which I took by a machine shop to have installed (I posses neither the tools nor the skills needed). After 4 weeks, he finally got it to where it fits extremely tightly. I am sure it will loosen up over time. The magpul seats, but only after a firm smack. He also had to trim the magazine to get it to fit

 

The main issue, however, is the feeding. I do not have a bullet guide because I've only used the Saiga mag. When I hand rack, it feeds from the right side of the magazine fine but, does not feed from the left. It jams up against the breech, just below the barrel opening.

 

I can't tell you how much he took off here or there. He had the instruction pamphlet and a link to

stu-offroad which has a good write up on the process, so I assume he took the appropriate amount from the internals of the rifle, and also shaved some off the top of the adapter.

 

I got the adapter so I could have a bigger variety of mags and use AR mags right off the shelf. As it looks now, I need a bullet guide and to alter the mags I have, both things which I tried to avoid with this adapter. What type of advice can I get?

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I'm trying to avoid the bullet guide. I was under the impression that the adapter would work either with or without the guide. I'm already in $90 for the adapter, $100+ for the installation, now I need another $15 for the guide? I prefer not, but if its the only way...

 

I also prefer to not file on my mags to get the thing to work.

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Kickem- It was not installed per instructions.

 

Based on the pictures you posted looks the Machinist did not go to depth which is causing the hard lock ups and FTF. IF it is not .89"-.90" from bottom of receiver he is not deep enough.

 

Need to measure it out.... if it does not look like .89" in depth and .96" in width then the mag is not sitting deep enough nor loose enough.

 

****EDIT****

 

I went back and looked at the photos.... the mods he did to the mag adapter were actually well thought out. I can see where he was going with it now. Still I think he needs to remeasure the depth as it's not sitting in deep enough. This should resolve the feed as the mag will sit up higher.

 

A BG is an option. Unfortunately some Saigas are at extreme specs and need one for reliability.

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I installed mine following the instructions with multiple measurements. It feeds most of the time but will have some hang ups. I have not installed a bullet guide. I bought two for my two rifles but only installed one due to the feeding issue and magazines not dropping free. Not sure what I am going to do with my adapters now.

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I installed mine following the instructions with multiple measurements. It feeds most of the time but will have some hang ups. I have not installed a bullet guide. I bought two for my two rifles but only installed one due to the feeding issue and magazines not dropping free. Not sure what I am going to do with my adapters now.

Pics of install? Mag type used?

 

Sounds like your rounds are nosediving. If this is the case (and assuming your measurements are correct) the follower is tilting as it's stripping rounds (bad mag follower/design). Try a different mag?

 

Not dropping free is touch and go depending on mag manufacturer, something we have no control over. As stated before as well as on the sheet we recommend PMAGS. They are STANAG compliant and consistent in quality and reliability (non tilting follower).

 

We've used many mags for testing.... USGI surplus and PMAGS is what we recommend.

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I gave the machinist a pmag to use for the fitting because it was my understanding that the adapter was built with pmags in mind.

 

Is a bullet guide suggested for use with the adapter?

I still think he may be just under that just by a hair based on what you've described and experience. The adapter itself has a 2 degree angle in the front wall. This was to make the adapter feed just like a factory mag (corrective feed geometry). However. IF the front of the mag stops on the trunnion and you have to force the rear to lock in the it pushes the rear of the mag up causing it to push against that 2 degree angle (leveling the mag) and the round will nosedive. IF the mag is allowed to come up that last .001-.002 (or whatever it may be off) then the 2 degree would work as it was designed and it should strip and feed just fine.

 

BGs are a last resort for some or just a precaution for others. There are many who need it to run various mags. AKs are notorious for loose tolerances due to the many variations. I have a Arsenal SLR106 and it has a BG, doesn't mean it's a POS. Just means the designer wanted it in there for reliability.

