Newbie Here... What Gas Plug is This?

[dmoss8928 1]

I just bought my first Saiga 12 and I'm in love with and havnt even shot it yet haha... I got it late last night and I been reading and watching videos about the gas plug and shooting low brass ammo. Its a converted S12 but I wanted to know if this was the factory plug are a aftermarket one? Any ideas?

 

Also can someone quickly educate me on the how the gas plug, pluk, and gas blocks works? Sorry for the lack of smartness haha just want make sure I understand it all so I can take care of my new baby ... thanks ya'll... peace!!

[romad7 75]

That's looks factory to me.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/262-gas-regulator-adjustment/

Edited May 1, 2013 by romad7

[HotShot308 11]

That's the stock plug. Position 1 is for high power loads such as high-brass and slugs. Position 2 is only for lighter stuff.

[romad7 75]

Quick lesson.

 

1. Gas enters block through holes in the barrel, gas plug regulates the amount of gas allow into the block

 

2. Gas pushes puck to the rear impacting the gas piston rod

 

3. Piston rod is connected to bolt carrier, entire assembly is pushed to the rear ejecting the spent shell

 

Also, this is a subject that has been discussed probably more than most so Google is your friend. Not trying to blow you off but the threads on this subject contain more info than I could post here and well worth studying.

 

Have fun with your Saiga and let us know if you get stuck on anything that you can't find answers for.

Edited May 1, 2013 by romad7

[dmoss8928 1]

Awesome info thanks guys... Looking at the photo is which ever number is close to the stop pin is the number its set on right?

 

And I got another question and I know its prolly been as 10000 times but if I go to a new gas plug which is better the v - plug or the TAC 47 auto plug and would I need to change the Puck as well?

 

Thanks again for the help... Peace!!

[bobabuee 29]

welcome,

 

stock plug ,you need to shoot it and post results any issues like FTE's etc...

 

you will want to read even print out this post study it solves most problems and answers.

 

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/82039-not-cycling-high-brass-help-a-newbie-out/&do=findComment&comment=825101

[bobabuee 29]

yes,

 

don't buy any parts yet shoot it the more internal parts you change the harder it is to find out what is wrong with it if there is anything

with it.

 

shoot it with the ammo you are going to shoot it with if everthing goes well then go to autoplug get to know your gun before adding parts most of internal reilibity parts are bandades for gas system that maybe the problem in most guns. also need to check how smooth bolt carrier slide you don't want It to be rough.

 

since you are new to this. post some pic of gun

[dmoss8928 1]

I will mostly be shooting low brass target loads from Walmart since it came with a Slide Fire stock so I will be shooting mostly for fun.... Here is a pic of her... and again thanks for the info I will be updateing the post on what I exp. this weekend with it....

 

This is without the Slide FIre stock

 

Edited May 1, 2013 by dmoss8928

[Terminator03 18]

Super nice looking rig! As said, don't get caught up in changing out parts until you identify issues that NEED fixing. This forum is an awesome resource, and I would recommend starting out by reading all of the sticky threads because you will learn a ton about this platform just from those threads. I would love to try a slide fire on one of these! Try to video it and post it on here!

[dmoss8928 1]

Super nice looking rig! As said, don't get caught up in changing out parts until you identify issues that NEED fixing. This forum is an awesome resource, and I would recommend starting out by reading all of the sticky threads because you will learn a ton about this platform just from those threads. I would love to try a slide fire on one of these! Try to video it and post it on here!

 

Once I get it shooting like I like I'll be sure to get ya'll a video maybe even get the wife to try out the Slide Fire first

[gunfun 3,931]

I suggest putting that sissy pad on the slide fire when you do.

[dmoss8928 1]

Okay guys after cleaning, oiling and cleaning out all 4 gas ports with a paper clip I'm still having a problem with FTE. I'm shooting Federal loads 2 3/4, 1 1/8 oz, 7 1/2 shot, and 1145 FPS on setting 2. Every shell gets hunged up in the action. I tried on setting 1 to see what it would do and nothing happens the action dosn't even move back I had to pull the charging handle manuel. Is that normal? Please any help will be of great help. I took the guy apart and cleaned it and the punk and gas chamber too...

