OldCopLarry 3 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I have been lurking (newbie, and novice S12 owner- should receive it in a week or so), reading posts and conversion tips. Amazing site! So, I want to mount a folding stock on my S12 (trigger already moved forward). The tang will be removed, and I assume I need to install a mounting plate, then a folding mechanism... then a stock. When checking on Carolinas site, they state that a Tromix adapter is required for most of the skeleton stocks, but the Tromix adapter is totally "out of stock". Is there another way to install a folding stock? What am I missing? Then, I've been trying to pay attention to what everyone is saying about good and bad parts to install. So, here are a couple of questions regarding parts (keep in mind that I am a total novice when it comes to long guns/shotguns): Is the ProMag drum really bad.... or should I look at the MD-20 instead? Is one 12 round mag better than others? I've read that some shooters are having problems with FTE with quad rails installed. I'm looking at the "Extended Titan Quad Rail". Anyone know if this causes an issue with ejecting? I'm thinking about the "Reliability Kit". Is this necessary? What about a buffer pad? What about an improved hammer spring? What about the gas regulator? I've heard a little about the "V" plug, but what the best one for the S12? Auto plug? OK, lots of questions for my first post, and thanks in advance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Look for "internal stock adapter." there are probably 4 or 5 different makers. DPH, ACE, TAKD, CSS, I think MAA, maybe tac47 too. Don't buy a reliability kit. See if your gun even needs work and if it does do it right. you will be happier. It will be much cheaper, and if there is a problem this will actually solve it. Reliability kits compromize your gun's durability with full power ammo, and often don't make enough difference to solve cycling issues. I put a link about that in my signature.Please read through that. It also mentions the plugs. The gas plugs don't fix anything, they make a gun that works already easier to fine tune and adjust. I love the autoplug. Both drums are good, but I would always prefer MD20 in a given size. It is the original and is made better. I don't think the titan is likely to cause any problems, but I would say to consider whether you really want to add a bunch of stuff to a light shotgun. It is certainly a very nice rail, and all the chaos products are priced very competitively. The rail reliability issues were mostly with UTG rail torquing the gas tube as the gun heats up. My preference is to keep it smooth and light and only put rails where I want to mount things. Any where else they are heavy and sharp and awkward to hold for no reason. The Titan does look cool though, so if that is your main purpose for the gun, don't let me talk you out of it. Chaos sights are nice. If you get a titan and don't get the sights, I despair of you. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HotShot308 11 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 I'll jump on a couple of those... If you're removing the tang, use the CSS Internal receiver block.(this is the one I used, it works great) The site says... "Akdal MKA1919 shotguns require the Tromix stock adapter." You are working on an S-12, not an Akdal... right? I opted for the MD-20... about the same price, better rep, looks better engineered, site supporter... need I say more. No info on the FTE with Quad rails. I got the reliability kit... came with adjustable plug, and better puck (which both pieces counts as a 922r part), only use the spring when you are going to run really light target loads. As for regulator, I'm going to try the MD that came with the Reliability kit, then if that isn't working for me I may get the Auto Plug. HTH Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mscottrogers 56 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 Go shoot it before you do anything. This will give you a baseline to compare it to. Shoot buck and slug to break it in then work down to the lighter loads. I had a blast before i converted mine. These are fun even with the stock crappy trigger. When you convert it i would do the grip, trigger and stock then shoot it before putting on the quad rail. Go in stages. This will keep you sane and let you know whats up. The ak trigger groups are the same except for the hammer profile and width so pay atttention that. You can use the old hammer with the new trigger and sear to check your conversion if you have bolt issues. The trigger group pin retention plates are the same for ak and saiga except the top is ground down and the profile is bent so if they are out of one you can still use the other Use the search function and you will be able to convert in your sleep. These are the easiest weapon to work on Have fun. Scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 15, 2013 Report Share Posted April 15, 2013 No need to cut the tang for a folder when you can get Bonesteel. 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OldCopLarry 3 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Who sells the bonesteel? I have some parts in my cart at Carolina Supply, that will fold the stock... but the parts are about $135 for everything with the skeleton stock. I was looking for something more impressive... But, what the hell... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Ditch all that shit and get this... Bonesteel Folding Galil Style Stock I bought the right side folder with the sling swivel. Orders take a month to deliver but worth the wait. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Goose 95 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Who sells the bonesteel? I have some parts in my cart at Carolina Supply, that will fold the stock... but the parts are about $135 for everything with the skeleton stock. I was looking for something more impressive... But, what the hell... They're on here as a member. The guy's name is like ObiWonBonJovi or something pretty close to that. BTW someone earlier mentioned that SGM might make an adapter. They do but it's not a folder. It replaces the entire trunnion and threads an AR buffer tube directly into it. I love mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,219 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 (edited) Already some great recommendations so I will only speak to the Chaos Titan issue. Yes it can cause ejection issues. It just so happens my S12 was one of them. Running the factory hand guard it would eat everything I fed it. Add the Titan, and it would not feed the Federal bulk pack stuff (2 3/4" 7 shot 1 1/8 oz 1200 fps). Remove the Titan and put the factory back on and it cycles everything again. With that said, the Chaos Titan XL is a fine product and the cycling issues aren't related to the rail itself. My gun cycled everything, but it was just on the ragged edge of having enough gas. Adding the Chaos for whatever reason, put it over the edge with the Federal stuff. After opening up the 3 gas ports to .093, I haven't had any FTE's even with the Titan installed. Edited April 16, 2013 by Spacehog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yes, like many businesses hosted on this site they offer forum members a discount. Troll their business section and you'll find the discount code. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barrage 33 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Ditch all that shit and get this... Bonesteel Folding Galil Style Stock I bought the right side folder with the sling swivel. Orders take a month to deliver but worth the wait. Seconding this, received my right-side folder in about 5-6 weeks but I'm very happy with what I received. I didn't order the sling swivel, but was told those will go up on his website separately soon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigd1979 23 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yea received my bonesteel leftside folder with sling swivel las week and it is nice would highly recommend this product Quote Link to post Share on other sites
travistp 63 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 I see nothing wrong with the reliability kit if you keep factory spring. Puck wont hurt anything and best to have more options on your gas plug. I have css puc and dph regulator. Launchs buckshot 2-3/4 on setting 2 put stovepipes on 1. Federal lowbrass bird on 5 works like a champ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 579 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Texas ak designs has the internal stock adapter on sell for just 28 bucks shipped. Super deal I got one on my saiga .308 it's a nice piece. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
im_n2_vws 28 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yea, can't go wrong with the bonesteel. I love mine. Hey Barrage, the swing swivel I got when I orderd my bonesteel stock was just a UTG quick disconnect (push button) swivel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Barrage 33 Posted April 16, 2013 Report Share Posted April 16, 2013 Yea, can't go wrong with the bonesteel. I love mine. Hey Barrage, the swing swivel I got when I orderd my bonesteel stock was just a UTG quick disconnect (push button) swivel. Awesome, thanks, yeah I don't know why I didn't try that sooner, I had a set of Mako push buttons around and tried it last night and it worked. Need to modify mine to accept the Russian sling though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OldCopLarry 3 Posted April 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) Thanks for your input everyone. I'm going for the look of Spacehogs S12. Zactly what I want! I will be back with more questions as I get into this gun. I like the Bonesteel stock too! BTW: what length do they mean on their site (Bonesteel)? I have no idea the difference in the two options. And, do I have to cut off the tang with this stock? Thanks! Edited April 17, 2013 by OldCopLarry Quote Link to post Share on other sites
im_n2_vws 28 Posted April 17, 2013 Report Share Posted April 17, 2013 No need to cut the tang off. Not real sure the differences in inches of the 2. The Warsaw is the shorter like a regular AK buttstock and the Nato is longer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spacehog 2,219 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Personally if I had it to do over, I would have gone with an option which kept the tang intact. Don't get me wrong, I love the setup and there is nothing wrong with it, but keeping the tang leaves so many more options when you want to change it in the future. And trust me you will always want to change it in the future! This is the third and probably not the final "version" of the gun. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 282 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Cut the tang, don't look back. Go with the MD-20, I felt its built tougher. Chaos makes some high quality parts. So if you want the quad he has out go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fbg_firebug 1 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Any one have a few pictures of the bonesteel installed on their gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 (edited) Posting photos of an incomplete build is sacrilegious on this forum but here goes. As you can see the grip hasn't been attached but the pictures should give you a good idea of what to expect. This is what she looks like in the morning without all her make-up on... Edited April 18, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigd1979 23 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Left side modular folder let me know if you want some closer pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fbg_firebug 1 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 Thanks! Was wondering how far the folder stuck out from the receiver. Some look like there a mile from it. I'm trying to find one with clean lines Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigd1979 23 Posted April 18, 2013 Report Share Posted April 18, 2013 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/86145-cutting-the-tang/ Here you go this is what helped me decide Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OldCopLarry 3 Posted April 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oh Bonesteel!!! I need a members discount code to place an order. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
obiwanbonjovi 337 Posted April 22, 2013 Report Share Posted April 22, 2013 Oh Bonesteel!!! I need a members discount code to place an order. look in the members only discount section to find the secret code. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/77686-5-off-all-saiga-products-at-bonesteel-arms/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Terminator03 18 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 Posting photos of an incomplete build is sacrilegious on this forum but here goes. As you can see the grip hasn't been attached but the pictures should give you a good idea of what to expect. 100_6435.JPG 100_6437.JPG This is what she looks like in the morning without all her make-up on... 100_6438.JPG What brand is that handguard, and where did you buy it? I am looking for a better looking alternative to the stock one without adding a bunch of weight and rails that I don't need, and yours looks good, and light. I'm sure I could add a section or 2 of rail if I needed to on that anyway for a AFG, or light. I wish I could have a Bonesteel folder, but that is an "evil feature" under the MA AWB unfortunately. Just out of curiousity, though, I notice there is a left/right hinge option. Is there a reason why you would choose one over the other? My instinct would be to order the left side version so that I could still actuate the trigger with my right hand while it's folded, but with the sight rail, that might make the stock not fold flat, or something. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
OldCopLarry 3 Posted April 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 OK, I just ordered the Bonesteel folding, 6 position stock. I entered the discount code, but it didn't show up on the final bill... ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted April 23, 2013 Report Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) Terminator03 said: What brand is that handguard, and where did you buy it? I am looking for a better looking alternative to the stock one without adding a bunch of weight and rails that I don't need, and yours looks good, and light. I'm sure I could add a section or 2 of rail if I needed to on that anyway for a AFG, or light. I wish I could have a Bonesteel folder, but that is an "evil feature" under the MA AWB unfortunately. Just out of curiousity, though, I notice there is a left/right hinge option. Is there a reason why you would choose one over the other? My instinct would be to order the left side version so that I could still actuate the trigger with my right hand while it's folded, but with the sight rail, that might make the stock not fold flat, or something. Thoughts? The S-12 Dragunov hand guard is OEM which is only available on builds imported by Legion USA. It is not available as an aftermarket part. You are right, it is light. Once I finish the conversion I plan on weighing it against my !z-109 with a CSS tri-rail. I wouldn't mind adding a rail for a light but I am unsure how to go about it and I question if the hand guard would be stable enough to do so. I chose the right side folder for two reasons. Having all the controls on the right side is nice when I'm using a sling. It's comfortable against my body. Also my other build has a right side folder with an ACE folding mechanism. I like keeping a standard between both platforms. You can still actuate the trigger when the stock is folded, but I don't know why you'd want to shoot an S-12 unshouldered. Have you done this? How'd your wrist feel? Did the shotgun cycle? I initially got into the platform for bear protection. If I'm walking around with a folded stock in bear country feel free to call me a dumbass. Left or right is a personal preference. I don't believe one is better than the other. Edited: I certainly screwed up on the quoting above... Edited April 23, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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