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To my brethren: sorry to bother y'all, was just having some easy mental fun. Jeez, I feel like I've been bitch slapped by Rodney King

 

and to Volty: dude lighten up. I figured since I couldn't convince you with truth I'd go along and feed your paranoia... I have nutting agains't you -- you just seem wrapped a bit too tight and I enjoy tuggin on the edges.

 

Now to get back to biz...

I tend to thiink that your assertion that an insurgent campaign here on the homefront would have any chance of success is false IF the full power of the military is involved. Unlike in Vietnam and Afghanistan, almost every adult person in the U.S. has woven an intricate web of information that details who they are, what they do, their likes and dislikes and most everything else of importance that can be accessed by the powers that be. Add to that the increasing power of facial recognition technology and as ugly as it is, the facts are that a person may get a lucky shot off or two but then all bets are off. I'm not saying that we should roll over and play dead but the idea of taking on the military with any thought of success is fantasy.

Edited by Odd Man Out
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I think when the jackboots start going door to door, there will still be some folks that will still be indenial of what they are seeing with their very eyes. They will negotiate with their thoughts an

OH IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN HER? well it did, and it has. Remember WACO? FEDERAL troops were used against a civilian on U.S. Soil. Army tanks against civilians. I still remember Janet Reno shaking visibly

WE HAVE GOT TO STOP THIS IN FIGHTING. It does no good.

The one thing I don't think we have to worry about is having to take on the full might of the US military. A worst case scenario of the people vs the government would be a 50/50 split, but more likely a 70/30 split of (people supporters / government supporters).

 

Lets be honest, the most likely people vs government scenario (or civil war) is rural/conservative America vs urban/liberal/progressive government. Statistically it is rural Americans who join the military more often than urban Americans. Rural America tends to be more "conservative" and urban American tends to be more "liberal/progressive (all the way to socialist an communist)". In a rural America vs liberal/progressive government most of the military is going to side with their rural American values and family.

 

Rural American can survive just fine without urban America but the opposite is not true. Urban America produces no food to speak of and little in general that rural America needs or can not do without. Urban America without food and supplies flowing in will erupt in mass riots and violence and provide little in the way of bodies for the government to call on. Rural America has plenty of guns and most folks in rural America would be willing to stand up for their values.

 

Sure there are rural Americans who are liberal/progressive but in the end most have more in common with their conservative rural neighbors than they do the more liberal/progressive urban Americans.

 

I'm using real broad generalities here, but for the sake of a fairly brief post its the way I see things dividing.

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The one thing I don't think we have to worry about is having to take on the full might of the US military. A worst case scenario of the people vs the government would be a 50/50 split, but more likely a 70/30 split of (people supporters / government supporters).

 

Lets be honest, the most likely people vs government scenario (or civil war) is rural/conservative America vs urban/liberal/progressive government. Statistically it is rural Americans who join the military more often than urban Americans. Rural America tends to be more "conservative" and urban American tends to be more "liberal/progressive (all the way to socialist an communist)". In a rural America vs liberal/progressive government most of the military is going to side with their rural American values and family.

 

Rural American can survive just fine without urban America but the opposite is not true. Urban America produces no food to speak of and little in general that rural America needs or can not do without. Urban America without food and supplies flowing in will erupt in mass riots and violence and provide little in the way of bodies for the government to call on. Rural America has plenty of guns and most folks in rural America would be willing to stand up for their values.

 

Sure there are rural Americans who are liberal/progressive but in the end most have more in common with their conservative rural neighbors than they do the more liberal/progressive urban Americans.

 

I'm using real broad generalities here, but for the sake of a fairly brief post its the way I see things dividing.

 

I think this is a fair assessment. I would like to think a majority of "ground pounders" are on our side, probably more than 70%

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Some of y'all are drinking the paranoid Kool-aid. I can't believe some of you are worried about our own government attacking and raining death down because of all this shit happening021.gifrolleyes.gif .

 

If anything it, like previously mentioned, is from increased cartel violence or something from that nature.

 

I understand being prepared against enemies foreign and domestic... but c'mon guys, we aren't there yet...

