Alaskapopo 20 Posted May 18, 2013 Report Share Posted May 18, 2013 ITs not so much "by name" s it is FEATURES...the DETACHABLE magazine pretty much is what KILLS any Saiga SHOTGUN in NY state... you can go to the website and run through the checklist. If I were to make it a NON detachable magazine shotgun... it can have ALL KINDS of "EVIL" features... and be perfectly LEGAL! You gotta understand ... MOVING IS NOT an option. I LOVE my home... my great grandmother owned this property and generations of my family have grown up in this house. including me. I also DO NOT WANT TO REGISTER ANYTHING... we ALL know where that leads... NO GUNS PERIOD. So no guns PERIOD... or something that is (ahem, wink-wink ) "Permanently rendered to single shot" and therefore exempt... and no longer an "issue"... so to speak. Hopefully after a few month or so, they will realize like Canada did... the ERROR of their ways, and rescind all the bullshit because it just costs WAY TOO DAMN much to try to deal with the logistics of it all... Dogman... I like ya bro... we're good. I think I would rather register it and use it and take the chance. How many NFA guns have been seized or confiscated since registered in the US. None. Its much better than having an expensive single shot that is pretty much worthless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ResponsiveResolve 7 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 Maybe a permanently attached 7-round Magazine......something like a Mosin Nagant? Metal box welded to the receiver. Would you still be able to hand load from the top? And possibly like gunfun said a different receiver? Give Nodak-spud a call....anything is possible. Trade it for a Catamount fluffy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 http://irs.fwsites.org/petition/?source=FWFBIRSTarget http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/04/gun_confiscation_begins_in_new_york.html http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/09/a-form-of-gun-confiscation-has-reportedly-begun-in-new-york-state-heres-the-justification-being-used/ They are already setting up a similar process to califonia for confiscation. The current test bed is being tried. Assuming its sucessful, they will move on to more people... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 (edited) http://irs.fwsites.org/petition/?source=FWFBIRSTarget http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/04/gun_confiscation_begins_in_new_york.html http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/09/a-form-of-gun-confiscation-has-reportedly-begun-in-new-york-state-heres-the-justification-being-used/ They are already setting up a similar process to califonia for confiscation. The current test bed is being tried. Assuming its sucessful, they will move on to more people... I've wondered about all the LE Officers that are taking anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medications due to on-the-job stress...... Certainly NYS is not the best at debriefing it's officers. This entire situation is so flawed and so fucked! Edited May 19, 2013 by Yeoldetool 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 I've wondered about all the LE Officers that are taking anti-anxiety/anti-depressant medications due to on-the-job stress...... Certainly NYS is not the best at debriefing it's officers. This entire situation is so flawed and so fucked! Its a valid question, But it doesn't offer and weight to our argument to those who wouldn't listen in the first place. And yes, Flawed and Fucked are adjectives that properly describe the situation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted May 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 SImply removing a gas puck is NOT a "permanent" solution. Things need to be "welded" to be permanent. As far as why not just get a pump... The point is... its a SAIGA... regardless of whether its got a 20 round drum, or feeds one at a time.... it IS WHAT IT IS... and is worth what it it worth... and as was mentioned earlier as well... who knows what might need to be undone at some future point... nothing short of torch cutting the receiver into several pieces is PERMANENT... and everyone HERE KNOWS that even *THAT* harsh condition can be FIXED with time, technique, and a real NEED to make it so. Perhaps a steel magazine WELDED into the receiver, with a tab sticking through the follower to pull spring tension down, is possible, to allow top loading of up to "7" rounds... (it would load VERY similarly to my GSG5 magazines.) and still not make it a "detachable magazine" and then the only shortcoming is SLOW reloading time... While hunting or at the range... that would be a NON ISSUE... should it come to more serious issues where reloading time is an issue... welds will not longer be an issue... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Syndicate 812 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 picture would be a lot more impactful if the captions didn't cover the focus of it lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 weld a pin into the port in the side of the gas block making it impossible to install the gas puck?(without drilling/grinding) remove the operating rod?(and buy a replacement from tom cole) I could weld a cover on the magazine hole. The problem is the only guide we have to go by is Cuomo saying it shouldn't be able to be undone with tools you can buy from lowes... And a gun could be MADE out of materials from lowes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted May 19, 2013 Report Share Posted May 19, 2013 The British weld their gas ports closed and remove the piston to legally own AK's. Makes it a single shot. You can always re-drill the gas ports and replace the piston at a later date. