thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 I was digging around the net and got some pretty good info on the types of different steels that are used to make edged weapons. Rather than to type all this out, I did the copy and paste, as it would have taken me very long to type this. This information came from a thread at the blade forums. The entire thread can be found here. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/368828-Steel-FAQ. I thought this info would be good to have on hand for future references for those interested without having to do a lot of searching. Steel is the heart of the blade. The search for higher-performancesteels has to a number of wonderful materials in recent years. Steelby itself isn't the sole determiner of knife performance, of course.Heat treatment, blade geometry, handle geometry and materials alleffect how a knife performs for a particular job. However, thoseother qualities can be difficult to measure. You can't tell bylooking at it how well a blade has been heat-treated, and you can onlymake educated guesses on how well the blade and handle geometry willwork. With steel, however, you can get a full listing of its alloyingelements, something measureable and somehow satisfying.As a result, it's easy to fall into the trap of putting too muchemphasis on the steel itself. A knife is more than steel, and it'simportant not to forget that. In addition, many modern steels performso well, that knife decisions can often be made based on other factorsthan marginal increases in steel performance.The question of "what's the best steel" or "rank the following steelsin order from best to worst" often comes up. The resulting repliescan never be totally accurate, because depending on the jobs the knifewill be used for, the blade geometry, and the quality of the heattreat, what is "best" and what is "worst" can be very fluid. If youwant to make an educated decision about steels, try to learn thebasics of steel properties, and go from there.B. Sharpening for performanceThat doesn't mean that significant performance advantages can't be hadby choosing the right steel for the job. In fact, choosing a steelcan significantly impact the performance of a knife. But, to reallybring out the performance of a particular steel, you need to takeadvantage of the better steel in your sharpening plan. If a weak,brittle steel can perform the job when sharpened at25-degrees-per-side, a strong, tough steel might give you somemarginal performance improvements if it, too, is sharpened at25-degrees-per-side. However, to really bring out the performance ofthe better steel, trying bringing it down to 20-degrees per side, orless. The advantage of the better steel is that it is strong andtough enough to hold up with a small edge angle -- and smaller edgeangles radically out-perform bigger edge angles. It's easy to get a10-to-1 perform advantage for certain cutting jobs by cutting 5degrees off your sharpening angle.This leads to the general rule:To really see the advantages of a better steel, exploit thatsteel in your sharpening program. If you're going to sharpenall your knives at the same angle regardless of steel, youmight de-emphasize steel choice somewhat.On the internet, I'll often see someone posting about wanting toupgrade from their ATS-34 folder to one that has S30V, and then in adifferent post, declare that they sharpen all their knives at20-degrees-per-side. Why spend all that extra money for S30V, just toget some marginal wear resistance advantages but no other performanceadvantages? If that same user would take advantage of S30V's superiortoughness and drop the edge angle to 15-degrees-per-side, they wouldsee a large leap in cutting performance, along with the extra wearresistance. Because of choosing the right sharpening angle, the moreexpensive S30V knife now gives an impressive return on investment.*Now* you can see what all the fuss is about!C. Design for performanceIn the section above, we highlighted what the user can do to bring outthe best performance in a high-performance steel. But the user isonly half the equation; now we will look at what the knifemaker mightdo with a higher- performance steel. As the knifemaker moves from onesteel to another, it is often possible to modify the design of aparticular knife to take advantage of the newer steel, and raiseperformance.For example, it is possible to make a hard-use "tactical/utility"knife from ATS-34. To make sure the ATS-34 will take the kind ofstresses it might see in this environment, the edge might be left abit thick (sacrificing cutting performance), or the hardness broughtdown a touch (sacrificing strength and wear resistance), or both. Ifthe same maker moves to much-tougher S30V, he might