cutting the barrel

[dubya 198]

I plan on cutting ~2" off my S12 barrel, rethreading it and welding on a Chaos Warthog brake. I wondering, do I need to turn down the first 3/8" or so and then start the threads like the factory barrel or can I just thread right from the edge like the rifles? I'm confident in the rest of the process just wondering about that step.

 

Here's a pic of the factory barrel and spot on the front in question.

 

I assume I'll need to remove the barrel and use a lathe to turn down the front 3/8" if needed?

[dolomite_supafly 56]

If you are welding it on an easier way is to open up the brake so it slip fits the OD of the cut barrel. No need threading if you are welding it.

[dubya 198]

I suppose you're right. It'd save me $80 on the die as well. What would you use to open up the brake?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

A reamer.

[Wade Pruetz 103]

I suppose you're right. It'd save me $80 on the die as well. What would you use to open up the brake?

Uhh...only thing that will work is a Lathe although that may be a bit more than $80 ......

[dubya 198]

I have access to a couple lathes. Never used a reamer myself but that's something that would work at home and I would think it'd work just fine.

[vulcan16 971]

I suppose you're right. It'd save me $80 on the die as well. What would you use to open up the brake?

Uhh...only thing that will work is a Lathe although that may be a bit more than $80 ......

Listen to NineRider Dubs. The man knows his stuff, and I've seen some of his builds

[scoutjoe 276]

I suppose you're right. It'd save me $80 on the die as well. What would you use to open up the brake?

Uhh...only thing that will work is a Lathe although that may be a bit more than $80 ......

 

I got this here dremel attachtment doo-hicky thing here to bolt it onto....

[cguiro 29]

I was thinking the same thing. Only issue with welding is u may over penetrate and ruin your barrel. Do it right. From what ive seen on the youtube if u do need to remove the threads at the first 1/4 inch or so. I would suggest silver solder or even painting the threads with jb weld and installing the break that way. Just mt 2 cents

[Mullet Man 2,114]

I would suggest following ATF guidelines for attaching a muzzle device permanently, to make up the legal (non NFA) length.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Don't half ass this. You can use a reamer, just make sure you either ream it real tight, or fit it real straight before you weld it. Use a TIG, be sure to clean the paint well away from the areas to be welded. A lathe would be better for reaming, but its a shot gun not a precision rifle, so not a big deal.

Be sure to follow all ATF/NFA regulations. Understand that it is arguable at best for a non licensed person to preform this work..(assuming your cutting to less than 18" at any point in the process). Your muzzle device+ barrel must exceed 18" after welding, to avoid an NFA classification.

So jb weld or silver solder are NOT acceptable for permanently attaching a muzzle device per ATF.

[dolomite_supafly 56]

I was posting earlier on my phone so that is why I was short.

 

Do this.

 

Take a hose clamp and clamp it around the barrel where you want to cut off at. The clamp will clamp down square to the bore. This will ensure the cut is straight. Take the hacksaw and slowly go around using the edge of the clamp as the guide. The saw should not cut the hose clamp if it is a good clamp. You could also use the clamp as a guide to file the muzzle square to the bore.

 

Once cut take a hand file and remove any burrs on the outside and inside. Touch it up with cold blue if you want, I didn't.

 

Once you have the piece that is cut off you can use it to ensure the fit of the brake to the end of the cut barrel.

 

To fit the brake you need to use a lathe. Chuck the brake in the lathe with the threaded portion facing out. I went about 3/4" deep and took small passes. I would test fit very often until the brake just barely slip fits. You might be able to use a piece of rubber and install it onto a 3/8" bolt. Then use two nuts and washers to squeeze it inside the brake. (Like the sanding drums for a dremel just larger) This might hold it well enough to allow you to chuck it into a drill. Then once the brake is spinning in the drill you could use a dremel to grind the threads out. This is hardly ideal but it would definitely be cheaper than a lathe.

 

Remove the brake from the lathe or rubber washer thingy.

 

Then drill a 3/16" hole through the brake in the middle of the area you just cut out with the lathe or 3/8" in from the end. The hole is for the spot weld that will hold the brake in place.

 

Slide the brake onto the barrel and test fit it. Also mark the end of the brake on the barrel.

 

Install the brake onto the barrel using GREEN sleeve retainer from Loctite. I smear some on the inside of the brake on the area you just cut and on the area of the barrel that the brake will cover. Make sure the hole you drilled is on the bottom for cosmetic reasons. GREEN sleeve retainer is pretty much permenent and will hold the brake in place until you get it welded.

 

Let is set up for a couple of hours. Once dry it takes 800+ degrees of heat to remove. Even if you didn;t weld it the brake would never come off but you need to weld it to meet ATF guidlines.

