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Vepr Super 308 top scope mount model - locking lever coming loose from

vepr super 308 mount recoil

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#1 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:45 AM

recoil.

 

Hey, guys. I took my Super out to get sighted in with a scope for the first time today. As I mentioned in the topic, it's the top mount version. I had modified the lock/release lever on the mount by bending it away from the gun, in order to make it clear a 40 mm scope objective. 

It took me less that 10 rounds to get a pretty good zero at 25 yards. However, I had began to notice a problem: after a few shots, the locking lever would end up about 15 degrees up from the "locked" position. This didn't make much of a difference from a short range, but when I moved up to 100 yards, I saw a problematic pattern: I would shoot a nice, 1-1.5 inch three round group, but the next shot would be a few inches away from that group, the shot after that would be right next to that one, the subsequent shot would be a few more inches off, etc. Basically, the POI seemed to correspond to the movement of the mount locking lever, which would begin to move up after the first few shots and continue to loosen up with the subsequent ones. 

 

This was rather frustrating and agitating. After getting back from the range, I began to do some research on this matter. I came upon this review on the Vepr Super top mount on Kalinka Optics (http://kalinkaoptics...ct/list/id/693/):

 

"Having used one of these hunting and target shooting mounted on my .308 for many years, I love this mount. I use a 54MM objective for light-gathering purposes, so the quick release is not used. Once I get a scope zeroed in, I lock-tite everything anyway. The quick release would work itself loose at first and touch my scope. Had to have it as tight as could be and lock it down. After that, it was years of service with no problems. This mount enables a perfectly centered scope over the Super Vepr, and I am a perfectionist. The cover must be made to accept the mount, so make sure before you buy. Between the scope, the mount, and the SV: you simply must be off target to miss."

 

As far as I understand, this guy's mount also comes loose, but he bypasses the quick-release lever altogether and loc-tites the screws in place. This seems like PITA to me. I like the quick release - being able to remove the scope and clean the gun, without having to worry about lining everything up and loc-titing it back together. 

 

If the lock and release lever on these mounts generally tends to work itself loose, I think that it's a serious design flaw, which makes me question my purchase of this Vepr Super 308. Have any of you guys with the top scope mount model of the Super 308 experienced the same problem (or not)? Am I missing something here? Any thoughts or input on this would be appreciated. Thanks for reading.

 

UPDATE:

 

I read the Russian Vepr Super manual today. It tells you to make sure that the screw on the left side of the mount is tightened all the way before you shoot. My screw was pretty loose. I went ahead an tightened it as far as it will go. I am hoping that this will fix the problem, but I am not too hopeful. I get the feeling that the lever will still work itself loose, but it will just take more shots now. I don't know... we'll see. 


Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 11 May 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#2 Dracozny

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 09:02 PM

I didn't have any issues with mine working loose, I put 60 rounds down range in one session without any hiccups. One thing to point out, like the guy in the review, my Objective is very large, as a result I have to crank it down, loosen nut and move the lever upward, tighten, crank down, etc.. its a royal PITA. the upside its nice when its in place down side not easy to remove and replace when you need to get under the cover. I still have the idea of modifying a quick release for a bike seat. eventually I will get to it, working on some other projects atm like making my own version of a laminate stock.



#3 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 12:51 AM

I didn't have any issues with mine working loose, I put 60 rounds down range in one session without any hiccups. One thing to point out, like the guy in the review, my Objective is very large, as a result I have to crank it down, loosen nut and move the lever upward, tighten, crank down, etc.. its a royal PITA. the upside its nice when its in place down side not easy to remove and replace when you need to get under the cover. I still have the idea of modifying a quick release for a bike seat. eventually I will get to it, working on some other projects atm like making my own version of a laminate stock.

 

The way that you do this, do you keep your zero when removing and reinstalling the mount for cleanings? I wonder if I get movement from recoil because I bent my lever to clear the scope objective and it now doesn't neatly tuck in between the barrel and the stock and instead, just sticks out to the side. I was going to cut a chunk off, to make it stick out less. I also have another new, unmodified mount. I might try things your way, though I really like to have that quick-release option. It seems like the Russians designed this mount to properly work only with small optics, such as red dots and compact, low-magnification scopes. It kind of sucks. :( They could've come up with a better system.



#4 hilljack

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:59 PM

Have an older VS with top scope mount.  It does not loosen up while firing.  Yes, the lever is not the easiest to use.  Like Dracozny said, dis-engauge / re-engauge the teeth to get it tight.  If the mount is not locked down tight, you can loosen the knob on the lever and use a flat blade screw driver to tighten/loosen the mount. This saves a lot of messing around, moving the lever 1/16th of a turn.