 

This is all very true but this thread is pure comedy gold nonetheless.

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IMO there's really no point debating whether or not you think the military will attack Americans. If they ever did, the rest of the population would undergo an immediate sea change in thought. Not many people today know about the Bonus Army, Kent State, etc. which were actions taken against incredibly small groups of people - even the Bonus Army was a small event in comparison to what you're talking about, e.g. a few thousand WWI vets, vs. over a hundred million gun owners.

 

STOP talking about whether or not it could happen. It doesn't matter. If it happens it happens, and if it does, the results will be more serious than whether or not Joe Schmoe fires back at a guard soldier.

 

That's all I really have to say about it any longer.

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^^^ Mancat, I agree. Odd Man, I am as always amused by your ways.

 

Let's hope we never see it.

 

To the point of the city/rural, well said. I firmly believe what we are seeing is an attempt to control the city centers when SHTF. This is why we haven't heard of DHS conducting invasion drills in east chuckaf*ck, Idaho. Also, he doesn't really have to control arms in such a place, because even SHTF, the people out there are self-controlled, and will still have access to food, etc. The city people, however, will be in trouble, and there is the place where people will riot, loot, and loose control.

 

However, remember, if they control the city centers, they necessarily control the trade routes. This puts another feather in their cap. Its hard to travel larger distances without running through one of these cities, because all the major roads are designed to link these cities.

 

Again, at the end of it, we have lost before it starts. They are just too overarmed for us. I am reminded a "rant" in another thread. We need to have a law that the government cannot be armed beyond that what the average Joe has access to, given their funds. Military might be a different story, but they need to keep their strong "constitutional" ethic at all levels.

 

Not sure I add too much, but its good to yak it out.

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MT, that was a nice little essay. I liked it. One question. Who do you think paid for your way of life

for 20 years while you were in the military? The American Taxpayer did. So, the American Taxpayer,

as the one paying for your career and your military, has got the bottom line say when it comes

to how that military is dispersed, and if I want to say that I don't want them coming to confiscate

my constitutionally protected guns, then it's my damned right to do so because I pay for that military.

 

I am well aware the taxpayers pay for the Military and as a matter of fact, I paid for some of my own paycheck then technically. You pay the Military to do its job as well as the Politicians who tell the Military what to do. The taxpayer does have a say in the matter by voting. You personally are not going to tell the Military jack shit. Your elected officials do so. If they are going to pass laws against our 2A rights, then they will be the same to issue the Military Order if need be. Let's hope it doesn't get to that.

 

Oh, and to answer your question, I figure the tactics would be the same as used by insurgent forces

in Iraq and Afghanistan. Look like just part of the population until the moment is right, strike, then fade away.

 

I guess you never served in either campaign nor have done any homework with that remark. The only reason the insurgent tactics has produced good results in either place is because of the fact there are metric shit tons of Military Ordnance laying around which yield lots of bang for Hadji to make IEDs with as well as the abundance of Military weapons and ammo. YOU don't have access to the same shit so your argument is a moot point. (Unless of course you have a DsHK in your tool shed and a couple tons of landmines stashed in your garage to make IEDs with). Hit and run tactics with semi auto firearms, hell, even select fire ones are going to get you in trouble real quick. Maybe you can score a few hits on personnel, a kill if you are lucky to miss their armor. More than likely, your own ambush will turn into theirs. I'm just tired of everyone thinking the Military is a big Goon Squad poised to come and get them because they want to. They have enough going on at the present time and really don't give a fuck about you and your Saiga sitting on hoardes of ammo. The politicians however...

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"Oddy", I'm neither tightly wrapped, nor paranoid. When it comes to forums trolls, you're pretty white-bread,

so don't worry about offending me, I don't think you can.

 

FWIW, I support the military, and have never said differently. I do, also, support the Posse Comitatus Act.

I support the idea that all Americans are equal, and that, if you work for the government, your ultimate boss

is the private citizen. So, while I will thank servicemen to my dying breath for their sacrifices, it goes right out

the window the instant they get uppity about them being better for having served, especially on a internet

message board, where civility is rarely found.

