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Rustler07

Saiga 12 FTF

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Hello Guys,

 

I just got my Saiga about 3 weeks ago and I am still learning the gun. I have moved the trigger group and changed the stock. I have also changed out the original gas plug with a auto plug from TAC 47. I shot Winchester buck out of it with little problems. I only had to adjust auto plug once to get it to run smooth. Today I took it out and was running Fedral slugs out of it and started to have FTF. The gun would run 3 to 4 rounds then FTF. So I went back to the Winchester buck and same thing. When I get the FTF the gun seems to fully cycle and then just a click when the trigger is squezzed. I then cycle the gun, eject failed round and it will then fire 3 to 4 more rounds before another FTF. Any ideas on why its doing this? Like I said new to this gun and any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Okay I will try that. But I have a question about what it will change. I am under the impression that the gas plug diverts some of the gas from the barrel to cycle the bolt. Since the gun cycles fine now what will changing the auto plug out do? Just curious.

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Does the trigger reset before you have a FTF? Sounds like it does if you hear a click. What FCG did you use when converting and did you make any mods to it?

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You have included far too little information, particularly about all the details of the ammo that would run and what would not run.

 

From what you have said, it could be extra weak federal slugs or even some that are so hot that the bolt is bouncing off the rear trunion and outrunning the magazine. Details matter. About the only thing you have told us is brand, which means almost nothing. We need all the numbers on your box of ammo.

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Okay I will try that. But I have a question about what it will change. I am under the impression that the gas plug diverts some of the gas from the barrel to cycle the bolt. Since the gun cycles fine now what will changing the auto plug out do? Just curious.

 

Apologies for making the quick comment without explaining my thoughts. Let's get as many original parts back on your S-12 so that we can define a standard. If the problems exists with the original plug than we know to look elsewhere. By the way the autoplug will not increase reliability so I don't suggest putting it on until we have it in running order.

 

I also want to mention that it would help if you understand the DRAM chart so you can verbalize exactly what loads you are using. I'll try and post more info about the DRAM chart when I get off work.

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Okay I will try that. But I have a question about what it will change. I am under the impression that the gas plug diverts some of the gas from the barrel to cycle the bolt. Since the gun cycles fine now what will changing the auto plug out do? Just curious.

 

Please read the link in my signature about reliability. It explains a process for being systematic, and why it is important to be systematic.

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Additionally regarding the Auto Plug..

You should adjust it using the lightest loads you plan to use FIRST.

Once it is adjusted to run your light loads reliably the Auto Plug should run heavy loads without adjustment.

It sounds from your post that you are starting with heavy loads.

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Okay I will try that. But I have a question about what it will change. I am under the impression that the gas plug diverts some of the gas from the barrel to cycle the bolt. Since the gun cycles fine now what will changing the auto plug out do? Just curious.

 

Apologies for making the quick comment without explaining my thoughts. Let's get as many original parts back on your S-12 so that we can define a standard. If the problems exists with the original plug than we know to look elsewhere. By the way the autoplug will not increase reliability so I don't suggest putting it on until we have it in running order.

 

I also want to mention that it would help if you understand the DRAM chart so you can verbalize exactly what loads you are using. I'll try and post more info about the DRAM chart when I get off work.

 

 

+3

Nice, uncomplicated explanation.

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Dram chart as promised...

 

post-35052-0-13907000-1366436286_thumb.jpg

 

A relationship exists between mass and velocity. Use the chart to determine what DRAM your build shoots. With proper port sizes you should be able to shoot 3 DRAM. With a bolt profile 2 3/4 DRAM is not unheard of.

Edited by HighPlainsDrifter

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Okay here are the rounds I have fired:

 

Federal power shok 3" 1 1/4 oz 1600 Velrifled slug (# F131 RS)

Winchester super X 2 3/4" 1325 Vel 9 pellet 00 Buck (# XB 1200)

 

I have put the original gas plug back in and will try out the gun Tuesday to see if this fixes the fail to fire issue.

 

Thanks for the chart but not sure how to figure out the Winchester Dram. From the chart I guess the Fed is a Dram of 5?

 

Please understand that this stuff is all new and some of this crap like the dram I am reading on other sites is making my head spin.

.

 

 

Does the trigger reset before you have a FTF? Sounds like it does if you hear a click. What FCG did you use when converting and did you make any mods to it?

 

 

 

I installed Carolina Shooters Modified fire control group

 

Yes I can here the click as I slowly move the trigger forward then I squezze and the hammer releases and no fire.

Edited by Rustler07

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Don't worry too much about understanding the dram equivalent system. It is very flawed. It is good for a rule of thumb for calculating the overall power of a shell and little else. i.e. 3 dram kicks about the same as 3 dram and has about the same amount gas to operate the system. Since companies that sell ammo use it, you should know just enough to work out whether ammo has enough oomph or not. If you have weight of the projectile(s) and the velocity, you can use the chart to find the dram eq. If you have weight and dram eq, you can use the chart to find claimed velocity.

 

All you need to know is the lowest Dram eq # your system will run. (Should be 3 dram eq and up with a healthy gun.) The standard light load is 1 1/8 oz at 1200 FPS if one of those numbers goes down, the other one needs to go up. If both numbers are at or above that, then you know you are good to go.

 

9 pellets of OOB are aprox 1 1/8 oz 8 pellets are aprox 1 oz. Those are both fairly hot loads and should have cycled enthusiastically on setting #1 of the factory gas plug with all factory parts.

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Well I cleaned the gun and took it out again to see how it would run. Still same issue every few shots I would get a fail to fire. This time I took notice of the primer on the failed rounds and they had no mark at all. I got about 20 rounds off then the damn BHO spring came off and the gun was done for the day. So when I was taking the gun apart to fix the issue with the BHO spring I pulled the hammer and main spring out and notice the main spring/hammer spring looked odd. The arms of the spring no longer where bent the same. Now the main spring is an after market spring so like HighPlains suggested putting original parts back into the gun I put the oringinal spring back in. After all was back together I took the gun out and ran 100 rounds without any fail to fire issues. So I guess it was that aftermarket spring causing my issues. Any idea what would cause the main spring to bend like that?

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Main spring or hammer spring?

 

The JTE Hammer spring is designed to be tweaked to give the amount of force you want. It starts out light. I believe his section has instructions on how to adjust the hammer spring.

 

As for the main spring I dunno. I can't see it.

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Right then. Look for instructions in JTE business section. I know I have seen them.

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Put the original factory hammer spring in your trigger group right now! The JTE hammer spring is your problem, giving you light primer strikes. You should have included this detail in your FIRST post. We are trying to help you out here! Now go back and test it out with the same ammo. Report back with the results ASAP!

 

 

BTW, You are using the term of FTF as failure to feed, correct?

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....so like HighPlains suggested putting original parts back into the gun I put the oringinal spring back in. After all was back together I took the gun out and ran 100 rounds without any fail to fire issues. So I guess it was that aftermarket spring causing my issues.

 

That should tell you that you wasted money on unnecessary parts. There is no need to replace the factory springs unless one is broken.

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