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

Okay guys after cleaning, oiling and cleaning out all 4 gas ports with a paper clip I'm still having a problem with FTE. I'm shooting Federal loads 2 3/4, 1 1/8 oz, 7 1/2 shot, and 1145 FPS on setting 2. Every shell gets hunged up in the action. I tried on setting 1 to see what it would do and nothing happens the action dosn't even move back I had to pull the charging handle manuel. Is that normal? Please any help will be of great help. I took the guy apart and cleaned it and the punk and gas chamber too...

 

You're trying to shoot 2 3/4 DRAM loads out of a gun that wasn't designed for it. Notice that's DRAM and not shell length.

 

Sounds like you need to do two things....

1. Start shooting higher powered loads.

2. Start modifying the firearm.

 

What modifications? Look into your port sizes by taking off the gas block. Chances are you'll need to drill some ports. The second thing you can do is profiling the bolt. Members here debate back and forth what to do first. I say drill the ports while others will mention the profile. I have a hunch your build is under-gassed. Whatever you do don't get all pissed off and give up on your S-12 like my neighbor did. The Russians use this gun to shoot high powered loads like slug and buckshot. You my friend are trying to shoot bird shoot. Modify, modify, modify...

[dmoss8928 1]

If the gun as 4 gas ports on if then I shouldn't have to drill more should I? What kind of bolt mods would I need to do? And If its under gassed would the auto plug help me to get more gas flow? Thanks for the repley...

[HighPlainsDrifter 466]

If the gun as 4 gas ports on if then I shouldn't have to drill more should I? What kind of bolt mods would I need to do? And If its under gassed would the auto plug help me to get more gas flow? Thanks for the repley...

 

My build has 4 ports, all were undersized with two that were not drilled completely through. You won't be able to determine what condition yours are in until you take off the gas block.

 

The bolt mod it called profiling. Read some stickies and you'll understand what I mean. Basically you round the sharp edges of the bolt which reduces friction/resistance when the bolt rotates over the 1st shell in the magazine.

 

No, the autoplug will not help an undergassed build. Only put it on after it's in running order.

Edited May 5, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter

[dmoss8928 1]

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

[romad7 75]

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

 

Are you saying that you had 3 Fail to Eject out of 10 with the factory 5? I wouldn't call that good. Maybe decent with an unmodified gun but it also depends on what you want, if you want to run the lightest stuff reliably then I say you have some work to do. Rounds getting stuck on ejection sounds like not enough gas to eject properly.

 

I would remove the UTG rail and put the stock handguard back on. There are stories of that causing issues, not sure how true that is but its a good idea to be as close to stock as you can for troubleshooting. See if that helps at all.

 

You will likely have to clean up the ports. If there are 4 exposed ports then its an easy fix to make them a little bigger at a time until its good.

[gunfun 3,931]

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

 

Only way to know if it will run proper ammo is test with proper ammo. If you can shoot an 100 round pack of ammo that has 1 1/8 oz (or more)of projectile moving at a claimed 1200 FPS (or more) reliably then your gun works properly. This should be tested with your worst magazine and should be true no matter how well or badly you hold the gun. You cannot expect it to run ammo weaker than that reliably without tuning the gun in a way that compromizes durability with max power 3" magnums.

 

There are no shortcuts to this. Simply get at least a couple boxes of baseline ammo, and test that. Use your factory parts on setting 2.

[dmoss8928 1]

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

 

Are you saying that you had 3 Fail to Eject out of 10 with the factory 5? I wouldn't call that good. Maybe decent with an unmodified gun but it also depends on what you want, if you want to run the lightest stuff reliably then I say you have some work to do. Rounds getting stuck on ejection sounds like not enough gas to eject properly.

 

I would remove the UTG rail and put the stock handguard back on. There are stories of that causing issues, not sure how true that is but its a good idea to be as close to stock as you can for troubleshooting. See if that helps at all.

 

You will likely have to clean up the ports. If there are 4 exposed ports then its an easy fix to make them a little bigger at a time until its good.

