Tommyid1 9 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) FIX POSTED IN TECH SECTION http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/87473-vepr-12-gas-block-removal-port-work-and-reinstallation/?p=891822 Hey all. I have about a case of ammo through my v-12. I'm still having problems with it. It won't reliably cycle 1200 fps 1-1/8 ounce 3dram load. It will shoot and extract maybe 4 out of 10 rounds in a magazine. It will never cycle the 2-3/4 dram 1145fps stuff. It will run dove loads at 1290 and 1300+ pretty reliably but I really want to be able to run the crummy stuff as well which is why I bought this shotgun. Magazine doesn't matter I've tried factory and sgm. All the same. I can see 5 gas ports in the gas block and from the barrel. Carrier seems decently smooth. I'm wondering what I can do to help with this stuff. I'm about to send it out for some bolt and carrier work and the R&R safety conversion. What can I do before I send it out toget it running like I want?Thanks,Thomas Edited April 18, 2013 by Tommyid1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Just a suggestion from "the other side", but if you're already sending the firearm to Robert for some tuning on the internals, have him do everything else as well.Working on stuff after someone else has can be expensive depending on the first person's skill and level of understanding of what they're looking at.Furthermore, we have systems, all of which have differing aspects & shop specs with regards to modifications which work in conjunction with other components we tune, so a client adding a wild card can be annoying at best, and costly at worse. It's really easy for one to think they see something, when in fact they're missing something else which contributes to their issues. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 That is something to think about. But with regards to getting the gun runnin correctly. What am I looking at here? Anything I should check or do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Anything? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Tommyid1" data-cid="890159" data-time="1365966539"><p> Anything?</p></blockquote> You see 5 ports which is good, but are you sure theyre clear? Any clue what size they are? How did you see them (shining a light down the barrel or just by taking gas tube off and looking?)? I am no gunsmith by any stretch, but people who are very good at working on these have said that while the molot version has much better QC there are still things that miss the boat. I would recommend to start with each part that is involved in the cycling and make sure they are proper. Start with the ports and make sure they are proper size and in no way obstructed. Best you can make sure the gas block is in proper alignment. Check and make sure your piston is installed properly (this has happened). Then make sure there is not excesive play in the piston that could cause the carrier to rock adding extra friction. See if the carrier is in alignment. Check the rails that the carrier rides on and ensure there are no burrs or metal causing extra friction or obstructing the movement. One thing to consider is that it has a warranty until you make permanent modifications (reprofile), and it does not guarantee and further performance. I would exhaust all possibilities first. Good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I've posted this multiple times. Here's is a guide for recommended 12 gauge loads: http://www.doitdarith.com/temp/vepr12/wolfammo12gaugevepr12.html 2 upgrades you must try are to cycle anything less than 1290fps reliabily: Replace your factory recoil spring with either a Saiga 12 factory recoil spring, 1911 recoil spring, or the CSS performance recoil spring. Polish points of contact on your hammer face from your trigger group and bolt carrier and bolt. There's no need to jack with your gas settings unless you are shortening your barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 so I went ahead and decided to do some cleaning up and smoothing and polishing on the hammer face, trigger components, and the bottom of the carrier. i did a pretty good job i might say but here is the kicker, upon closer inspection. i shined a bright light down the gas block and was able to visualize the 5 gas ports when i looked very closely i could see that three of the ports were semi to mildly occluded. the port in blue has only maybe 5-10% of it covered. the ones in red are far worse looking however. the far one in the picture is maybe 30% covered and the one forward toward the camera is probably 40-50 % covered. im pretty sure this is where my problem must be coming from. my question is how can i fix this... the gas block does not appear to be canted to one side. i was thinking i may pull the gas block off tomorrow and check the shadow and see for certain how things look. if they are occluded by any degree what is the remedy? can i just enlarge the main passage that surrounds the port or should i just enlarge the mouth of the passage to fit over the ports? on that note is there a certain side i should drive or press the gas block pins out from? Thanks, Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you are the original owner, i would personally register it and send it for warrant work. The cost of shipping it is nominal compared to the cost to replace an "oops". Also, there may be something you cant see or fix going on that will require replacing or smithing and once it is apart it is your duck to f@(k. Make them stand behind their gun. Think of it this way, if you paid $1000 for a new Colt 1911 and it was messed up would you fix it yourself or make them do it? Most people would angrily make them do it. Remember this is not a $400 Saiga that you converted. It was a firearm you paid over $1000 for. My .02 cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) I find it interesting that since it's a Vepr the advice your getting is to send it back to the importer for repairs. Well since I'm a humble saiga owner my advice is to grab a brass punch and ball peen hammer. This requires a set of balls and a willingness to void your warranty but I am confident you can fully take matters into your own hands. It doesn't matter if it's a Saiga or a glorified Saiga. The reliability process is the same... Edited April 16, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 If i sent it in would they be pissed that i chopped the rear tang off and polished the underside of the ramp on the carrier and hammer face? I may just do the work myself because i also live in californistan and people have even had trouble on occasion simply getting off roster pistols back from some mfg's Thanks, Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I would call the importer and ask them that very question. My suspicion is that you've already voided it by moding the rear tang. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 yeah i figured as much. sooooo Which way do the pins press out or are they not directional? when I do press them out ill press the gasblock off and when i find out that the gas ports are blocked by the gas block i simply bevel the face of the opening that lies against the barrel and press back on? Thanks, Thomas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 It shouldn't matter which direction you punch the pins out. On my Saiga the pins were mushroomed on one end from factory installation. It was simple to determine which way they should come out. You are talking about the "D" modification to the gas block. I have never had to do that. Verify the ports are the right size and completely open first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Do not D mod. only remove enough material to clear obstructed ports and NO more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 want planning on the d mod i was just going to bevel the edge that faces the ports to make sure they are unimpeded. Thanks alot guys maybe ill make a video or take some pics or something and post it. ill let yall know how it works out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DresNightfire 39 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 This thread may help you out as well. Once again, the only thing I would mess with on the gas system is removing any visible burring on the edges of the ports. Were you able to test out the cycling performance after the polish job? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tommyid1 9 Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Update/tutorial.http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/87473-vepr-12-gas-block-removal-port-work-and-reinstallation/?p=891822 Edited April 18, 2013 by Tommyid1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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