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lx2008

legion usa saiga

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hi guys, new member here. always wanted to buy a saiga 12 but just never had, until a couple of days ago.

bought one from legion usa. its a 433a 030 model with the magwell and self-regulating gas sys. may have

made a mistake now that i have done more research. when i bought it,( don`t even have it yet, still in ups

sys. on way to my ffl) the guy said there were no more 8 rd mags so he was sending me a 4 rd. and when

he receives the 8`s, he`ll send me one. that got me thinking. are the mags i need for the 030 magwell model

readily available? so i started looking and not comming up with much. and one of the BIGGEST reasons for

getting a saiga 12 was the 20rd drums! i find out now that the pro-mag 20 rounders that i see a lot of won`t work.

 

was told i have to find a russian made one and may have to pay upwards of 2-300 dollars for one if i can find one.

 

so here`s my question, can any of you lead me to a dealer or manufacturer of the regular 8-10 round mags

that are very reliable with most brands of shells( even the wal-mart type)

that will fit this particular magwelled version, and, any place where i may come up with a drum for this model.

 

thanks a bunch if anybody can help me out here!!!

 

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I don't have your answer, but want to welcome you to the forum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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until a couple of days ago. bought one from legion usa. its a 433a 030 model with the magwel...

 

so here`s my question, can any of you lead me to a dealer or manufacturer of the regular 8-10 round mags

that are very reliable with most brands of shells( even the wal-mart type) that will fit this particular magwelled version, and, any place where i may come up with a drum for this model.

 

 

 

The only magazines that work with the 433a are the original Russian 8 rounders which are currently only available from Legion USA. Yes right now they are out of stock but be patient as they mentioned they will be getting more in shortly (I took that as within a few weeks).

 

The only drum that will work with a magwell is Maxwell's Powermag which can only be ordered from overseas. It'll run you about $600 depending on where you get it.

 

This forums E-store has S12 magwell mags (SGM's) in stock right now.

 

DO NOT BUY SGM MAGAZINES AS THEY WILL NOT WORK WITH THIS MODEL...

Edited by HighPlainsDrifter

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SGM mags listed for factory magwell guns will not work in a factory magwell S12?

 

I'm not talking about Vepr12 mags FYI.

Edited by Mullet Man

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SGM mags listed for factory magwell guns will not work in a factory magwell S12?

 

I'm not talking about Vepr12 mags FYI.

 

SGM magwell magazines models SGMT1212L and SGMT1210L will not work with Legion USA's 433a. Apparently Legion made changes to they way they convert this model after SGM designed and produced the magazines. The e-store has a disclaimer on their website that states...

 

 

These magazines will NOT function in model IZ-433A that has a pistol grip installed by LEGION.

These magazines are manufactured in the US and count as 3 US made, 922R compliant, parts,

therefore, accordingly marked "Made In The USA".

 

 

Now if you have a factory 433 apparently they work. Personally I don't get it but the problem has been documented by members of this forum.

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Damn no shit, good catch. Sucks for dude. Still wouldn't think it'd be all that hard to make them work.

 

OP, I might be up for a trade for my S12 with a lot of work, 2 drums and like 9-10 box mags.....Where you located?

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Here we go again...

 

Izhmash magwell mags will work.

 

Molot Vepr 12 mags will work but you MAY have to fit them to the gun. Simply file the rear lug a slight bit.

 

SGM Tactical Vepr 12 mags work fine in mine but others have had issues.

 

The Vepr 12 has a slightly shorter mag latch. So, you might have to fit the Vepr mags. Mine work the IZ-433 LRBHO without issue.

 

On the drums, the Promag and MDA won't work with a magwell. The Powermag650 will work but they are expensive.

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Who here has the 433A and been able to use the SGM magazines? Anyone?

 

Here's my guess, there is absolutely no difference in the LRBHO between the 433 and 433A. I'm betting the only reason that the 433A is listed as not working with the SGMT mags is that to insert a 10 or 12 rd mag in a 433 would be illegal due to 922r. But, along these lines, why isn't the 412A listed?

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I know, it's so confusing. Now that Legion USA is a vendor on the forum I hope we get some answers.

 

Legion USA has been a vendor here for over a year.

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thanks guys for the info. from what i am to read here is that the SGM mags will work. is that right?

also, thanks for the russian drum info.

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thanks guys for the info. from what i am to read here is that the SGM mags will work. is that right?

also, thanks for the russian drum info.

You're gonna get both yes and no answers depending on who you ask. I will say yes, the SGM Vepr 12 mags will work. Others will say no. Others will say buy the SGM 030 mags (no longer made). Some will say to steer clear of SGM altogether.

 

SGM will not say that they work in the Izzy guns as they did not test them in the Izzy guns, only in the Vepr. The Russians will attest that both manufacturers designed the guns to work with either factory's magazine. So, it stands to reason that the SGM mags will work in both platforms, right? SGM has stated here that they first designed their 030 mag with a Legion gun but then they talked about the LRBHO changing. No one seems to know what this means exactly.

 

What i do know is that I have a pile of SGM Vepr 12 mags that work just fine in my IZ433 and IZ412. Actually, as I stated above, Molot V12 mags, Saiga magwell (police) mags and SGMT Vepr 12 mags all work in all my guns (V12, 412, 433).

 

YMMV

 

bc0a7e20a16cbe31913974aa87315dd2_zps2cb8

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thanks guys for the info. from what i am to read here is that the SGM mags will work. is that right?

also, thanks for the russian drum info.

You're gonna get both yes and no answers depending on who you ask. I will say yes, the SGM Vepr 12 mags will work. Others will say no. Others will say buy the SGM 030 mags (no longer made). Some will say to steer clear of SGM altogether.

