bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Zero problems running SGM mags in my 030. Maybe you guys could replace the lrbho lever with after market or 030 lever? Lets seem some pics, what are the differences It's not the LRBHO lever, it's that the sgm mags follower sits lower it the mag because of the large plastic feed lips. Insert your empty factory mag on a closed bolt and rack the bolt back and let the bolt stay back from the LRBHO and then remove the mag. Now insert a SGM and you will see that the LRBHO lever will not be touching the SGM follower. Even after bending my friends lever down it still does not touch the sgm follower when this test is done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Zero problems running SGM mags in my 030. Maybe you guys could replace the lrbho lever with after market or 030 lever? Lets seem some pics, what are the differences It's not the LRBHO lever, it's that the sgm mags follower sits lower it the mag because of the large plastic feed lips. Insert your empty factory mag on a closed bolt and rack the bolt back and let the bolt stay back from the LRBHO and then remove the mag. Now insert a SGM and you will see that the LRBHO lever will not be touching the SGM follower. Even after bending my friends lever down it still does not touch the sgm follower when this test is done. If you experience this, you should send it in for a replacement. The SGM mags work with LRBHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 (edited) So whose fault is that? The maker of the aftermarket product. When you engineer a product to work in conjunction with another preexisting product, you have to account for variances if they are the norm with the preexisting product. It does not take a rocket scientist to know there are variances in Russian firearms. From the way SGM described it a while back, they went from Alpha testing, skipped Beta testing, and went straight to production. In their requirements during development their had to be "100% reliable". How would a company be able to feel that requirement was met with a product if they skipped Beta testing? Scenerio: I make a new pair of headphones to work with the new IPhone 9. I test it with 5 IPhone 9's in house and seems ok, so I go to production. Later it turns out that almost 3 out of 10 IPhone 9's(I feel this is very safe number and personally feel it is higher) have a different size headphone jack. The size variances of the jack causes sound in the headphones I made to go in and out. The Apple headphones however work with all variances of the jack as it identified this issue in Beta testing. Who is wrong and where did to go wrong? Edited April 28, 2013 by Muffman 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bruce soderholm 4 Posted April 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Zero problems running SGM mags in my 030. Maybe you guys could replace the lrbho lever with after market or 030 lever? Lets seem some pics, what are the differences It's not the LRBHO lever, it's that the sgm mags follower sits lower it the mag because of the large plastic feed lips. Insert your empty factory mag on a closed bolt and rack the bolt back and let the bolt stay back from the LRBHO and then remove the mag. Now insert a SGM and you will see that the LRBHO lever will not be touching the SGM follower. Even after bending my friends lever down it still does not touch the sgm follower when this test is done. If you experience this, you should send it in for a replacement. The SGM mags work with LRBHO. My sgm's work the lrbho 100%. The Factory mag follower sits higher and push's the lever up more then the SGM's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ec4321 113 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 So whose fault is that? The maker of the aftermarket product. When you engineer a product to work in conjunction with another preexisting product, you have to account for variances if they are the norm with the preexisting product. It does not take a rocket scientist to know there are variances in Russian firearms. From the way SGM described it a while back, they went from Alpha testing, skipped Beta testing, and went straight to production. In their requirements during development their had to be "100% reliable". How would a company be able to feel that requirement was met with a product if they skipped Beta testing? Scenerio: I make a new pair of headphones to work with the new IPhone 9. I test it with 5 IPhone 9's in house and seems ok, so I go to production. Later it turns out that almost 3 out of 10 IPhone 9's(I feel this is very safe number and personally feel it is higher) have a different size headphone jack. The size variances of the jack causes sound in the headphones I made to go in and out. The Apple headphones however work with all variances of the jack as it identified this issue in Beta testing. Who is wrong and where did to go wrong? 