#5 Dracozny

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 07:49 PM

 

I didn't have any issues with mine working loose, I put 60 rounds down range in one session without any hiccups. One thing to point out, like the guy in the review, my Objective is very large, as a result I have to crank it down, loosen nut and move the lever upward, tighten, crank down, etc.. its a royal PITA. the upside its nice when its in place down side not easy to remove and replace when you need to get under the cover. I still have the idea of modifying a quick release for a bike seat. eventually I will get to it, working on some other projects atm like making my own version of a laminate stock.

 

The way that you do this, do you keep your zero when removing and reinstalling the mount for cleanings? I wonder if I get movement from recoil because I bent my lever to clear the scope objective and it now doesn't neatly tuck in between the barrel and the stock and instead, just sticks out to the side. I was going to cut a chunk off, to make it stick out less. I also have another new, unmodified mount. I might try things your way, though I really like to have that quick-release option. It seems like the Russians designed this mount to properly work only with small optics, such as red dots and compact, low-magnification scopes. It kind of sucks. sad.png They could've come up with a better system.

 

as far as I can tell I have not lost zero, its just a PITA. in fact they did design it for smaller optics, I think they intended for an objective no larger than a few mm shy of what your using.



#6 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:00 PM

I've spent a lot of time searching and browsing guns.ru (the biggest Russian gun forum) and other Russian forums, reading about the Vepr Super, which they lovingly call the "Super-Swine" (Vepr means "wild boar" in Russian) and other fun variations of thereof. This is the main (biggest) Vepr Super owners discussion thread:

 

http://forum.guns.ru...sage/56/11.html

 

The general consensus is that the Molot top mount is a POS/PITA and a lot of these guys had just given up on trying to use mag optics with this rifle, and when hunting, compensate for the lack of aiming precision with rapid fire, doing crap like unloading on a tightly packed herd of deer from 450 yards. They also use .308 to hunt birds like geese and grouse. LOL. A lot of their hunting ethics (or a lack of thereof) are very questionable to me. 

Any way, in 2009, a guy named Tarenkov, who goes by ShOOter59 on guns.ru, came up with this custom steel mount: 

http://forum.guns.ru.../54/485382.html

It's designed to tightly and securely affix to the rear sight base and not to interfere with removing the dust cover, field-stripping and cleaning the weapon. The general consensus is that this is the best scope mounting option available. Unfortunately, this Tarenkov guy runs a pretty small shop and is back-logged with orders a year ahead or so. Thought I'd share...

 

EDIT: Some mods that a guy did to the Molot mount, to make it keep zero after removal and re-installation:

 

http://forum.guns.ru...2/128346-2.html

 

He welded something onto the bottom of the mount and also moved the locking lever to the left, which apparently you can do.


Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 14 May 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#7 Dracozny

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:00 PM

yea to move the lever to the left, use a screw driver to remove the screw from the other side. then it should slide right out from the tooth side. I tried this out myself, but for a large optic I do not see any benefit. 

 

looking at the modified top mount (which I could have sworn Kalinka sold that version as well.) my scope I think would barely clear it. I really hate the finish Kalinka put on their mounts, every time I look at that thing more flakes off....

the welding job looks like he just cut a piece of bar stock to fit the hole and then machined a groove in the middle to match the groove of the mount and facilitate clearance for the piston guide. the hole is about 27/64" deep, 1 8/64" wide 43/64" long. the channel/groove is aprox .35" deep. I'm not a big fan of the way that is intended to stabilize the mount however. 


Edited by Dracozny, 14 May 2013 - 09:04 PM.


#8 zagumennyyilya

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:11 PM

looks like it doesn't matter, side mount, top mount, these rifles have mount issues.... sucks nobody makes good mounts here in the USA,  there is no way anybody is gonna ship anything from good old Russia for us.



#9 Dracozny

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:18 PM

looks like it doesn't matter, side mount, top mount, these rifles have mount issues.... sucks nobody makes good mounts here in the USA,  there is no way anybody is gonna ship anything from good old Russia for us.

I think the top mount has potential. I haven't noticed a loss in zero just a pita to mount and remove. really a better lever that folds out of the way should resolve this issue entirely.