 

SGM will not say that they work in the Izzy guns as they did not test them in the Izzy guns, only in the Vepr. The Russians will attest that both manufacturers designed the guns to work with either factory's magazine. So, it stands to reason that the SGM mags will work in both platforms, right? SGM has stated here that they first designed their 030 mag with a Legion gun but then they talked about the LRBHO changing. No one seems to know what this means exactly.

 

What i do know is that I have a pile of SGM Vepr 12 mags that work just fine in my IZ433 and IZ412. Actually, as I stated above, Molot V12 mags, Saiga magwell (police) mags and SGMT Vepr 12 mags all work in all my guns (V12, 412, 433).

 

YMMV

 

bc0a7e20a16cbe31913974aa87315dd2_zps2cb8

 

i thank you you for your honesty. the only thing i can do is just try some. so ok.... where is the best place or places to buy these?

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Legion USA for Izzy mags, when available. KVAR for Izzy mags but they are more expensive. Molot USA for Molot Vepr 12 mags. Whenever possible, I give as much of my paycheck as I can afford to Greg at Crolina Shooters Supply;-) He carries SGM Tactical's products and gives breaks to forum members ("CSS" is the code).

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Like I stated before, this forums e-store also has them in stock. Vepr SGM mags and Saiga SGM magwell mags.

CSS is also a top notch place to shop.

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thanks again guys for your input! very nice forum. will enjoy it a lot.

 

also, sunnybean, anymore avatars like that!!! LOL

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thanks again guys for your input! very nice forum. will enjoy it a lot.

 

also, sunnybean, anymore avatars like that!!! LOL

 

Wait a minute. Did you end up placing an order? If you went with the SGM magazines please come back and share your experience. It's pass time to put this debate to bed.

Edited by HighPlainsDrifter

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nope. did not order anything yet except the saiga 433a. just asking questions about the

availabilty of mags for it.

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If you order the SGM magazines I would say order one at a time to check. I messed up and ordered 4 for the 433 and they had issues with the LRBHO and my VEPR magazine wouldn't seat properly. I hope you have better luck.

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This is disheartening to me as I have a factory IZ-433 not the A version at least. To hear this about magazines and drums. UGH! I got a great deal on mine too at $729.00

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UPDATE TO SGM MAGS FITTING INTO LEGION MAGWELL:

 

I bought some SGM tactical mags( 10 rounders) for the magwell version of the saiga12( mine is a legion 433a)

i`m here to report that they WILL work in the legion magwell!

 

what i did to the lrbho was to heat it up with a mini butane torch and bend it down slightly and a tad to the left

so the bho will clear the the rim of the shells. this was the problem with the sgm`s as the bho would get hung up

on the rim of most of the shells i tried. i just shot over 75 of different brands of shells, high and low brass, 1250 fps

to 1600 fps with not one hang up!!!! hope this will clear this up on the sgm mags for the magwell versions.

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For what it's worth, SGM has said that Legion had varried fitment dimensions, thus some of their mags will work with some guns and not others. They initially made separate mags for legion guns, then legion basically became compatable with vepr spec.

 

I know, if it was me, that magwell/lrbho combo is better than the drums.

 

I'd just get whatever SGM mags seemed like a good shot of working and mod them a bit with a soldering iron, alcohol and donor plastic until they worked right.

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Legion USA for Izzy mags, when available. KVAR for Izzy mags but they are more expensive. Molot USA for Molot Vepr 12 mags. Whenever possible, I give as much of my paycheck as I can afford to Greg at Crolina Shooters Supply;-) He carries SGM Tactical's products and gives breaks to forum members ("CSS" is the code).

Greg is good people! Most of my Saiga money mos def goes to him.

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This is disheartening to me as I have a factory IZ-433 not the A version at least. To hear this about magazines and drums. UGH! I got a great deal on mine too at $729.00

maybe one of these days they will show up again and we can have good prices again.... or maybe someone in the grand ole USA will build one that we can screw with.... but slightly more mudular than a saiga....or less modular but more condusive to workin on

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I have the Legion 433 (not the a model).

I bought the SGM 12 rounder from the e-store that was designated for this gun bearing in mind it will not work in the a model. The magazine does not work in this particular Legion. I held the SGM 12 rounder next to the mag that came with the gun and you can see a big difference. Although the SGM will snap into place it sits further back towards the trigger. The LRBHO sits over the shells about a 1/4", way to much to bend out of the way. In doing my research the LRBHO was machined too long and can be tweeked for some models and will work, but not in mine. I removed the LRBHO altogether and it will not cycle. For the SGM mag to work I would have to remove material from the front of the mag and add material to the back. I spoke to SGM and was told that their mags would be a hit or miss in the 433. They made a production run of mags based on one gun sent from Legion. Since then Legion has made some modificactions to the 433 magwell. I also spoke with Greg at CSS about the SGM mag as well as some VEPR mags possibly working. Again, hit or miss. My guess is there is a range of serial numbers for the 433 that the SGM mag will work. My next step is to get with Legion and see what mags will work with my serial number. I also will probaly send one of the factory 4 round mags (yes 4 rounds, it came with three mags) to CSS so he can do a side by side comparison with the Molot and SGM Vepr mags to see if one might work. Other than this issue the Legion 433-030 with the magwell, self regulating gas system and factory mags works flawlessly with any shells that I put in it.

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with a loaded SGM,( for the magwell version) did the lrbho rest on the rim of the shell or just on the other side of the rim?

 

if either of the above are true, it can be bent to work. if though, the tip of the bho was further up on the shell i can see your point.

 

if you read my earlier post, i said how it can be done. you can try tweeking it. it only has to to make contact with the back of the follower.

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