be able to thinout the edge, thin out the entire knife, and raise the hardness,bringing up performance as a whole. Moving to differentially-tempered5160 might allow the maker to re-profile even more for performance.If we're talking about a fighter, moving from 1095 to 3V might allowthe maker to make the knife much thinner, lighter, and faster, whilesignificantly increasing cutting performance and maintaining edgeintegrity.So to really take advantage of the higher-performance steel, we wantthe knifemaker to adjust the knife design to the steel, wherever hethinks it's appropriate. If a knifemaker offers the same knife inmultiple steels, ask about what the characteristics are in each steel,and the how's and why's of where the design has changed to accomodateeach steel offered.Note that there can be good reasons that a knifemaker might not changethe blade profile even though the steel has changed. Maybe he'sparticularly good at heat-treating one steel or another, so that thedifferences between disparate steels are minimized. Maybe thehigher-performance steel is not available in the next stock thicknessdown. Maybe instead of higher cutting performance, the maker wouldrather offer the same cutting performance but in a knife that can takemore abuse. Maybe his customers tend to only buy thicker knivesregardless of performance.So work with the maker to understand the choices being made with thedifferent steels being offered. If you understand the kind ofperformance you need, you'll be able to make a wise choice.D. Properties of performance steelsWhat is it we're looking for in a steel, anyway? Well, what we arelooking for is strength, toughness, wear resistance, and edgeholding. Sometimes, we're also looking for stain resistance.Wear resistance: Just like it sounds, wear resistance is the abilityto withstand abrasion. Generally speaking, the amount, type, anddistribution of carbides within the steel is what determines wearresistance.Strength: The ability to take a load without permanentlydeforming. For many types of jobs, strength is extremely important.Any time something hard is being cut, or there's lateral stress put onthe edge, strength becomes a critical factor. In steels, strength isdirectly correlated with hardness -- the harder the steel, thestronger it is. Note that with the Rockwell test used to measurehardness in a steel, it is the hardness of the steel matrix beingmeasured, not the carbides. This, it's possible for a softer, weakersteel (measuring low on the Rockwell scale) to have more wearresistance than a harder steel. S60V, even at 56 Rc, still has moreand harder carbides than ATS-34 at 60 Rc, and thus the S60V is morewear resistant, while the ATS-34 would be stronger.Toughness: The ability to take an impact without damage, by which wemean, chipping, cracking, etc. Toughness is obviously important injobs such as chopping, but it's also important any time the blade hitsharder impurities in a material being cut (e.g., cardboard, whichoften has embedded impurities).The knifemaker will be making a tradeoff of strength versus toughness.Generally speaking, within the hardness range that the steel performswell at, as hardness increases, strength also increases, but toughnessdecreases. This is not always strictly true, but as a rule of thumbis generally accurate. In addition, it is possible for different heattreat formulas to leave the steel at the same hardness, but withproperties such as toughness, wear resistance, and stain resistancesignificantly differing.Stain resistance (rust resistance): The ability to withstand rust(oxidation). Obviously, this property can be helpful in corrosiveenvironments, such as salt water. In addition, some types ofmaterials are acidic (e.g., some types of foods), and micro-oxidationcan lead to edge loss at the very tip of the edge, over a small amountof time. In "stainless" cutlery steels, stain resistance is mostaffected by free chromium -- that is, chromium that is not tied up incarbides. So, the more chromium tied up in carbides, the less freechromium there is, which means more wear resistance but less stainresistance.Edge holding: The ability of a blade to hold an edge. Many peoplemake the mistake of thinking wear resistance and edge holding are thesame thing. Most assuredly, it is not; or rather, it usually is not.Edge holding is job-specific. That is, edge holding is a function ofwear resistance, strength, and toughness. But different jobs requiredifferent properties for edge holding. For example, cutting throughcardboard (which often has hard embedded impurities), toughnessbecomes extremely important, because micro-chipping is often thereason for edge degradation. Whittling very hard wood, strengthbecomes very important for