#10 Dracozny

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 10:23 PM

I've spent a lot of time searching and browsing guns.ru (the biggest Russian gun forum) and other Russian forums, reading about the Vepr Super, which they lovingly call the "Super-Swine" (Vepr means "wild boar" in Russian) and other fun variations of thereof. This is the main (biggest) Vepr Super owners discussion thread:

 

http://forum.guns.ru...sage/56/11.html

 

The general consensus is that the Molot top mount is a POS/PITA and a lot of these guys had just given up on trying to use mag optics with this rifle, and when hunting, compensate for the lack of aiming precision with rapid fire, doing crap like unloading on a tightly packed herd of deer from 450 yards. They also use .308 to hunt birds like geese and grouse. LOL. A lot of their hunting ethics (or a lack of thereof) are very questionable to me. 

Any way, in 2009, a guy named Tarenkov, who goes by ShOOter59 on guns.ru, came up with this custom steel mount: 

http://forum.guns.ru.../54/485382.html

It's designed to tightly and securely affix to the rear sight base and not to interfere with removing the dust cover, field-stripping and cleaning the weapon. The general consensus is that this is the best scope mounting option available. Unfortunately, this Tarenkov guy runs a pretty small shop and is back-logged with orders a year ahead or so. Thought I'd share...

 

 

http://www.germangun...olAMont9902.jpg

I knew I saw this before, according to this German site it was designed for the Supers up until 2000. question is why?



#11 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 11:04 PM

 

I've spent a lot of time searching and browsing guns.ru (the biggest Russian gun forum) and other Russian forums, reading about the Vepr Super, which they lovingly call the "Super-Swine" (Vepr means "wild boar" in Russian) and other fun variations of thereof. This is the main (biggest) Vepr Super owners discussion thread:

 

http://forum.guns.ru...sage/56/11.html

 

The general consensus is that the Molot top mount is a POS/PITA and a lot of these guys had just given up on trying to use mag optics with this rifle, and when hunting, compensate for the lack of aiming precision with rapid fire, doing crap like unloading on a tightly packed herd of deer from 450 yards. They also use .308 to hunt birds like geese and grouse. LOL. A lot of their hunting ethics (or a lack of thereof) are very questionable to me. 

Any way, in 2009, a guy named Tarenkov, who goes by ShOOter59 on guns.ru, came up with this custom steel mount: 

http://forum.guns.ru.../54/485382.html

It's designed to tightly and securely affix to the rear sight base and not to interfere with removing the dust cover, field-stripping and cleaning the weapon. The general consensus is that this is the best scope mounting option available. Unfortunately, this Tarenkov guy runs a pretty small shop and is back-logged with orders a year ahead or so. Thought I'd share...

 

 

http://www.germangun...olAMont9902.jpg

I knew I saw this before, according to this German site it was designed for the Supers up until 2000. question is why?

 

I believe that this old style mount didn't hold in place so well, so they came up with the current three point attachment style. The Tarenkov mount apparently stays in place and is made out of steel too.


Edited by SpetsnazGRU, 14 May 2013 - 11:07 PM.


#12 SpetsnazGRU

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:37 PM

looks like it doesn't matter, side mount, top mount, these rifles have mount issues.... sucks nobody makes good mounts here in the USA,  there is no way anybody is gonna ship anything from good old Russia for us.

 

I've had good experience with orders from Russia and Belarus before. I am fluent in Russian. I might just contact that Tarenkov guy and inquire if he would be willing to ship his mount to the US, how much, etc. He's not quite as backed up on orders/production as I initially thought... the wait looks to be around 1-2 months for most people.



#13 oldscooterguy

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 12:37 AM

 

looks like it doesn't matter, side mount, top mount, these rifles have mount issues.... sucks nobody makes good mounts here in the USA,  there is no way anybody is gonna ship anything from good old Russia for us.

 

I've had good experience with orders from Russia and Belarus before. I am fluent in Russian. I might just contact that Tarenkov guy and inquire if he would be willing to ship his mount to the US, how much, etc. He's not quite as backed up on orders/production as I initially thought... the wait looks to be around 1-2 months for most people.

 

Any luck getting in touch with him?



#14 Dracozny

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 01:15 AM

after reading the forum that is named after our rifles and looking at photos I did the change of moving the lever over to the left side where the lever is pointing toward the shooter. it did make sense to me but with fiddling with mine I had to move my scope rings back one notch, amazingly it cleared the scope, the down side is to get it to lock down and not have the whole thing wiggle I have to press the lever all the way down until it hits the  top cover. it shouldn't jiggle lose though. although I fear I may have changed too many variables at once for my planned trip to the range tomorrow..

2013-07-17%2023.11.39.jpg






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