irishrifleman 4 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 So I have been lurking around for a while, did tons or research and acquired a saiga in a trade. The rifle when I got it was un converted, and I have thus far done all conversion sections. Stock, pg, hand guards, gas tube, hand guard retainer, gas block, front sight block blah blah blah... Upon first inspection the bullet guide was installed, but there was no screw Well, when I stripped the rifle, the stripper got on the BG and whatever bubba used to secure it softened and the BG came off. So I cleaned off all epoxy or gum, or what ever in the hell got used, and got a tap and drill bit and screw to do it right. Well.. here is the cru..i guess whoever started to do it fouled it up and just jb'd it to fill the miss drilled hole, now I have broken five bits, dulled another 3 and not even close to being able to get the hole thru. maybe I got a 64th of an inch, or less. any sugestions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 (edited) now I have broken five bits, dulled another 3 and not even close to being able to get the hole thru. maybe I got a 64th of an inch, or less. any sugestions? go to a garage sale and look for drill bit set that were made in the 60 or 70s that say USA on them, CRAFTSMAN are the most common I see and buy. the drill bits now are all crap chinese junk, only good for drilling into wood or plastic...maybe. while you're add it pick up a set of tap and die set that were made in the 60 or 70 CRAFTSMAN again. you'll find out when you try to tap the hole that chinese crap won't even start to put in threads and will break, if the chinese drill bit won't even drill a hole, what would make you think that crap chinese tap will make threads? the bullet guide and trunion steel in the is going to be a lot harder then the POS chinese tap is made from I have replaced 80 percent of my Chinese crap tools with garage sales made in the USA ones. Edited May 7, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 now I have broken five bits, dulled another 3 and not even close to being able to get the hole thru. maybe I got a 64th of an inch, or less. any sugestions? go to a garage sale and look for drill bit set that were made in the 60 or 70s that say USA on them, CRAFTSMAN are the most common I see and buy. the drill bits now are all crap chinese junk, only good for drilling into wood or plastic...maybe. while you're add it pick up a set of tap and die set that were made in the 60 or 70 CRAFTSMAN again. you'll find out when you try to tap the hole that chinese crap won't even start to put in threads and will break, if the chinese drill bit won't even drill a hole, what would make you think that crap chinese tap will make threads? the bullet guide and trunion steel in the is going to be a lot harder then the POS chinese tap is made from I have replaced 80 percent of my Chinese crap tools with garage sales made in the USA ones. Ya what Matt said, one aspect of work I had to deal with for years was lesser quality tools and I started looking at what the older guys were using and a lot was older tools such as that. A lot of new snap on and other newer US made stuff also, but that's usually the guys that had tool debt out the nose. I've found great deals on old tools on craigslist ads for estate sales and also on Ebay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theorangeplanet 968 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 If you can get someone to weld it, just skip the hole drill/tap and weld that sucker in there. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted May 7, 2013 Report Share Posted May 7, 2013 Cheap china bit do suck ass. I use the Thunderbits from Snap-on. They cost a tiny bit more than most depending on the size, but they last much longer than any other bits Ive ever used, especially the shitty chinese bits. They are 135 degree split point, but I still use a center punch for my guides. Or you could weld it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 + 1 to the weld suggestion. rather than hunting garage sales- why not just spen $1.40 on a cobalt bit at an industial supply. Who has time to shop for antique tools at a garage sale? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 + 1 to the weld suggestion. rather than hunting garage sales- why not just spen $1.40 on a cobalt bit at an industial supply. Who has time to shop for antique tools at a garage sale? those are more likely to be made in china as well. I make the time to shop for "antique tools", because those are going to be of higher quality then anything made now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 That might help him a year from now when he gets lucky, but I bet he would like to use his gun soon. There are plenty of industrial suppliers who sell US made cobalt bits and they brag about it when they do. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bws1 58 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 I went through the exact same excersise, only I broke the #6 tap in the hole a number of times. I wound up shattering the bit with a hardened punch. I had a number of the older craftsman drill bits and some old vermon american and all of them were ruined on that fucking tap, because the metal in the tap was a hell of a lot harder than the drill bits. Take it to a competent gunsmith, or someone who has one hell of a machine shop, that doesn't mind working on weapons, and have them drill it, just a smidge bigger than what would be necessary for a #8 metal screw. You'll have to either find the proper length 6x32 screw, and hex nut. There's enough space under the trunion to slide a nut, and a small wrench and you can simply bolt the bg down. I'm convinced that anybody who uses JB Weld to secure a bg down, at some point in time, will become yet another statistic in natural selection. But this is one of a number of solutions you could use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 (edited) Didn't even think of this, but one of my fav MANLY toy stores is a place called threads for the south, they have a few locations, guess in what region lol They sell tons of stuff, but quality fasteners, bits, taps, dies etc are the specialty Edited May 8, 2013 by Syndicate Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Grind out as much of the tap as you can with a dremmel and carbide, then degrease (as no doubt you used some oil to lube that tap and drill) and have that sucker tig welded in there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irishrifleman 4 Posted May 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 Wow guys thanks for all the replies! After alternating between 4 bits I was able to get some materiel away and it seems now as if there is a broken bit in the wrong place AND it was jb welded to fill the hole and bury the bit.....Sooooo I guess the thing to do now is find me a tig welder to just weld the fookin thing in there. Thanks again fellows for the replies, its nice to have a place to go and get the good skinny! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 It doesn't even need to be tig welded, any mig will work. Set the bullet guide where you want it. Center the mig up on the hole then give it a 2-3 second burst. You will not blow a hole in anything and the worst case scenario is you might have to grind a little nipple down. This is the method I use to attach muzzle brakes to the barrel permanently. ANY welding shop can do it and probably most home hobby guys with a mig. I would walk into, and not just call, a local welding shop and ask a manager if any of his guys could do it. From my experience most welders are also gun guys and would get a kick out of doing it. Do not fool with trying a arc. Although it is possible I find arc tends to be more for larger pieces and less for precise work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 8, 2013 Report Share Posted May 8, 2013 (edited) If you mig it, you had better be sure you don't get any splatter or arc marks on machined faces. Like lugs or say in your chamber. Also it's going to be harder to fit that mig nozzle inside your receive yet alone be able to "work the puddle" or even see the part, and ensure a good tie in of material.. But hey if working blind is your specialty go ahead.. I'm sure a gun Smith will be happy to fix it for you. Edited May 9, 2013 by poolingmyignorance 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TYBOY 33 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Craftsman tools have gone downhill. Stay away from their cordless drills, multimeters, etc. Their wrenches are still ok as long as you don´t need that thinner Snap-on for certain applications. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cguiro 29 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole area Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdub23 21 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 (edited) If you can get someone to weld it, just skip the hole drill/tap and weld that sucker in there. Ding, Ding, we have a winner. All that fargaling around and one pop would cure all your ailments The only guy that I know that does them for others only uses a weld. The worst worry is actually melting or disfiguring the BG which I have never seen happen. Find a dude that goes by Turbothius on TheAKforum, he won't charge you much and you will have the piece of mind that the piece wont come loose and a rare poss of an OOB happening. I actually drilled, tapped and then drilled down the side between the screw and the wedge and peened a rived down in there with red locktite liberally spread beneath the BG and on threads. That bitch aint moving. Modify Weiger, chinese, and promag to fit. Snap the shit BG off promag and the rest need a little modifying. If you don't modify the magwell galil mags drop right in for me. Edited May 9, 2013 by jdub23 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole areaNot titanium, solid carbide. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cguiro 29 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole areaNot titanium, solid carbide. True. Titanium tipped and coated ones i got at lowes worked fine for a snapped drill bit. Carbide would make fast clean work of the snapped bit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole areaNot titanium, solid carbide. True. Titanium tipped and coated ones i got at lowes worked fine for a snapped drill bit. Carbide would make fast clean work of the snapped bit Carbide is what is used to cut the taps from blanks. It's not cheap, and if you find a way to chip the edge of the drill bit you'll have hell finding something hard enough to sharpen it... but it will cut through hardened steel like a knife through butter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cguiro 29 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Share Posted May 9, 2013 Good to know ty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dolomite_supafly 56 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole areaNot titanium, solid carbide. True. Titanium tipped and coated ones i got at lowes worked fine for a snapped drill bit. Carbide would make fast clean work of the snapped bit Carbide is what is used to cut the taps from blanks. It's not cheap, and if you find a way to chip the edge of the drill bit you'll have hell finding something hard enough to sharpen it... but it will cut through hardened steel like a knife through butter. Green wheel for a bench grinder. They are pretty cheap and easy to find. I sharpen carbide bits for my lathe all the time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poolingmyignorance 2,191 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Share Posted May 10, 2013 find a shop with a drill press and titanium bits.. ur not gunna drill.out a snapped drill.bit with another standard drill bit. or you can have a welder weld the bullet guide on... good penetration.is key. your last option.. imo would be to drill 2 new holes im the bullet guide and recess them and then drill the trunion with the new hole areaNot titanium, solid carbide. True. Titanium tipped and coated ones i got at lowes worked fine for a snapped drill bit. Carbide would make fast clean work of the snapped bit Carbide is what is used to cut the taps from blanks. It's not cheap, and if you find a way to chip the edge of the drill bit you'll have hell finding something hard enough to sharpen it... but it will cut through hardened steel like a knife through butter. Green wheel for a bench grinder. They are pretty cheap and easy to find. I sharpen carbide bits for my lathe all the time. I've got those, I use them to sharpen tungsten on. The tungsten really eats them up.. I was afraid to try carbide, good to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
irishrifleman 4 Posted May 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2013 HELLS BELLS!!!!! After like 16 bits I made it through the bubbed crap!!!!! Hole completely thru, the tapping is a bitch though. So I got the BG on, ant took it to the hill side to test......first rounds through since I changed the gas block, and the fsb. only pinned on in the gas block, and none in the fsb, attached muzzle brake and I ran rounds!!!!!!!! OMG it ran flawlessly!!!!! No issues with the break, the gas block is totally on where it needs to be, and function was perfect!!!! AND the gb I got was vented, and the tube was vented too, and the cyclic rate was perfect. its holy lookin, but it works perfect. My first date with Yekaterina was awsome!!!!! now to get fsb drilled and pinned. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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