edge-holding, because the primary reasonfor edge degradation is edge rolling and impaction. Wear resistancebecomes more important for edge holding when very abrasive materials,such as carpet, are being cut. And for many jobs, where corrosion-inducing materials are contacted (such as food prep), corrosion canaffect the edge quickly, so corrosion resistance has a role to playas well.There are other properties that significantly effect how a steelperforms:Ability to take an edge: Some steels just seem to take a much sharperedge than other steels, even if sharpened the exact same way.Finer-grained steels just seem to get scary sharp much more easilythan coarse-grained steels, and this can definitely effectperformance. Adding a bit of vanadium is an easy way to get afine-grained steels. In addition, an objective of the forging processis to end up with a finer-grained steel. So both steel choice, andthe way that steel is handled, can effect cutting performance.Manufacturing process: Cleaner, purer steels perform better thandirtier, impure steels. The cleaner steel will often be stronger andtougher, having less inclusions. High quality processes used tomanufacture performance steel include the Argon/Oxygen/Decarburization(AOD) process, and for even purer steel, the Vacuum InductionMelting/Vacuum Arc Remelting (VIM/VAR) process, often referred to as"double vacuum melting" or "vacuum re-melting".Edge toothiness: Some steels seem to cut aggressively even when razorpolished. For these steels, even when they're polished forpush-cutting, their carbides form a kind of "micro serrations" andslice aggressively.E. What's the "best steel".Understanding these properties will get you started to fundamentallyunderstanding steels and how choice of steel can effect performance.I often see people asking, "what's the best steel"? Well, the answerdepends so much on what the steel is being used for, and how it'sheat-treated, that the questioner can never possibly get an accurateanswer. For a knife lover, it's worth spending a little timeunderstanding steel properties -- only by doing so well he reallyunderstand what the "best steel" might be for his application.Putting it all together, you can see how these properties mightdetermine your steel choice. To pick on S60V and ATS-34 again, thereseems to be a feeling that S60V is "better" in some absolute sensethan ATS-34. But S60V is often left very soft, around 55-56 Rc, tomake up for a lack of toughness. Even left that soft, an abundance ofwell-distributed vanadium carbides gives S60V superior wear resistanceto ATS-34, at acceptable toughness levels. However, does that meanS60V is "better" than ATS-34? Well, many users will find edge rollingand impaction the primary causes of edge degradation for everyday use.For those users, even though S60V is more wear-resistant, S60V is alsoso soft and weak that they will actually see better edge retentionwith ATS-34! The S60V user can leave the edge more obtuse (raise thesharpening angle) to put more metal behind the edge to make it morerobust, but now the S60V will suffer serious cutting performancedisadvantages versus the thinner ATS-34 edge.So, the next general rule:Knowing the uses you'll put your knife to, and exactly howthose uses cause edge degradation, will allow you to make amuch better choice of steel, if you generally understand steelproperties.The properties of different steels will be laid out below. But inyour search for the knife with the "best steel" for your uses, Ialways suggest you ask the makers of the knives you're consideringwhich steels they would use. The knifemaker will usually know whichsteels he can make perform the best. And as pointed out above, heattreat is absolutely critical to bringing out the best in a steel. Amaker who has really mastered one particular steel (e.g., Dozier andD-2) might be able to make that steel work well for many differentuses. So never go just by charts and properties; make sure you alsoconsider what the knifemaker can do with the steel. Non-stainless Steels (carbon, alloy, and tool steels):These steels are the steels most often forged. Stainless steels canbe forged (guys like Sean McWilliams do forge stainless), but it isvery difficult. In addition, carbon steels can be differentiallytempered, to give a hard edge-holding edge and a tough springy back.Stainless steels are not differentially tempered. Of course, carbonsteels will rust faster than stainless steels, to varying degrees.Carbon steels are also often a little bit less of a crap shoot thanstainless steels -- I believe all the steels named below are fineperformers when heat treated properly.In the AISI steel designation system, 10xx is carbon steel, any othersteels are alloy steels. For example, the 50xx series are chromiumsteels.In the SAE designation system, steels with letter designations (e.g.,W-2, A-2) are tool steels.There is an ASM classification system as well, but it isn't seen oftenin the discussion of cutlery steels, so I'll ignore it for now.Often, the last numbers in the name of a steel are fairly close to thesteel's carbon content. So 1095 is ~.95% carbon. 