 

MT, I recently read American Sniper, by Chris Kyle. In it, he speaks of IEDs made with household chemicals,

and also how they had extreme pressure by the legal aspects to only shoot when someone was in the act

of doing something evil. Not "Oh, I saw this dude yesterday but he hid, and he had an RPG, but today he has

just a Koran, but that's good enough," but literally the guy had to had a gun and be off doing something wicked

with it. I would think that, assuming military operations against the US citizenry start in certain areas, that

one could utilize the ROE vulnerabilities that one see apparent. Day care centers and churches, etc.

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Volty, Oddy here (imitation is the purist form of flattery don't you know), I have no wish to offend you so I am glad that no offense has been taken, what I do wish (and I apologise for doing so, it is a very bad trait of mine) is to reach in your mind and play with it much as a cat does with a ball of twine. I find the tighter the ball of twine is wrapped the easier it is for me to play with it. But all good things must end because our little fun and games is annoying the general population. So, given that, I will from this point on refrain from pushing your buttons further. Oh, as an aside and proof of my efficacy, I can hardly wait for your blistering response...

 

Military! Rise Up and Crush the Civilian Traitors!!!

Edited by Odd Man Out
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MT, I recently read American Sniper, by Chris Kyle. In it, he speaks of IEDs made with household chemicals,

and also how they had extreme pressure by the legal aspects to only shoot when someone was in the act

of doing something evil. Not "Oh, I saw this dude yesterday but he hid, and he had an RPG, but today he has

just a Koran, but that's good enough," but literally the guy had to had a gun and be off doing something wicked

with it. I would think that, assuming military operations against the US citizenry start in certain areas, that

one could utilize the ROE vulnerabilities that one see apparent. Day care centers and churches, etc.

You are not going to make anything effective against armored vehicles out of household chemicals. Hadji was using booby trapping buildings with aircraft bombs in Ramadi. You would need an abundance of chemicals to make anything remotely close to anything that will kill like that. Yes Mr. Kyle talks about the constrictions of ROEs in his book. Hadji with an RPG is a green light to shoot. Same goes for the Dirkas caught planting IEDs at night by drone surveilance. They end up with a Hellfire up their ass. The ROEs change as the conflict goes on as well and are quite a bit different than the escalation of force guidelines LEOs use to justify using Deadly Force. Early on in Iraqi Freedom, the enemy was using white Toyota pickups to harrass the convoys. Then the order came down to smoke any white pickup hauling armed individuals. Some of our "Special" guys were running up in brand new WHITE Tacomas. They ended up having to rattle can them all flat black before any incidents of fratricide occured. Who knows how many white Toyota trucks met their fate.

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You are not going to make anything effective against armored vehicles out of household chemicals. Hadji was using booby trapping buildings with aircraft bombs in Ramadi. You would need an abundance of chemicals to make anything remotely close to anything that will kill like that.

Unfortunately, those IED's are made from artillery shells and aircraft ordnance. Big difference from a pipe bomb. AMFO, however is pretty dadgum destructive and is Astrolite G. Ammonium nitrate (the right kind) is not too hard to come by but anhydrous hydrazine is harder to come by and quite toxic if mishandled.

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Volty, Oddy here (imitation is the purist form of flattery don't you know), I have no wish to offend you so I am glad that no offense has been taken, what I do wish (and I apologise for doing so, it is a very bad trait of mine) is to reach in your mind and play with it much as a cat does with a ball of twine. I find the tighter the ball of twine is wrapped the easier it is for me to play with it. But all good things must end because our little fun and games is annoying the general population. So, given that, I will from this point on refrain from pushing your buttons further. Oh, as an aside and proof of my efficacy, I can hardly wait for your blistering response...

 

Military! Rise Up and Crush the Civilian Traitors!!!

 

Just keep telling yourself that, whitebread.

 

MT, thanks for the explanation.

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You are not going to make anything effective against armored vehicles out of household chemicals. Hadji was using booby trapping buildings with aircraft bombs in Ramadi. You would need an abundance of chemicals to make anything remotely close to anything that will kill like that.

