Interesting news on the Saigas...

[PvtPyle 0]

I don't know how much stock to put into this, I have called RAA and left a message to try to speak with Debbie on it but have not heard anything back yet.

 

I heard from three different people, including a major player in the NFA business (they import a LOT of stuff from all over the world), another future distributor for RAA, and another importer that the Russians have not shipped the Saigas yet and will not be doing so for at least a year. They are too busy with the 100,000 AK's for Venezuala.

 

I don't know what to make of it, but missing the Thanksgiving dead line and RAA saying that they will not be shipping until the first of the year some time does not make me feel warm and fuzzy.

 

Has anyone else heard anything?

[TacticalResponse 0]

I don't know how much stock to put into this, I have called RAA and left a message to try to speak with Debbie on it but have not heard anything back yet.

 

I heard from three different people, including a major player in the NFA business (they import a LOT of stuff from all over the world), another future distributor for RAA, and another importer that the Russians have not shipped the Saigas yet and will not be doing so for at least a year. They are too busy with the 100,000 AK's for Venezuala.

 

I don't know what to make of it, but missing the Thanksgiving dead line and RAA saying that they will not be shipping until the first of the year some time does not make me feel warm and fuzzy.

 

Has anyone else heard anything?

[/quote

 

 

The problem is Izhmash makes the AK 103 as most of us know. When I heard about the sale to Venezuela, I was concerned about two different scenerios. One Izhmash would not be able to fill their U.S. Saiga orders. Two the state department may become so outraged at Russia's actions that they may consider trade restrictions. Now this week Russia announces plans to sell Iran up to a billion dollars worth of surface to air missles, and of course I'm sure that it's to help Iran protect their peaceful nuclear research program weeks after the new president of Iran threatened to anniliate Israel. Sounds like shades of the old Soviet Empire. Trade restrictions are bound to follow especially if Russia goes even further with this irresponsible behavior of theirs. Lets all hope that conditions change so that we can have our Saigas.

Edited December 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Bvamp 604]

so we are waiting on a slight tool change in the main factory before our product is run? is that what that means? ah wtf. wait, I already have one.....I think ill hang onto it.

 

I guess AK's have to go out to the places that need them because they have rocks and sticks still for the most part. I can sort of understand that?

 

 

whats the war in venezuela escalating or something?

 

maybe us american capitalist scum should pay more for them. I bet they will run ours then. its a cheap gun, yeh, but wouldnt you all pay another hundred for these things? whatever model they are?

 

maybe thats the real issue. everyone is outbidding the factory runs out over the american buyers that are trying to lowball it?

 

I would have to bet if you asked them to do you a short production run at 40% increase of cost ,they would do it.

 

just looking at how the barrel is cut, it sure LOOKS like it is a similar tool that cut the rifle barrels for the s-12's. maybe they really do set the factory up to run one gun at a time, or very few at once.

 

I think an iquiry from our russian memebers is in order....

[PvtPyle 0]

They have already raised the price from the last batch that came in nearly 20%. I wont pay anymore for them thats for sure.

[inparidel 4]

maybe us american capitalist scum should pay more for them. I bet they will run ours then. its a cheap gun, yeh, but wouldnt you all pay another hundred for these things? whatever model they are?

 

maybe thats the real issue. everyone is outbidding the factory runs out over the american buyers that are trying to lowball it?

 

I would have to bet if you asked them to do you a short production run at 40% increase of cost ,they would do it.

 

I doubt another hundred bucks on an order of a few thousand shotguns can even begin to distract from the military orders. Besides, they are getting too expensive as it is.

[TacticalResponse 0]

maybe us american capitalist scum should pay more for them. I bet they will run ours then. its a cheap gun, yeh, but wouldnt you all pay another hundred for these things? whatever model they are?

 

maybe thats the real issue. everyone is outbidding the factory runs out over the american buyers that are trying to lowball it?

 

I would have to bet if you asked them to do you a short production run at 40% increase of cost ,they would do it.

 

I doubt another hundred bucks on an order of a few thousand shotguns can even begin to distract from the military orders. Besides, they are getting too expensive as it is.

 

 

This whole situation is becoming more political than monetary. Russia is begining to sell arms to the Soviet Unions old allies and praising their leaders.

Edited December 6, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Bvamp 604]

yeh well, unfortunately money doesnt care about politics. Im sure theres quite the clusterfuck happening all-around.

[pedal2alloy 206]

The only thing keeping them from the U.S. is politics, mostly U.S. politics. The factory, the importers, and the distributors are all making good enough money to be motivated to supply them. It costs the Russians under $30 to produce an AK and you know what they sell for here so you can do the math. Also, you know that the Venezuelans aren't paying no $350 for one like we do.