 

 

I can hear the puck sliding back and forth in the chamber so would that mean the hand rail isn't a problem?

 

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

 

Only way to know if it will run proper ammo is test with proper ammo. If you can shoot an 100 round pack of ammo that has 1 1/8 oz (or more)of projectile moving at a claimed 1200 FPS (or more) reliably then your gun works properly. This should be tested with your worst magazine and should be true no matter how well or badly you hold the gun. You cannot expect it to run ammo weaker than that reliably without tuning the gun in a way that compromizes durability with max power 3" magnums.

 

There are no shortcuts to this. Simply get at least a couple boxes of baseline ammo, and test that. Use your factory parts on setting 2.

 

Thats for the advice Gun Fun I will get to Wal MArt and get some base line ammo and do some testing... thanks again guys and I'm sorry for asking what should be easy question prolly...

[gunfun 3,931]

puck should slide. The UTG problem typically arises when the gun heats up.

 

He makes a good point though. When troubleshooting, you eliminate as many variables as you can and only change one thing at at time. There is a link in my signature line below with a discussion of a systematic process to keep you from chasing your tail. Then you will know what you know and what you don't know and it will minimize wasted ammo and trips to the range.

 

There are a few things I would change in that post, but the whole thread should tell you lots of people have theories, but only a few work for everyone if followed.

[Terminator03 18]

As HPD suggested, even if you "see" 4 ports, it does not mean they are the correct size, or even that they are drilled all the way through. In my case, I could only "see" 3 ports looking in the gas block hole. When I pulled the block off, which is very easy by way, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I actually had 4 ports, but one was not all the way through, and they were all undersized. They need to be at least .078" as has been established as a good baseline size for reliable function on cheap ammo. Note, that you will still need to use setting #2 even after drilling the ports, profiling and polishing the bolt, etc. Number #1 is just for the hotter loads. If you can cycle low brass on setting #1, then it means you are likely over-gassed, and that will beat the hell out of the gun when running the high powered loads.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Terminator03

[dmoss8928 1]

Thanks for the reply Terminator03... I got some Winchester SS which was 1300FPS, 8 shot, and 1 1/8oz and I shot all 25 rounds with no FTE!! Shoot them out of the factory 5 round, promag 10 round and promag 20 round drum, so next I'm going to try some 1200 FPS with 7 shot and see how she does. I WAS trying with the Federal at 1175 FPS and 7 shot and that might just be to light of a load for any Saiga?

[Nephilim7 107]

 

Let me give you a quick update... I WAS using a Promag 10 round mag and shot 10 rounds and were getting stuck (FTE). Someone told me to stick with the factory mag so I shot 2 mags (10 rounds) using the factory mag and I had 3 shell to eject and the gun loaded the next round. So thats good right since its the cheapest ammo at walmart and only 1175 FPS? Since it did do 3 rounds right then I shouldn't have to do no drilling to the ports?

 

Only way to know if it will run proper ammo is test with proper ammo. If you can shoot an 100 round pack of ammo that has 1 1/8 oz (or more)of projectile moving at a claimed 1200 FPS (or more) reliably then your gun works properly. This should be tested with your worst magazine and should be true no matter how well or badly you hold the gun. You cannot expect it to run ammo weaker than that reliably without tuning the gun in a way that compromizes durability with max power 3" magnums.

 

 

 

 

Reread what GunFun told you. He is right. There are plenty of purpose-built competition guns tuned to run a specific light load. They do that very well. However, if you ran 3" Remington Express 00 Buck through those guns without modifying them, they would likely be damaged or fail. The generally accepted, most versatile reliability benchmark is being able to reliably (shooting a drum from the hip) run Winchester Universal bulk pack loads (barely 3 DRAM - available in 100ct packs at Walmart) up to the heaviest 3" loads. Universal is significantly cleaner running than its Federal competition, and it is sometime slightly lower DRAM equivalent. Winchester Universal is an excellent baseline, however some stop modding their gun before 100/100 reliability with it. It's your gun; Enjoy it!