52100 is ~1.0%carbon. 5160 is ~.60% carbon.D-2D-2 is sometimes called a "semi-stainless". It has a fairly highchrome content (12%), but not high enough to classify it as stainless.It is more stain resistant than the carbon steels mentioned above,however. It has excellent wear resistance. D-2 is much tougher thanthe premium stainless steels like ATS-34, but not as tough as many ofthe other non-stainless steels mentioned here. The combination ofgreat wear resistance, almost-stainlessness, and good toughness makeit a great choice for a number of knife styles. Bob Dozier is onemaker who uses D-2. Benchmade has begun using D-2 in its Axis AFCK.M-2A "high-speed steel", it can hold its temper even at very hightemperatures, and as such is used in industry for high-heat cuttingjobs. It is slightly tougher, and is slightly more wear resistant,than D-2. However, M-2 rusts easily. Benchmade has started using M-2in one of their AFCK 710 variations.A-2An excellent air-hardening tool steel, it is tougher than D-2 and M-2,with less wear resistance . As an air-hardening steel, don't expectit to be differentially tempered. Its good toughness makes it afrequent choice for combat knives. Chris Reeve and Phil Hartsfieldboth use A-2.O-1This is a steel very popular with forgers, as it has the reputationfor being "forgiving". It is an excellent steel, that takes and holdsan edge superbly, and is tough (although not as tough as, say, 5160).It rusts easily, however. Randall Knives uses O-1, so does Mad DogKnives.W-2Reasonably tough and holds an edge well, due to its .2% vanadiumcontent. Most files are made from W-1, which is the same as W-2except for the vanadium content (W-1 has no vanadium).The 10-series -- 1095 (and 1084, 1070, 1060, 1050, etc.) Many of the10-series steels for cutlery, though 1095 is the most popular forknives. When you go in order from 1095-1050, you generally go frommore carbon to less, from more wear resistance to less wearresistance, and tough to tougher to toughest. As such, you'll see1060 and 1050, used often for swords. For knives, 1095 is sort of the"standard" carbon steel, not too expensive and performs well. It isreasonably tough and holds an edge well, and is easy to sharpen. Itrusts easily. This is a simple steel, which contains only twoalloying elements: .95% carbon and .4% manganese. The various kabarsare usually 1095 with a black coating.Carbon VCarbon V is a trademarked term by Cold Steel, and as such is notnecessarily one particular kind of steel; rather, it describeswhatever steel Cold Steel happens to be using, and there is anindication they do change steels from time to time. Carbon V performsroughly between 1095-ish and O-1-ish, in my opinion, and rusts likeO-1 as well. I've heard rumors that Carbon V is O-1 (which I think isunlikely) or 1095. Numerous industry insiders insist it is 0170-6.Some spark tests done by a rec.knives reader seem to point the fingerat 50100-B. Since 50100-B and 0170-6 are the same steel (see below),this is likely the current Carbon V.0170-6 - 50100-BThese are different designations for the same steel: 0170-6 is thesteel makers classification, 50100-B is the AISI designation. A goodchrome-vanadium steel that is somewhat similar to O-1, but much lessexpensive. The now-defunct Blackjack made several knives from O170-6,and Carbon V may be 0170-6. 50100 is basically 52100 with about 1/3the chromium of 52100, and the B in 50100-B indicates that the steelhas been modified with vanadium, making this a chrome-vanadium steel.L-6A band saw steel that is very tough and holds an edge well, but rustseasily. It is, like O-1, a forgiving steel for the forger. If you'rewilling to put up with the maintenance, this may be one of the verybest steels available for cutlery, especially where toughness isdesired. In a poll on the knifemakers email list back in the 1990s,when asked what the makers would use for their personal knife, L-6emerged as the top choice.5160A steel popular with forgers, it is popular now for a variety of knifestyles, but usually bigger blades that need more toughness. It isessentially a simple spring steel with chromium added forhardenability. It has good wear resistance, but is known especiallyfor its outstanding toughness. This steel performs well over a widerange of hardnesses, showing great toughess when hardened in the low50s Rc for swords, and hardened up near