[scoutjoe 276]

The only thing keeping them from the U.S. is politics, mostly U.S. politics. The factory, the importers, and the distributors are all making good enough money to be motivated to supply them. It costs the Russians under $30 to produce an AK and you know what they sell for here so you can do the math. Also, you know that the Venezuelans aren't paying no $350 for one like we do.

 

 

ditto

[Wolverine 10,360]

When you can set up a factory for slug runs of full auto AK's in mass quantities with high potential for repeat business you will dedicate your factory as it drives cost down. Changeovers and smaller volumes cost time and money. The unique "sporter" Saiga for the US market is not lucrative enough to worry about when compared to military arms in huge quantities with little or no variation in production materials or methods. It's economics..........but will become political on the US side because of Russia supplying Iran and God knows what other jihadist a-wipes.

 

And it's not like we are on the best terms with Venezuela either. If Russia is supplying them the US State Dept. is likely to take a dim view of that as well. Just another reason to bar importation of Russian made small arms. Bah.......

 

Wolverine

[G O B 3,516]

Hey, Venezuela needs shotguns too. Maybe they will order a shitpot load of swat madels, and Izhmash can sell them cheaper! We will gladly relieve them of their factory overruns.

 

G O B

[BattleRifleG3 16]

I keep thinking making such things in the US really wouldn't be the farthest cry from affordable and feasible. Especially if we made use of AK kits for as many parts as we could. Yeah it would cost more, but if we made them AK style to begin with, the costs of buying a complete Russian gun and then converting it wouldn't be all that far below.

Edited December 7, 2005 by BattleRifleG3

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Well this is definately some interesting news for the thread (or possibly rumor, anything is possible in this new world of "Saiga's are coming when?"). I'm just lettin ya'll in on something I heard.

 

I was at a local pawn shop/gun store today for the first time and was talking to the owner about Saigas. He has some nice guns in there. We were discussing the current problem with S-12s being hard to find and he said he had actually seen with his own eyes in the last few days an ad from one of the 6 distributors he deals with that there was a new company building them in the US. It was just before closing, he was pretty busy trying to track down a gun for someone but he let me thumb thru his new Ellett Bros catalogs and I couldn't find it. He said he would give me a call in the next few days when he runs back across it in the right book. This could be BS but he sounded pretty sure. He said the ad stuck out like a sore thumb when he saw it. He's also been looking for Saigas.

 

[Wolverine 10,360]

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Hey, Venezuela needs shotguns too. Maybe they will order a shitpot load of swat madels, and Izhmash can sell them cheaper! We will gladly relieve them of their factory overruns.

 

G O B

 

 

G O B,

 

That's a nice thought and I would love to get in on it but I would be surprised if BATFE would view the SWAT model as "sporting" enough to permit importation. If they do, I'd gladly pre-order and maybe even prepay if delivery was guaranteed in 90 days or less.

 

 

BRG3 and COBRA,

 

As far as producing in the US, it is sounding better everytime I hear the latest unconfirmed rumor about new Saigas. However, I have yet to find any US made weapon that doesn't cost 2 to 3 times its' imported counterpart irrespective of quality, fit and finish.

 

Wolvie

[pedal2alloy 206]

There are many companies in the U.S. that manufacture AK's. Some are small like KREBS CUSTOM and PIECE OF HISTORY FIREARMS LLC and some are bigger like ARSENAL INC. and AK USA.

 

http://www.arsenalinc.com/about.htm

 

http://www.ak-103.com/

 

 

Arsenal makes the SLR-103 which is really a Bulgarian SLR-95 but made in Nevada.

 

AK USA is in Florida.

 

Either of these companies could produce the S12 in the U.S. easily.

[cvasqu03 21]

If our shipment goes to Venezuela, then I say we invade Venezuela, get rid of that commie Hugo Chavez, and get out Saigas back!

 

Heck invading wouldn't be a bad idea just on principle.

[Bayoupiper 738]

If our shipment goes to Venezuela, then I say we invade Venezuela, get rid of that commie Hugo Chavez, and get out Saigas back!

 

Heck invading wouldn't be a bad idea just on principle.

 

 

And think of all the natural resources!

We would have more oil than we know what to do with.

Not to mention all the nice new vacations spots.

[Wolverine 10,360]

Good idea. Who we going to borrow the troops from?

[scoutjoe 276]

Good idea. Who we going to borrow the troops from?

 

 

borrow troops? why you need to borrow?

[Wolverine 10,360]

Good idea. Who we going to borrow the troops from?

 

 

borrow troops? why you need to borrow?

 

 

It's the capitalistic law of supply and demand. There is more demand than supply.

[jimmbswu 0]

Dudes,

 

Invading Venezuela is too hard. We just need to piggyback our Saiga orders off of the Venezuelans, and ask Senor Chavez to ship them to us when he gets them.

 

Despite all of his blustery against the capitalist pigs, Senor Chavez is not above making some greenbacks.

[ForGreatJustice 1]

That's really not a bad idea...at ALL!

