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GUYS,

DOES THIS MAKE ANYONE ELSES LITTLE HEART GO PITTY-PAT??

 

45-70 IN THE 'X45R VEPR PLATFORM.

 

OPEN UP THE BOLTFACE, OR JUST FLATFACE IT A `LA THE S-12

 

MACHINE OFF THAT LIP ON THE BREECHFACE AND JUST COUNTERSINK IT FOR THE CASE RIM (I REALLY THINK THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE FOR THE 'X54R, BUT NO ONE ASKED).

 

WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE FORUM THAT MAKE MAGAZINES.

 

MILL THAT SHOULDER IN THE MAGWELL A BIT MORE FORWARD FOR THE NEW MAG.

 

THE 'X45R AND THE UPPER END LOADS FOR THE 45-70 RUN ABOUT THE SAME CHAMBER PRESSURES, AS I RECALL, SO NO ISSUES THERE.

 

HAVE I FORGOTTEN ANYTHING?

 

10RNDS OF ASS-RIPPIN' 45-70 LOADS ON THE KALASHNIKOV/VEPR PLATFORM.

 

GOT WOOD??

 

JESS1344

post-45478-0-34618800-1365966340_thumb.jpg

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Yeah I agree, you forgot the big thing: the barrel.

 

It would also need some gas system adjustments.

 

And be pretty expensive to shoot.

 

I guess I just don't get it, being a young guy and all. Leave the Fudd calibers to the Fudd guns.

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GUYS,

"I prefer my pre Remington Marlin 1895"

 

I HAVE A '70's ERA '95 MYSELF, I AGREE, A GREAT GUN.

 

YES, PROBABLY A NEW BBL. AS BY MY MEASUREMENTS YOU WOULD HAVE ABOUT .046 WALL THICKNESS AT THE MUZZLE WITH THE 22" BBL. THE GAS PORT SPECS COULD THEN BE WORKED OUT. START SMALL, DRILL TILL YOU GET RELIABLE FUNCTION.

 

FUDD CALIBER; ONLY WITH FACTORY AMMO,

 

USING THE M-1895 MARLIN LEVEL HANDLOADS, NOT THE TOP LOADS, PRESSURE-WISE, BTW, YOU CAN BE PUSHING A 400GR. SPEER AT VERY CLOSE TO 2000FPS. AND THE 300GR. HP/FN AT 2200FPS.

 

A NICHE, SPECIALIZED, TOY FOR HANDLOADERS, TO GET FULL VALUE OUT OF IT, YES, OR SOMETHING FOR THOSE THAT LIVE OR GUIDE IN SERIOUS BEAR COUNTRY.

 

BET THEY'D SELL LIKE HOT CHILI DINNERS TO THE ESKIMO'S, AND MAYBE THE RCMP..................OH-WAIT, NO AK's IN CANADA, LAST I HEARD.

 

HOW MUCH STUFF YOU SEE ON THIS FORUM THAT's NICHE AND SPECIALIZED.

 

IT's LIKE THE OLD QUESTION OF WHY CLIMB EVEREST; BECAUSE IT's THERE.

 

JESS1344

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GUYS,

JUST SAYING IT APPEARS POSSIBLE, WITH NOT A WHOLE LOT OF WORK.

 

KINDA LIKE WHEN MR. RUMORE MADE A SAIGA .410 INTO A .375JDJ WHICH, BTW, WOULD WORK ON THE 'X54R VERP PLATFORM WITH EVEN LESS WORK, I'M THINKING.

 

AS I RECALL, THE ONLY REASON HE DIDN'T DO A 45-70 ON THE .410, WAS THE RIM DIAMETER EXCEEDED WHAT THE MAGAZINE WOULD ACCEPT. THIS WAS, TRUSTING MY MEMORY AGAIN, BACK WHEN WE DIDN'T HAVE FOLKS LIKE WE NOW HAVE ON THE FORUM THAT HAVE THE CAPABILITY AND EXPERTISE TO MAKE MAGAZINES.

 

DEPENDING UPON PORT PRESSURES, WITH THE .375JDJ IN THE VEPR, THE STOCK BARREL MIGHT PASS WITH .0875 WALL THICKNESS AT THE MUZZLE, BY MY CALCULATIONS.

 

I JUST HAVE A "THING" FOR CARBINE OR NEAR CARBINE-SIZED GUNS WHOSE CALIBERS BEGIN WITH THE NUMBER "4", KINDA LIKE MY 20" BBL. STAINLESS STEEL ROSSI '92 WINCHESTER CLONE, IN .454CASULL, OR THE '95 MARLIN IN 45-70.