the 60s for knives needingmore edge holding.52100Formerly a ball-bearing steel, and as such previously only used byforgers, it's available in bar stock now. It is similar to 5160(though it has around 1% carbon vs. 5160 ~.60%), but holds an edgebetter. It is less tough than 5160. It is used often for huntingknives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off alittle of 5160's toughness for better wear resistance. However, withthe continued improvement of 52100 heat treat, this steel is startingto show up in larger knives and showing excellent toughness. Amodified 52100 is being used by Jerry Busse in his lower-costproduction line, and such high-performance knife luminaries as EdFowler strongly favor 52100.CPM 10VCrucible's somewhat-stain-resistant 10V provides incredible wearresistance with D-2-class toughness. It is an oustanding choice whenmaximum wear resistance is desired, but not super toughness.CPM 3VCPM's incredibly tough 3V gives excellent wear resistance and goodstain resistance as well, although when it does stain, it is said topit rather than surface rust. When maximum toughness is desired, withvery good wear resistance, 3V is a great choice.INFIINFI is currently only used by Jerry Busse. In place of some of thecarbon (INFI contains .5% carbon), INFI has nitrogen. The result is anon-stainless steel that is nevertheless extremely stain resistant(informally reported at close to D-2, or even better), incrediblytough for a high-alloy ingot steel, and with extremely good wearresistance.VascowearA very hard-to-find steel, with a high vanadium content. It isextremely difficult to work and very wear-resistant. It is out ofproduction. Stainless Steels Remember that all steels can rust. But the following steels, byvirtue of their > 13% chromium, have much more rust resistance thanthe above steels. I should point out that there doesn't appear to beconsensus on what percent of chromium is needed for a steel to beconsidered stainless. In the cutlery industry, the de-facto standardis 13%, but the ASM Metals Handbooks says "greater than 10%", andother books cite other numbers. It probably makes more sense tomeasure stainlessness byt he amount of free chromium (chromium nottied up in carbides), because free chromium is what forms the chromiumoxide on the blade surface that offers stain resistance. The alloyingelements have a strong influence on the amount of chromium needed;lower chromium with the right alloying elements can still have"stainless" performance.Because any particular stainless steel is often heat treated to aroundthe same hardness (i.e., 440C is usually around 57 Rc, ATS-34 is 59-61Rc, S60V is getting consensus at around 56 Rc, etc.) even by differentmanufacturers, it's a bit easier to give a general feeling of theperformance you'll get from different classes of stainless steels,without introducing too many inaccuracies. Please note, though, thatthe act of grouping differing steels in classes definitely doesoversimplify, and some of these steels might more properly fit betweenthe class it's in, and the following (or previous) one. In addition,better heat treat can move a steel up in performance significantly.Last disclaimer: not everyone will agree with the groupings I havehere. Whew, all that said, here is a general categorization ofstainless steels:420 and 420J represent the low end of stainless steels. They are verystain resistant, and are tough due to being very soft. However, theyare also very weak, and not very wear resistant. Generally speaking,expect these steels to lose their edge quickly through abrasion andimpaction. They are used in less-expensive knives due to their easeof machining.440A and its relative peers, 425M, 420HC, 12C27, and 6A are the nextgroup. They can be hardened more than the previous group, for betterstrength, and they are more wear resistant, though wear resistance isjust getting to the point of acceptability. 440A and 12C27 are theleaders of this group, with solid heat treat both perform okay. 12C27is said to be particularly pure and can perform very well when heattreated properly. 6A trails those two steels, though with itsvanadium content, can take a razor edge. 425M and 420HC trail therest, though the highest-carbon versions of 420HC may compete withnext group.Gin-1, ATS-55, 8A, and 440C comprise the next group. These steelswill usually be stronger than the previous group, and morewear-resistant. Generally speaking, they retain excellent stainresistance properties, though ATS-55 sticks out here as notparticularly stain resistant. 