100% in agreement. Some folks may be confused by the scenario, but it is 100% on SGM to design to the Vepr and it's variances. Or sell their mags as a unit that must be custom fit to each vepr and here is exactly how to do so, etc. In the case of a headphone jack, there is a standard set (I get your example, pointing out one game changing difference though - not to be pedantic but to further explain where the issue lies) and the dimensions are all agreed upon so there is universal compatibility. In the case of the Vepr Mag Well and Mag, only Molot knows and there is presumably no standard set with third parties. So if you want to integrate with their product you have a challenge on your hands, but if you take up that up and monetize it you have to get it right or face issues like this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 My 5 sgm 10 rders function and activate lrbho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SGM 217 Posted April 29, 2013 Report Share Posted April 29, 2013 We didn't skip on any manufacturing process or R&D from alpha, beta and final production. We used 5 different shotguns (possibly even more, can't remember) as test guns and tweaked our mags all through the process hence the reason the mags were delayed for over 2 months. We have sold and shipped thousands of these magazines and have less than 1/10th of 1% in actual returned magazines sent in. The lrbho working could be multiple factors but most are due to the shotgun, for instance some people have emailed me and said once they slightly bent the lrbho lever the mags work every time. We found based on the 5 shotguns we used there were magwell, magwell receiver cut opening, lrbho and some other minor to major variences. Are we blaming them all on the shotgun? no. We have seen magazines come out of our molds to fast or not be cool enough (causes the concave of the body) like the ones posted here. We normally catch them before they ever make it to be shipped out , if anyone ever has any issues the best thing to do is call us. Our website has all the contact info listed including email address, physical address and phone numbers. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Muffman 54 Posted May 1, 2013 Report Share Posted May 1, 2013 Thanks for the update. I believe this is the most information I have read from you regarding the issue. It sounds you have figured out the issue which is good. It is also good to hear about your return rate percentage. I guess some of us were just unlucky on the ones we received. I only mentioned skipping Beta testing because of a previous statement you had made. Reading the post above, you once again go into detail of Alpha testing, with no mention of Beta testing, so I made an assumption, because Beta testing would have provided a much greater amount of different Vepr 12's to test with than Alpha testing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JRSUDS 18 Posted May 4, 2013 Report Share Posted May 4, 2013 ...Does everyone know that the coveted factory mags are not all identical and are actually fitted to each firearm? it is true, when the rear metal locking lug is inserted it is fitted to the specific firearm then painted...Man, I must have been REALLY LUCKY to have seven unmodified factory mags that work perfectly in my gun without a hitch. Wow, what do you think the chances were of that happening? Must have been a down right miracle! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
big_sti 2 Posted August 2, 2013 Report Share Posted August 2, 2013 Not to beat a dead horse, I have 5 sgm 10rds and 2 -12 rd mags. Bought the 10rd mags 5 months after they started selling them so I'm guessing a later batch, none of them work with LRBH even with heavy rds. All of them randomly get shells stuck near the top. Looks like the surface on the back side of the mag needs to be smoothed out near the top where the shells catch, I'm going to sand them a little and see if it helps. In the mean time I'm going to buy russian 8rd mags. I wanted this shutgun as self defense weapon and 3 gun, I'd be to scared to rely on these mags in a life or death situation. I'll leave it at that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hdskumm 39 Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Strange, the only mag out of the 4 SGM 10's and 4 factory 8's I have that consistently doesn't activate the LRBHO is the 5 rounder that came with the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
S12KS-K 40 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Zero problems running SGM mags in my 030. Maybe you guys could replace the lrbho lever with after market or 030 lever? Lets seem some pics, what are the differences It's not the LRBHO lever, it's that the sgm mags follower sits lower it the mag because of the large plastic feed lips. Insert your empty factory mag on a closed bolt and rack the bolt back and let the bolt stay back from the LRBHO and then remove the mag. Now insert a SGM and you will see that the LRBHO lever will not be touching the SGM follower. Even after bending my friends lever down it still does not touch the sgm follower when this test is done. If you experience this, you should send it in for a replacement. The SGM mags work with LRBHO. My sgm's work the lrbho 100%. The Factory mag follower sits higher and push's the lever up more then the SGM's. I retract my previous statements. You guys are correct. My LRBHO does work, BUT THE FEED ANGLE IS DIFFERENT AND CAUSES JAMS WITH LOW BRASS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beast1989 1 Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Wow this is news to me. I had planned on getting some SGM mags once I got my vepr in but now Im VERYYYY hesitant. Have the magazine issues been fixed in subsequent production or is this still an issue in the current design? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 i have a new one it did this a few times but im almost 100% that the magazine wasnt at fault, i noticed if i hit the top shell on the mag well and it wasnt seated right it would happen started paying attention when i loaded the mag into the weapon and the issues went away and now the mag is 100% and it does lock open on empty 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fransisco_f 10 Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 One of my SGM mags does not go in easily as the other ones. My buddy has the same issue. Anyone else have a similar issue? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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