 

I HANDLOAD FOR THE ROSSI .454 '92 WITH A 225GR. BARNES XPB OVER 30.0 GR OF H110. EXTRAPOLATING FOR THE 20" BBL., I FIGURE IT'S CUTTING ABOUT 2200FPS, OUT THE FRONT.

 

NO FUDDNESS THERE, ON EITHER END OF THAT MAYBE, 6LB CARBINE.

 

THE THOUGHT OF A NEAR CARBINE LENGTH GUN, IN A CALIBER BEGINNING WITH "4", BUT SEMI-AUTO IN THIS CASE, WITH A 10RND. MAG, AND THE RELIABILITY OF THE AK, MAKES MY SKIN TINGLE, KINDA LIKE TOUCHING ONES TONGUE TO A FRESH 9V BATTERY, BUT ALL OVER.

 

WHAT CAN I SAY, I LIKE ALL GUNS, BUT SOME ARE SPECIAL, LIKE A LONG-LEGGED, VOLUPTUOUS, GIRL WITH LONG RED HAIR, FRECKLES, AND +P IN THE MAMMARY DEPARTMENT; IT MAKES ONES BREATH CATCH IN THEIR THROAT.

 

JESS1344

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I HANDLOAD FOR THE ROSSI .454 '92 WITH A 225GR. BARNES XPB OVER 30.0 GR OF H110. EXTRAPOLATING FOR THE 20" BBL., I FIGURE IT'S CUTTING ABOUT 2200FPS, OUT THE FRONT.

 

My .454 is revolver and I would love to try some of your loads. Currently using 260 gr JHP @ 2000 FPS. That is one wrist snapping round and it will punch through 1/4 in steel pipe at 50 yards. I'm sure yours will be a little more.

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PRAETORIAN,

IF YOU'RE GETTING 2K OUT OF A REVOLVER WITH A 35GR HEAVIER BULLET, YOURS MIGHT BE A BIT HEAVIER THAN MINE.

 

THE REALLY GOOD THING ABOUT USING THE BARNES BULLET, IS THAT IT'S SOLID COPPER, AND EVEN IF YOU WERE TO SHEAR OFF ALL OF THE PETALS, YOU'VE STILL GOT THAT LITTLE SOLID COPPER BISCUIT, COMPROMISING 85% OF TOTAL BULLET WEIGHT, WHIZZIN' THROUGH THE RECEPIENTS WARM LITTLE BODY, WHILE THE PETALS ARE OFF ON THEIR OWN TRAJECTORIES, JUST-A HOOKIN'-AN'-JABBIN', SLICIN'-AN'-DICEING.

 

AND A GOOD TIME WAS HAD BY ALL...............

 

JESS1344

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PRAETORIAN,

IF YOU'RE GETTING 2K OUT OF A REVOLVER WITH A 35GR HEAVIER BULLET, YOURS MIGHT BE A BIT HEAVIER THAN MINE.

 

THE REALLY GOOD THING ABOUT USING THE BARNES BULLET, IS THAT IT'S SOLID COPPER, AND EVEN IF YOU WERE TO SHEAR OFF ALL OF THE PETALS, YOU'VE STILL GOT THAT LITTLE SOLID COPPER BISCUIT, COMPROMISING 85% OF TOTAL BULLET WEIGHT, WHIZZIN' THROUGH THE RECEPIENTS WARM LITTLE BODY, WHILE THE PETALS ARE OFF ON THEIR OWN TRAJECTORIES, JUST-A HOOKIN'-AN'-JABBIN', SLICIN'-AN'-DICEING.

 

AND A GOOD TIME WAS HAD BY ALL...............

 

JESS1344

Well that is what is stated on the box. Winchester factory loads. You'll love this though. I also have a .458 Win mag and the loads are 400gr Barnes X bullet HP's, MV is 2300-2400FPS. Also have some Alpha LaFranke 350 and 405 gr jacketed spitzers. The 350's clock in @ 2700FPS. Shooting the Barnes spritzers at steel pipe still left about 65-75 % of that solid copper. Its great since it will do 400 yards easy and does not kick like with the 500-600 gr round nose solids.

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SYNDICATE,

IMHO, IT WOULD TAKE SOMEONE WITH PROFESSIONAL GUNSMITH TRAINING AND A WELL EQUIPPED SHOP, LIKE MR. RUMORE, COBRA, DINZAG, AND A FEW OTHERS, TO ACCOMPLISH THIS, AND I HAVE NEITHER.

 

I DO HOWEVER HAVE THE IDEA, AND SOMETIMES THAT'S ALL IT TAKES TO KICK SOMETHING OFF.

 

I MEAN REALLY, HOW MANY .458 SOCOM, 450 BUSHMASTER, 50 BEOWULF, ETC. AR-15's ARE MADE?