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Forgive me and my lack of mechanical inclination. It would seem to ME that if he has already had to shave some off the adapter and off the mag, wouldn't going a little deeper on the trunion (or whatever is milled for depth) make it sit even a little higher when it already seems to be bottoming out?

 

Why would it feed from one side but not the other - I assume he milled out equally on each side.

 

It also seems that when you "rock and lock", we can't get it to audibly "click", but it does seem to be securely in place. Now, whether that is because it is so tight, or because it is catching but just barely and not enough to give that click, I don't know. Right now, we need to use a screwdriver to pry the adapter out.

 

I appreciate any help and the help all have given so far.

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kickem- Based on the info you have given and pics that is where I advised to start. Simply put he (the machinist) did not follow direction, took his own course and you're in this situation. No where do we have instructions advising anyone to modify their mags. That is a whole separate issue. Which may or may not explain the feeding from one side.

 

Your resolution resides in getting the feed geometry corrected. Which is because it is not milled/installed correctly. Getting a caliper and recheck the measurements is where you need to start.

 

PM us your info and we'll contact you.

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I installed mine following the instructions with multiple measurements. It feeds most of the time but will have some hang ups. I have not installed a bullet guide. I bought two for my two rifles but only installed one due to the feeding issue and magazines not dropping free. Not sure what I am going to do with my adapters now.

Pics of install? Mag type used?

 

Sounds like your rounds are nosediving. If this is the case (and assuming your measurements are correct) the follower is tilting as it's stripping rounds (bad mag follower/design). Try a different mag.

 

Not dropping free is touch and go depending on mag manufacturer, something we have no control over. As stated before as well as on the sheet we recommend PMAGS. They are STANAG compliant and consistent in quality and reliability (non tilting follower).

 

We've used many mags for testing.... USGI surplus and PMAGS is what we recommend.

we used a mill and measured continually. I tried to take pictures but my camera won't focus in close enough to get a good picture. When I get close enough it is too blurry. I have tried all different types of mags. Surprisingly pmags are the worst in the lot. I have an old colt mag that is the best but it still does not drop free. I was pretty sure when I bought it that they were being touted as drop free but I could be mistaken.

 

I have nose diving no matter which magazine I use even pmags or others with anti-tilt followers.

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If a PMAG is not working then there is something more to it. Generally in most, if not all, cases it is milling/measurement related. But thats not to say there might not be the odd "Vodka" build. A BG may be needed for that rifle. Without pictures it's hard to diagnose with certainty.

 

Still would like to see pictures of the milling and of the exterior. See if the magwell is flush to the bottom of the receiver and a measurement shot of the work already done. Sometimes it's the simplest little thing like being .001-.005" off that makes or breaks feeding.

 

How hard is it to lock up a mag into the adapter. Do you have to give it a good slap on the bottom? Does the top of the mag hit the rails on the inside? (Not the trunnion)

 

PM me your order info as well. Thanks.

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I'll see if I can get better pictures. If I recall correctly the adapter locks fine into place and is flush with the bottom of the receiver. I will take a look and double check (I'll have to dig it out of the back of the safe, I haven't touched it in a year and a half). I'll see if I can find my order information, it has been about two years.

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I've seen it in this and other threads where the diagnosis is to "go deeper", "take a little more off". Is there a too deep, how do you know when you've gone too deep, and what should one avoid cutting/milling into? Carolina Shooting sports has a "how to" video on the entire stock to converted Saiga process. Can we not get a step by step video of this process either here or on TX AK web site?

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There is a "to deep". You only want to go as deep as the part of the adapter that goes into the receiver. Coincidentally that is .89".... NO MORE!! That is from the outside bottom flush belly of the receiver. People who go shallow have this issue of a FTF. IF that mag is not almost touching the bolt carrier rails you're not deep enough to properly strip a round.

 

As far as a video.... We don't have one. We stand by the statement on the install sheet to have a professional gunsmith do it. Liability reasons.

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