 

Take a slightly smaller drill bit and barely dimple the barrel through the hole in the brake. This is to get clean metal for the weld to hold on to and this helps the weld fuse to the barrel.

 

Take a mig or tig and fill in the hole. The guy who did mine cut the tip off the mig wire. He centered the wire in the hole. Pulled the trigger for about 3 seconds and the hole was filled flush. I did not grind smooth or file the weld at all so it is obvious it is a weld.

 

The weld time is long enough to get good fusion but not long enough to cause the chrome to flake. As long as the heat is set correctly you will not blow through the barrel.

 

I will warn you that once you cut the barrel below 18" you are in possession of a SBS. Even if only for a second you are still in possession of a SBS. So do what you need to do to make sure you don't violate the law. I make sure the barrel has been removed from the receiver and off premises prior to cutting.

 

 

Or, if you want I can PM you my number and, depending on the brake, I can open it up for you. I will need the brake and the barrel stub you cut off.

 

 

 

All you will be out is shipping to me. I will gladly do it to help you out.

 

I can only do round brakes, no square ones.

Edited April 4, 2013 by dolomite_supafly

[dubya 198]

Great step by step ^ thank you!

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

On cutting any shotgun barrel below 18" without having a license to do so, or removing it from the receiver,.... well DUH...

 

On all the rest good lord you are thinking too hard guys. Geez. Thought we were talking about a home project here with limited tools. Shit man it's not a piano. Ream the threads out so it will slide over the barrel and weld the damn thing on, with a drilled and dimpled setting like has been said, or a tack weld at the base. It only needs to be "permanently" welded or silver soldered... and never be below 18" in your possession, while in the receiver. For as much as it really matters with a shotgun, you could grind or sand the threads off the inside of the brake til they are evenly bottomed out, and it can be pressed or tapped onto the muzzle, then tack the bitch in place and you're golden.

[6500rpm 670]

The only thing that makes me curious when I see these threads is that nobody ever seems to mention the press back in part. I've only pressed barrels on two S12's that went out and back in much easier than any AK builds, but in the past Tony had mentioned some are a real bitch. I'd be real sure about what muzzle device you're putting on and how well you secure it as that's what you're going to be pressing against on the way back in. At the very minimum I'd make sure to polish the barrel and trunion lightly, use a anti-sieze or good lube, and probably freeze the barrel down to shrink it slightly. Just my 2c.

[dubya 198]

I talked to my buddy that welds for a living, he's been on a Tig 6 days a week for years so I feel pretty confident he'll do a fine job when the time comes. I have the Chaos Warthog brake and after some measuring it looks like I'll he able to remove 3 1/8" from the barrel and still have 1/4" over 18" for safety.

 

Now my only question left is how much will the 3" chop affect reliability? When I drilled my ports I over gassed the gun a little to compensate for the chop and I have a factory 4 port gun @ .093" and it eats everything with 100% reliability with the Auto plug. It even eats winchester and federal bulk firing from the hip with only the last round failing to eject.

 

For those who know, will I need to add a 5th or will it likely run well still? I really want to Avoid having to add a port but will if I have to. I just don't see 3" making that much of a difference.

 

This is the gun..

 

The tip of the brake should be almost exactly where the base of the barrel nut sits currently

[socom688 217]

If you are welding it on an easier way is to open up the brake so it slip fits the OD of the cut barrel. No need threading if you are welding it.

 

 

This is exactly what I did with my barrel. I have an MD Arms birdcage flash hider, and I just dremeled the threads + a little extra material out of it, and just slipped it over my newly cut down barrel. I had a buddy lay an awesome bead weld down on it, and it was as easy as that!

 

BTW I just eyeballed everything. I cut down my barrel to about 16.5'', and used a grinding wheel dremel to smooth it out, and I would check it against a level. Then I did as above. Overall length, 18.5''

 

Now, the chrome lining became discolored in the barrel where he laid the bead, but it hasn't affect performance, or integrity. The chrome lining has held up since.

 

If you are not good at eyeballing or are scared of effing it up royally, just take it so a 'smith.

Edited April 5, 2013 by socom688

[dubya 198]

If you are welding it on an easier way is to open up the brake so it slip fits the OD of the cut barrel. No need threading if you are welding it.

 

This is exactly what I did with my barrel. I have an MD Arms birdcage flash hider, and I just dremeled the threads + a little extra material out of it, and just slipped it over my newly cut down barrel. I had a buddy lay an awesome bead weld down on it, and it was as easy as that!