 

DO THEY SELL; APPARENTLY SO, AT LEAST ENOUGH TO MAKE IT WORTH THE TROUBLE, IS IT A NICHE, SPECIALIZED ITEM, YES IT IS.

 

BTW, HERE's SOME BEFORE AND AFTER PICS OF SOME OF THOSE 225GR. BARNES XPB's OUT OF THE .454 '92 ROSSI.

 

JESS1344

 

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post-45478-0-05109800-1366007020_thumb.jpg

 

post-45478-0-90321100-1366007120_thumb.jpg

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This whole idea was already explored re: converting the Saiga 410 to 45-70. Turns out the 444 Marlin is a better candidate for the conversion.

 

Here is a thread about it. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/17066-question-for-tromix-444-marlin-conversion/

 

And aLl CaPs Is NoT nEaRlY aS BaD aS tHiS.

Edited by Darth Saigus
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Of course, x54r ammo is super super cheap, and 45-70 is super super expensive, so that sounds awesome right off the bat!!! Sure...spend $1.50 every time I pull the trigger...why the fuck not????

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ROBRES,

HOW MANY OF THOSE BIG BORE AR's DO THEY SELL; HOW MUCH IS THE AMMO FOR THEM?

 

ITS CALLED R-E-L-O-A-D. BESIDES, THIS ISN'T SOMETHING YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE TO THE RANGE AND POP-OFF A HUNDRED ROUNDS OR SO, NOT UNLESS YOU'RE A COMPLETE MASOCHIST.

 

IT MIGHT BE AN INTERESTING EXERCISE, HOWEVER, TO SEE SOMEONE TO DO 3-GUN WITH ONE, WITH SOMEWHAT LESS THAN FULL POWER LOADS, OF COURSE, AND A REALLY GOOD MUZZLE BRAKE.

 

DOES ANYONE RUN A BIG BORE AR IN COMPETITION?

 

AGAIN, IT'S A NICHE WEAPON, ONLY PEOPLE THAT LIVE DAILY, OR GUIDE, INTO BIG BEAR OR BIG CAT (AFRICA) COUNTRY WOULD NEED SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

 

FOR THE REST OF US, IT WOULD BE A NEAT TOY, SOMETHING TO LOAD-UP SOME AMMO FOR, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FULL CHARGE STUFF, AND GO OUT AND BLOW UP SOME OLD MELONS, PLASTIC WATER JUGS, SLEDGE-DOWN SOME STEEL, HELICOPTER HUNT SOME PIGGIES, TEST THE ACCURACY OF DIFFERENT LOADS, THE EXPANSION AND WEIGHT RETENTION OF DIFFERENT CONFIGURATIONS OF BULLETS, ETC., ETC., TO THE EXTENT THAT YOUR SHOULDER CAN TAKE IT.

 

THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT THIS COUNTRY, AT LEAST IN THE FREER PARTS, IF YOU CAN CONCEPTUALIZE SOMETHING, IF YOU WANT IT, YOU CAN HAVE IT, NO REQUIREMENT TO PROVE UP A NEED, NO MATTER HOW ARCHANE, WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW.

 

AND HOW MANY PIECES DO WE SEE ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ANSWER THAT DESCRIPTION?

 

I MIGHT EVEN BE WILLING TO PROVIDE MR. RUMORE WITH A 'X54R VEPR TO USE AS THE TEST BED FOR THE IDEA.

 

I'D EVEN GIVE HIM THE CHOICE OF CALIBERS, 45-70 OR 375JDJ, TO CONVERT IT TO, WHICHEVER WOULD BE THE EASIER.

 

IN LOOKING AT THE SGM 10RND. MAGS, AND OBSERVING THE WALL THICKNESS, IF A METAL MAG WAS TO BE MADE, IT WOULD BE THINNER WALLED, PERHAPS MAKING SUFFICIENT INTERNAL ROOM FOR THE 375JDJ, WITHOUT HAVING TO MOVE THE SHOULDER ON THE MAG AND MAGWELL FORWARD.

 

JUS' SAYIN'.....

 

I THINK THE 45-70, AT LEAST WITH THE LONGER 400GR. SPEERS WOULD BE CUTTING IT A BIT CLOSE.

 

SO YEAH, I THINK I COULD PROBABLY COUGH-UP A 'X54R VEPR TO BE THE GUINEA PIG, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IN EXCHANGE FOR PROVIDING THE GUN, THAT THE WORK IS DONE AT NO CHARGE TO ME, HE IS FREE TO WRITE-UP THE GUN AND HIS WORK ON IT, FOR PUBLICATION, LASER ENGRAVE HIS NAME AND COMPANY LOGO ON IT FOR ADVERTISING PURPOSES, ETC., ALL TO THE GREATER GLORY OF MR. RUMORE AND THE TROMIX LEGEND.