8A is also worth a mention, with somevanadium content, it can take an extremely sharp edge very easily, butis also the weakest and least wear-resistant of this group.ATS-34/154CM, VG-10, and S60V are the next group up. It's difficultto make generalizations about ATS-34 and 154-CM -- they are in suchwidespread use that heat treat varies widely. These steels provide ahigh-end performance benchmark for stainless steels, and hold an edgewell, and are tough enough for many uses (though not on par with goodnon-stainlesses). They aren't very stain resistant, however. VG-10can be thought of as being like ATS-34 and 154-CM, but doing justabout everything a hair better. It's a little more stain resistant,tougher, holds an edge a little better. And VG-10 has vanadium in it,it's fine-grained and takes the best edge of this group. S60V has byfar the best wear resistance of the group, though consensus isbecoming that it should be left around the same hardness as 440C(56ish Rc), which means it will be relatively weak compared to ATS-34,154-CM, and VG-10, and so it will indent and lose its edge quicklywhen strength is required. S60V is the winner here when pureabrasion resistance is much more important than edge strength.BG-42, S90V, and S30V constitute the next group. BG-42 has betterwear resistance than all the previous steels except for S60V. It istougher than ATS-34, and more stain resistant. It is wear resistantto the point where it can be difficult to sharpen. S90V representsthe ultimate in wear resistance in the steels discussed so far. Alsotougher than ATS-34, and more stain resistant. It can be verydifficult to put an edge on. It is difficult enough to machine thanit is used almost exclusively in custom knives, not productionknives. In your buying decisions, you might want to take into accountthe difficulty of sharpening these steels. S30V backs off on the wearresistance of S90V, but is significantly tougher and easier tosharpen. It is more wear resistant than BG-42. But, both BG-42 andS90V get a bit harder (and stronger) than S30V. The jury is stillout, but it may end up this week's ultimate high-end all-aroundstainless steel, due to high performance coupled with easiermachineability and sharpenability than the other steels in this class.Okay, on to the steels in more detail:420Lower carbon content (<.5%) than the 440 series makes this steelextremely soft, and it doesn't hold an edge well. It is used oftenfor diving knives, as it is extremely stain resistant. Also usedoften for very inexpensive knives. Outside salt water use, it is toosoft to be a good choice for a utility knife.420HC420 modified with more carbon, to be roughly comparable to 440A.440 A - 440 B - 440CThe carbon content (and hardenability) of this stainless steel goes upin order from A (.75%) to B (.9%) to C (1.2%). 440C is an excellent,high-end stainless steel, usually hardened to around 56-58 Rc, verytough and with good edge-holding at that hardness. 440C was the kingof stainless cutlery steels in the 1980s, before ATS-34 took the titlein the 1990s. All three resist rust well, with 440A being the mostrust resistant, and 440C the least. The SOG Seal 2000 is 440A, andRandall uses 440B for their stainless knives. 440C is fairlyubiquitous, and is generally considered a very good general-usestainless, tougher and more stain resistant than ATS-34 but with lessedge-holding and weaker. If your knife is marked with just "440", itis probably the less expensive 440A; if a manufacturer had used themore expensive 440C, he'd want to advertise that. The general feelingis that 440A (and similar steels, see below) is just good enough foreveryday use, especially with a good heat treat (we've heard goodreports on the heat treat of SOG's 440A blades, don't know who doesthe work for them). 440-B is a very solid performer and 440-C isexcellent.425M - 12C27Both are very similar to 440A. 425M (.5% carbon) is used by Buckknives. 12C27 (.6% carbon) is a Scandanavian steel used often inFinish puukkos and Norwegian knives. 12C27 is said to perform verywell when carefully heat treated, due to its high purity. When doneright, it may be a slighter better choice than 440A and its ilk.AUS-6 - AUS-8 - AUS-10 (aka 6A 8A 10A)Japanese stainless steels, roughly comparable in carbon content to440A (AUS-6, .65% carbon) and 440B (AUS-8, .75% carbon) and 440C(AUS-10, 1.1% carbon). AUS-6 is used by Al Mar, and is a competitorto low-end steels like 420J. Cold Steel's use of AUS-8 has made itpretty popular, as heat treated by CS it won't hold an edge likeATS-34, but is a bit softer (and therefore weaker) and tougher. 