 

No need to go to Chavez, just whoever his defense procurement people are. Bribe him the cash up front, ask him to add our mags and saigas to the order, then ship to on a Form 6 to good-ol' US importers.

 

 

 

Dudes,

 

Invading Venezuela is too hard. We just need to piggyback our Saiga orders off of the Venezuelans, and ask Senor Chavez to ship them to us when he gets them.

 

Despite all of his blustery against the capitalist pigs, Senor Chavez is not above making some greenbacks.

[TacticalResponse 0]

Washington Times article about our good friend south of the border. Bribe him? I don't think so guys, We'll just have them set up a shop at Gitmo, where Chavez and his goons can make our Saigas for us behind bars. At a Saiga forum special discount price of course.

 

 

 

http://washingtontimes.com/national/200502...23420-3113r.htm

Edited December 8, 2005 by TacticalResponse

[Wolverine 10,360]

Washington Times article about our good friend south of the border. Bribe him? I don't think so guys, We'll just have them set up a shop at Gitmo, where Chavez and his goons can make our Saigas for us behind bars. At a Saiga forum special discount price of course.

 

 

 

http://washingtontimes.com/national/200502...23420-3113r.htm

 

 

TacticalResponse,

 

Thanks for the article. That clinches it. The Russians are too busy making military AK's to make sporting Saigas.

 

"The arms deal with Russia does not call only for AK-47s. Russia will also supply MiG-29 fighters and attack helicopters. Additionally, U.S. intelligence believes the AK-47 buy may eventually reach 300,000 rifles."

 

I can't wait for our gov't to sanction Russia. Looks like the value of our Saiga's is increasing every day.

 

Wolverine.........Bah...............

[inparidel 4]

-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Dec 6 2005, 06:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, Venezuela needs shotguns too. Maybe they will order a shitpot load of swat madels, and Izhmash can sell them cheaper! We will gladly relieve them of their factory overruns.

 

G O B

 

CNN and others say AK-103 and AK-104 (7.62 x 39, hmmmmm. . . .I wonder why.)

[TacticalResponse 0]

Washington Times article about our good friend south of the border. Bribe him? I don't think so guys, We'll just have them set up a shop at Gitmo, where Chavez and his goons can make our Saigas for us behind bars. At a Saiga forum special discount price of course.

 

 

 

http://washingtontimes.com/national/200502...23420-3113r.htm

 

 

TacticalResponse,

 

Thanks for the article. That clinches it. The Russians are too busy making military AK's to make sporting Saigas.

 

"The arms deal with Russia does not call only for AK-47s. Russia will also supply MiG-29 fighters and attack helicopters. Additionally, U.S. intelligence believes the AK-47 buy may eventually reach 300,000 rifles."

 

I can't wait for our gov't to sanction Russia. Looks like the value of our Saiga's is increasing every day.

 

Wolverine.........Bah...............

 

 

For the first time the U.S. state department today was talking about trade sanctions aganist Russia. I think before things become to bad the Russian people may oust Putin.

Edited December 8, 2005 by Wolverine

[Bvamp 604]

but money still talks. especially when you talk to an upper 1% echelon american who can make money off the whole thing.

[PvtPyle 0]

Just got off the phone with Debbie, she says it is bullshit. Just because Robinson is out of guns and the Russians have not even confirmed his order, and has been telling everyone that they are not building guns for anyone but Hugo, does not make it so.

 

She said she had the shipping numbers and that they are on the way. And the second shipment is getting ready to leave port.

 

Time will tell, but I feel much better.

[dinzag 31]

Thanks for the heads up PvtPyle.

Edited December 8, 2005 by dinzag

[TacticalResponse 0]

The largest problem facing us is that Russia is beginning to sell arms to all of the client states of the former Soviet Union. The State department is becoming more than a little perturbed about all of this, and with good reason. This is our biggest problem concerning future imports of the Saiga 12. Billions of dollars in arms sales of various types proposed for sale to Venesula. One billion dollars worth of surface to air missles to Iran. 15 billion dollars of arms sells to China, including AWACS type aircraft to guide Chinese fighters in a air battle with the U.S. carrier fleet If a war over Taiwan erupts. The list of what Vladimir putin is doing to strengthen Americas enemies is incredible. Don't expect rosey relations with Russia much longer. No one liked the dangers that the cold war posed or wants the word stage back in a similiar condition. I believe that the honeymoon that we've all enjoyed wth Russia sense 1991 is sadly coming to a close. I was going to order some parts from Ruseller. Now, I'm reconsidering doing so if theres no chance of them ever arriving with new future trade restrictions placed against Russia. Maybe Cobra 76 is correct in stating that we may have to build the Saiga 12 in America. It can be done. they would definitely be more expensive. Although maybe the increase in quality would offset the increased cost, not to mention we could build a swat model here!

Edited December 8, 2005 by TacticalResponse