 

JESS1344

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45-70 is a fun 100yd round but sucks ballistically past 150 yds. The pressure your getting in your lever gun wont be as good as you can get out of a semi probably- browings trap door is just barely rated for factory ammo. I use to shoot cowboy action with my marlin and it was a blast but you need a sextant for ranged shooting. Barnes bullets do compensate for a lot !

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REDHUNTER,

AGREED, PAST 200YDS YOU'D BETTER HAVE A MORTAR MAN IN YOUR FAMILY TREE.

 

ANOTHER TICK MARK IN THE 375JDJ's FAVOR.

 

WITHOUT PULLING THE INTERNAL BALLISTICS TABLES, I SEEM TO RECALL THAT THE 'X54R AND THE 1895 MARLIN LEVEL LOADS IN THE 45-70 ARE ABOUT THE SAME CHAMBER PRESSURE; DON'T BELIEVE I'D BE PUSHING IT TO RUGER #1 OR SIAMESE MAUSER LEVELS.

 

YUP, THOSE BARNES SPITZERS WILL BE PUSHING A WHOLE LOT LESS AIR, AND THEREFORE FLATTER SHOOTING.

 

BEING STACK MAGAZINE LOADED, AS OPPOSED TO THE TUBULAR, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT NOSE-TO-PRIMER DETONATIONS.

 

JESS1344

 

thumb_Orig_457010_large.jpg?43

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I would probably do a 9x54r or a 9.3X54r (European equivalent of a 35 Whelen) conversion over a 45-70 conversion...for 45-70 i would leave to the Ruger #1 or better yet, a Quigly Shiloh Sharps in 45-110 or 45-120

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SO YEAH, I THINK I COULD PROBABLY COUGH-UP A 'X54R VEPR TO BE THE GUINEA PIG, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT IN EXCHANGE FOR PROVIDING THE GUN, THAT THE WORK IS DONE AT NO CHARGE TO ME, HE IS FREE TO WRITE-UP THE GUN AND HIS WORK ON IT, FOR PUBLICATION, LASER ENGRAVE HIS NAME AND COMPANY LOGO ON IT FOR ADVERTISING PURPOSES, ETC., ALL TO THE GREATER GLORY OF MR. RUMORE AND THE TROMIX LEGEND.

 

JESS1344

Uhh, good luck with that LOL. I'm sure lots of people have a rifle they are willing to get Tromix'd out for free. If you actually get him to do it tell him I have a M1 carbine I want converted to 10mm for free...I will supply the M1 carbine of course.
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I would probably do a 9x54r or a 9.3X54r (European equivalent of a 35 Whelen) conversion over a 45-70 conversion...for 45-70 i would leave to the Ruger #1 or better yet, a Quigly Shiloh Sharps in 45-110 or 45-120

 

It's too bad we can't get anything in 9x39, which is popular in Russia and several former eastern blocs.

 

Take a look at your Saiga manual product line.. There are several Saiga rifles chambered in 9x39. Can't get 'em here.

Edited by mancat
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Of course, x54r ammo is super super cheap, and 45-70 is super super expensive, so that sounds awesome right off the bat!!! Sure...spend $1.50 every time I pull the trigger...why the fuck not????

 

That was my exact thought...

 

My primary motivation for wanting a x54R VEPR is the CHEAP ammo... Why would I want to undo the best thing about it? And yes... I might actually pop a couple hundred rounds of x54R just playing around at the range... Certainly can't do that with 45-70 and reloading isn't really for me.... yet.

 

Maybe it something happens to imported ammo this would become more viable. Cool food for thought though.

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I would probably do a 9x54r or a 9.3X54r (European equivalent of a 35 Whelen) conversion over a 45-70 conversion...for 45-70 i would leave to the Ruger #1 or better yet, a Quigly Shiloh Sharps in 45-110 or 45-120

 

It's too bad we can't get anything in 9x39, which is popular in Russia and several former eastern blocs.

 

Take a look at your Saiga manual product line.. There are several Saiga rifles chambered in 9x39. Can't get 'em here.

I've seen them listed in the manual, I think 9x39 would be a great for cast bullets. It's one of those extreme odd ball calibers on this side of the globe tho...definitely something for the "roll your own" crowd.

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While I like 45-70 I think .458 SOCOM beats it because you can run it in a modern semiauto and avoid the issues with rimmed ammo. You can use many of the same bullets and push them up to the midrange pressure for a lever gun. In a system that can take more pressure and harder bolt throws than an AR maybe you could push your hand loads up even higher to match or exceed a guide gun. I have no idea what the limits for the Vepr are but x54R is pretty powerful so it might be possible to run some hot loads of .458 SOCOM. If I had such a gun I would leave my lever gun in the safe because I just like semi autos better.

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