8A isa competitor of middle-tier steels like ATS-55 and Gin-1. AUS-10 hasroughly the same carbon content as 440C but with slightly lesschromium, so it should be a bit less rust resistant but perhaps a bittougher than 440C. It competes with higher-end steels, like ATS-34and above. All 3 steels have some vanadium added (which the 440series lacks), which will improve wear resistance and refines thegrain for both good toughness, and the ability to sharpen to a verykeen edge. Many people have reported that they are able to get knivesusing steels that include vanadium, like 8A, sharper than they can getnon-vanadium steels like ATS-34.GIN-1 aka G-2A steel with slightly less carbon, slightly more chromium, and muchless moly than ATS-34, it used to be used often by Spyderco in theirless-expensive knives. Spyderco has since switched to ATS-55 and 8A,but Benchmade is now using Gin-1 in their less-expensive knives. Avery good stainless steel, with a bit less wear resistance and strengththan ATS-34.ATS-34 - 154-CMATS-34 was the hottest high-end stainless in the 1990s. 154-CMis the original American version, but for a long time was notmanufactured to the high quality standards knifemakers expect, soknifemakers switched over to ATS-34. CPM is again making high-quality154-CM, and some companies seeking to stick with American-madeproducts (like Microtech) are using it. ATS-34 is a Hitachi productthat is very, very similar to 154-CM. Normally hardened to around 60Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that highhardness. Not as rust resistant as the 400 series above. Many custommakers use ATS-34, and Spyderco (in their high-end knives) andBenchmade are among the production companies that use it.Contrary to popular belief, both steels are manufactured throughthe Argon/Oxygen/Decarburization process (AOD), not vacuumremelted.ATS-55Similar to ATS-34, but with the moly removed and some otherelements added. This steel is a good cutlery steel but a tier behindATS-34 and its closest competitors (other steels in ATS-55's classmight be Gin-1 and AUS-8). With the molybdenum removed, ATS-55 doesnot seem to hold an edge quite like ATS-34, and reports are that it'sless rust-resistant. My guess is that with the moly gone, morechromium is tied up in carbides -- which means less free chromium forrust resistance, and softer chromium carbides replacing moly carbidesfor less wear resistance.VG-10Another vanadium-containing high-end stainless steel. Due to thevanadium content, VG-10 takes a killer edge, just like other vanadiumsteels like BG-42 and AUS-8. VG-10 is also tougher and morerust-resistant than ATS-34, and seems to hold an edge better.BG-42BG-42 is somewhat similar to ATS-34, with two major differences: It hastwice as much manganese as ATS-34, and has 1.2% vanadium (ATS-34 has novanadium), so look for significantly better edge-holding than ATS-34.The addition of vanadium and the clean manufacturing process (VIM/VAR)also gives BG-42 better toughness than ATS-34. Chris Reeve switchedfrom ATS-34 to BG-42 in his Sebenzas, but has now moved to S30V.S30V - S60V (CPM T440V) - S90V (CPM T420V)Two steels that hold an edge superbly, world class type edgeholding,but it can be difficult to get the edge there in the first place.These steels are made with Crucible's particle metallurgy process, andthat process allows these steels to be packed with more alloyingelements than traditional steel manufacturing methods would allow.Both steels are very high in vanadium, which accounts for theirincredible wear resistanceg. Spyderco offers at least one model in CPMS60V. Spyderco, one major user of S60V, has cut back hardnessdown to 55-56Rc, in order to keep toughness acceptable, but thatsacrifices strength so there is a tradeoff. S90V is CPM'sfollow-on to 440V, and with less chromium and almost double thevanadium, is more wear-resistant and tougher than S60V -- and, infact, is probably more wear-resistant than any other stainlesssteel used in the cutlery industry. As such, S90Vis in the running with steels like BG-42 as among the bestgeneral-purpose stainless steels; however, S90V is even more expensiveand difficult to work than BG-42, so it's strictly in the realm ofcustom makers currently..CPM S30V:The newest stainless steel from Crucible, purpose-designed as acutlery steel. This steel gives A-2-class toughness and almost-S90Vclass wear resistance, at reasonable hardness (~59-60 Rc). This mixof attributes is making S30V one of the hottest stainless steelsgoing, with makes such as Chris Reeve switching from BG-42 to S30V.Will this be the new king of general-purpose stainless cutlery steels?We'll know over the next couple of years.400 Series StainlessBefore Cold Steel switched to AUS-8, many of their stainless productswere marketed as being of "400 Series Stainless". Other knifecompanies are beginning to use the same term. What exactly *is* 400Series Stainless? I always imagined it was 440-A, but there's nothingto keep a company from using any 4xx steel, like 420 or 425M, andcalling it 400 Series Stainless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Uddeholm UHB 20 and ASSAB K120C are what have my intrest as of right now.. a good electric jolt and all the molecules in the steel line up "perfectly" ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 even the best steel sucks, if not properly tempered. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 A good heat treatment is mandatory. Ive seen "super" steels fail to carbon steels due to poor heat treatment. And Juggs, Id like to find a few blades in those steels as well if the design is something Id be interested in. But for now, Im still wanting a Busse. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Odd Man Out 1,283 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Great thread -- uber informative. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 Busse AK is on my bucket list.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 One thing I didnt see in the OP was anything about the N690 steel. Its Italian, and a very good stainless steel used fairly widely throughout Europe. Busse AK is on my bucket list.. Now we're talkin Juggs. Great thread -- uber informative. Thanks Oddman. I was hoping it would be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted April 26, 2013 Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 420C is bare min I prefer ATS-34, S30V, and D2 I don't mind maintaining my ladies with a little care for all the benefits I get. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted April 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2013 As odd as this may sound, Im a fan of 1095. With the right heat treat, angle and coating, it will perform very well. I actually prefer my larger knives to be made of this or spring steel. It holds a good edge, takes one very easy, and just plain gets the job done. The biggest downside is the carbon content will let it rust fairly easy if not cared for. But again, its a non issue if you do your part. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted April 27, 2013 Report Share Posted April 27, 2013 As odd as this may sound, Im a fan of 1095. With the right heat treat, angle and coating, it will perform very well. I actually prefer my larger knives to be made of this or spring steel. It holds a good edge, takes one very easy, and just plain gets the job done. The biggest downside is the carbon content will let it rust fairly easy if not cared for. But again, its a non issue if you do your part. Oh dude heck ya. Spring steel is a mother fucker, love the new order blacksmith stuff made out of it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 My VG-10 knife lives up to the reputation. ATS 55 was pretty good too. It sharpened up more quickly and unsurprsingly need it a bit more often. I was not impressed with AUS 8. 440-C seems to be mid grade at best although sometimes it can be OK. I've got a knife in 9CR18MO bearing steel. That is very tough stuff too. I hope to get one or two ZDP-189 blades for every day use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I've got quite a few nice 440-C blades by Benchmade, but that's Benchmade for you, they know what they do. 440C is what the chef's seem to prefer, and I have good luck with it in the kitchen and I like it on a Bali-song. I'm a big fan of VG-10 also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 I have a cartoonish 440-C benchmade my brother got me while he was working for them. I would call the steel adequate. The knife is mostly a toy, but it is one that everyone wants to play with. It is hard to put down. Anytime I have shown it, everyone in the room will want to play with it including the girls. I usually get offers. The belt pouch makes a decent mag carrier, so that is the part that gets my use most often. Here is a review. someone did. It is surprisingly comfortable in the pocket, which I would not have believed. I normally like the pocket clip on the other end. This knife is almost hard not to gravity open. It is very smooth and natural. I would never use the thumb stud. I mostly use it as a picnic/camp knife for food preparation as a sort of pocket chef's knife. The hollow grind is pleasing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted April 28, 2013 Report Share Posted April 28, 2013 Im a fan of the carbon steels. I carry a 1095 fixed blade everyday. I like it. If I get lost or whatever I can sharpen it on a rock. You guys need to check out B.R.T. Bladeworks this guy is amazing. He has a knife called the bomb proof knife (BPK) it's all steel no Handel the steel is made to look like knapped Im a fan of the carbon steels. I carry a 1095 fixed blade everyday. I like it. If I get lost or whatever I can sharpen it on a rock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.