BTW I just eyeballed everything. I cut down my barrel to about 16.5'', and used a grinding wheel dremel to smooth it out, and I would check it against a level. Then I did as above. Overall length, 18.5''

Now, the chrome lining became discolored in the barrel where he laid the bead, but it hasn't affect performance, or integrity. The chrome lining has held up since.

If you are not good at eyeballing or are scared of effing it up royally, just take it so a 'smith.

 

Mine will be 3/4" shorter than yours but did you lose any reliability after the chop? Also, I'm not familiar with welding and cleaning up the welds myself, what did you do to clean up the bead and make it look decent? Im having my brother cerakote the barreled receiver when I'm finished but figure I'll need to do some filing/polishing beforehand.

 

I'm not worried about the actual process at all, mostly just what the weld will look like and if it will affect the gas system enough to notice.

 

From what I understand, only 51% of the brake needs a bead? So if that's the case I'd have him weld the bottom half.

 

So w

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

I want to show you how RJF permanently attached the tomix shark brake to my barrel. I like the transition between the weld and brake. Small detail but effective.

 

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

That is a very nice job. This thread is great........I've been on the fence about my barrel length. The problem is I have a 24" barrel.....I am thinking I might just have to live with it and get another S12 to chop up.

[dubya 198]

That is a very nice job. This thread is great........I've been on the fence about my barrel length. The problem is I have a 24" barrel.....I am thinking I might just have to live with it and get another S12 to chop up.

 

 

If you EVER decide to sell or trade that 24" S12 please, please let me get first dibs!

 

 

I ended up adding a 5th port at .078" and I'll try that once the barrel is chopped. Hopefully that'll work otherwise the biggest I'll go is .093"and send some parts out to Cobra for a polish.

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

That is a very nice job. This thread is great........I've been on the fence about my barrel length. The problem is I have a 24" barrel.....I am thinking I might just have to live with it and get another S12 to chop up.

 

If you EVER decide to sell or trade that 24" S12 please, please let me get first dibs!

 

 

I ended up adding a 5th port at .078" and I'll try that once the barrel is chopped. Hopefully that'll work otherwise the biggest I'll go is .093"and send some parts out to Cobra for a polish.

 

dubya,

 

Yeah sure thing (if I ever decide to go that route). Have you been to any of the Mills Farm and Fleet in your area? It seems they have S12's listed on there website. I was going to Mn for a conference but got cancelled due to weather and never got to stop in at the one in Grand Forks. Just wondering on their supply? I guess a phone call wouldn't hurt. lol

[dubya 198]

They have them rarely, I've been to 4 on a pretty regular basis for a few years now and I've seen 2 only. It used to be a hotspot kinda but people started posting it everywhere and they've dried up on pretty much everything except for low end bolt rifles and cheap pump shotguns...

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

Ahh...I see. Yeah I was thinking it would be a long shot...we just have to wait it out. I was doing some searching and found this....http://www.kingarmory.com/ka-sg02_us_made_barrel_saiga.html

 

Looks like a good deal(out of Stock)...if your looking for a barrel.

[Eric Pate 478]

Ahh...I see. Yeah I was thinking it would be a long shot...we just have to wait it out. I was doing some searching and found this....http://www.kingarmory.com/ka-sg02_us_made_barrel_saiga.html

 

Looks like a good deal(out of Stock)...if your looking for a barrel.

Not sure they were ever actually in stock...

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

Ahh...I see. Yeah I was thinking it would be a long shot...we just have to wait it out. I was doing some searching and found this....http://www.kingarmory.com/ka-sg02_us_made_barrel_saiga.html

 

Looks like a good deal(out of Stock)...if your looking for a barrel.

Not sure they were ever actually in stock...

You have a valid point.

 

I also found this barrel......http://iccmfg.com/saiga.html

 

They are on sale on e-bay right now.

 

Looks like you have to drill your own ports and front pin locations...although.

 

Interesting.

[Eric Pate 478]

FWIW Tromix will be producing and selling replacement S12 smoothbore barrels at some point in the near future. He posted this update about it in December.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/82442-saiga-12-barrel-blanks-have-arrived-pic/

 

Wait... ...were you looking for a barrel?

[ResponsiveResolve 7]

FWIW Tromix will be producing and selling replacement S12 smoothbore barrels at some point in the near future. He posted this update about it in December.

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/82442-saiga-12-barrel-blanks-have-arrived-pic/

 

Wait... ...were you looking for a barrel?

Great info.

 

I was thinking acquiring one to cut and weld a brake to, meeting the minimal length requirements. As I have a 24" that I prefer not to cut (as they are harder to come by?). Or just get a new s12 altogether(if they ever come down in price).

[thechefshann 0]

does anyone have the die set and live in Kentucky or Indiana?