Unfortunately, those IED's are made from artillery shells and aircraft ordnance. Big difference from a pipe bomb. AMFO, however is pretty dadgum destructive and is Astrolite G. Ammonium nitrate (the right kind) is not too hard to come by but anhydrous hydrazine is harder to come by and quite toxic if mishandled.

Exactly.

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I still think the shit is going to hit the fan and soon. I have seen a lot more unmarked DHS vehicles on the road this week. I don't know what's funnier; unmarked cars with DHS license plates, or black cars and vans with super dark illegal tint and multiple antennas with regular license plates. Both stick out like a sore thumbs.

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Anyone else getting weird vibes? Living on the US/Mexico border has led me to pretty much have an odd and cautious feeling about things, but something in the last few days has not been right. Seen tons of LE out and about and everybody is acting like they are looking or waiting for something. Couple that with the no available ammo scenario and I really start to get goose bumps. Oh well, maybe I'm over thinking things.
Remember this thread? The general felling out there is not good.
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Katrina is not a pointless example.

 

Weapons were at the ready just that no one believed what was happening and raised any kind of resistance, that time. Next time it may not be so easy.

 

Then there is the issue of chaos, they may refuse the order in one place and not in another. I would not bet my life on the dice roll.

 

Comfort yourself with whatever you like but to the think the moral decay that plagues this country does not extend to military is just delusional. Field and General grade officers are being replaced in droves by people selected by this regime. Why?

Weapons were not "at the ready" as you put it.

 

Many of us refused to confiscate weapons.

 

General Honore made quick work of overzealous soldiers.

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Katrina is not a pointless example.

 

Weapons were at the ready just that no one believed what was happening and raised any kind of resistance, that time. Next time it may not be so easy.

 

Then there is the issue of chaos, they may refuse the order in one place and not in another. I would not bet my life on the dice roll.

 

Comfort yourself with whatever you like but to the think the moral decay that plagues this country does not extend to military is just delusional. Field and General grade officers are being replaced in droves by people selected by this regime. Why?

Weapons were not "at the ready" as you put it.

 

Many of us refused to confiscate weapons.

 

General Honore made quick work of overzealous soldiers.

 

Pardon? Quick work? Maybe once the videos started hitting an "oh shit" moment was realized then they started doing something. As for the weapons the ones I saw were in condition 3 , which is pretty damned ready on a stoner rifle considering there is no condition 2 for that rifle.

One yank on a charging handle while flipping a safety , what 0.5 seconds?

 

"Many of us refused to confiscate weapons." Which means others did accept the order, and it was issued. How does that conflict with what I wrote?

 

BTW How many weapons did Gen. Honore return to the citizens of New Orleans and surrounding areas?

Zero.

Edited by Rhodes1968
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As for the weapons the ones I saw were in condition 3 , which is pretty damned ready on a stoner rifle considering there is no condition 2 for that rifle.

One yank on a charging handle while flipping a safety , what 0.5 seconds?

 

And the difference between a person being shot or not is if the person holding the weapon pulls the trigger -- what .1 second? Weak Sauce paranoia...

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You keep using that word paranoia, I don't think it means what you think it does...

 

When they march through the streets of towns in your state feel free to reply with some measure of wisdom and then remind us how all this was our imaginations and it never happened the way everyone saw it and we can rest easy knowing it will never happen here, but it did already and its on video and still , ah fuck it waste of bytes..

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I think these guys about sum it up. Pay special attention to what the last guy says. Those here that say they won't do it here had better have a talk with these guys.

 

Edited by Big John!
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You keep using that word paranoia, I don't think it means what you think it does...

 

When they march through the streets of towns in your state feel free to reply with some measure of wisdom and then remind us how all this was our imaginations and it never happened the way everyone saw it and we can rest easy knowing it will never happen here, but it did already and its on video and still , ah fuck it waste of bytes..

Rants usually are...

 

and yup, I understand the symptoms of paranoia: "When they march through the streets of your town..."

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Oddly, I feel pretty good today. I know its not the DHS stuff, but the win in the senate has me feeling good. I figure its better that shit hits the fan and we are armed, rather than they disarm everyone first.

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