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ResponsiveResolve 7 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 SImply removing a gas puck is NOT a "permanent" solution. Things need to be "welded" to be permanent. As far as why not just get a pump... The point is... its a SAIGA... regardless of whether its got a 20 round drum, or feeds one at a time.... it IS WHAT IT IS... and is worth what it it worth... and as was mentioned earlier as well... who knows what might need to be undone at some future point... nothing short of torch cutting the receiver into several pieces is PERMANENT... and everyone HERE KNOWS that even *THAT* harsh condition can be FIXED with time, technique, and a real NEED to make it so. Perhaps a steel magazine WELDED into the receiver, with a tab sticking through the follower to pull spring tension down, is possible, to allow top loading of up to "7" rounds... (it would load VERY similarly to my GSG5 magazines.) and still not make it a "detachable magazine" and then the only shortcoming is SLOW reloading time... While hunting or at the range... that would be a NON ISSUE... should it come to more serious issues where reloading time is an issue... welds will not longer be an issue... New York Reload........pull out another S12....lol -Lets say IF you got a new receiver(US made), perm weld a mag to the receiver(7 rounds), sporting config or (no pistol grip)...........would you still have to register your S-12 stripped receiver?..... As it is specifically named....and still is the firearm.......and can accept detachable mags? I looked the website it listed s12 as a common type........and it said the list is not exhaustive.....so the catamount 12 would be on there as well. "A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means." Seems to me you would need a stripper clip, so you could just punch in a re-load if you welded the mag in like a sks. Reading the website made me sick....i was picturing F-stein in my head......sounds like they must of worked together on this. The language is sickening (assault weapons)....lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Thought about banding together and using to protect your right to own it? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Thought about banding together and using to protect your right to own it? Yes. Have you? ETA: Actually I've thought that WAY too many would sit back in "Free" States, instead of joining, saying "Dude,you see that shit going on in NY? That could never happen here." Edited May 21, 2013 by Yeoldetool 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sdustin 578 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 That's pretty much what would proably happen. But in the rual south there a lot of people waiting for a shooting war. I know one thing if there was just 100-500 armed people stand up the state would fold on the S.A.F.E. bullshit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 That's pretty much what would proably happen. But in the rual south there a lot of people waiting to watch for a shooting war. I know one thing if there was just 100-500 armed people stand up the state would fold on the S.A.F.E. bullshit. I fixed that for you. You really have no clue, do you..... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/84415-ny-update/page-3&do=findComment&comment=870300 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dustindu4 101 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 Fucking bullshit that we even have to talk about this stuff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted May 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 I know one thing if there was just 100-500 armed people stand up the state would fold on the S.A.F.E. bullshit. NOPE... they would have EVERY news media outlet SPIN this into a CELL of TERRORISM in the midst of NY... and it had to be wiped out for the protection of the rest of the population.... and twist and corrupt it to make freedom loving, constitution following, PATRIOTS into domestic terrorists because its the way the Gov. works now... Its not THAT easy to just stand up for FREEDOM anymore... ANYWHERE... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 well, the AOW route isnt an option, they werent approved by the state due to weight. as for one shot options, check into the california SLED thing on thier AOWs, however i fear this probably is not an option either. what about finding a steel mag you can modify and weld into the mag well? you wont have lockup issues to worry about solving. as for "them" not knowing you have guns....well, there is this little trick "they" pulled....see the sherriff and the BATF cannot keep records of firearms ownership....true true....heres the catch.....the background check system is a PRIVATE COMPANY (therefore said company is not a law enforcement agency, so guess what they have on file?), and nevermind the dealer FFL records that im sure are going to be gone through when the time comes. I hate to agree with the above mentioned comment, but seeing how the market is insane right now for firearms, why NOT sell it overpriced, and get your funds moved over to other bang sticks. seems like the best option by far to me, really. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ResponsiveResolve 7 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Social Change and the Non-Aggression Principle by Cgreene34 http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZItFMoo9iw0 Options are Power. Edited May 21, 2013 by ResponsiveResolve Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 IM Uninformed O, A private company performing a government records function would probably count as a government actor thus would be held to 5A search and seizure rules, via the Entanglement Doctrine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted May 21, 2013 Report Share Posted May 21, 2013 (edited) Other than feeling sorry for your situation, the best compromise I could come up with would be to weld the gas port closed and make a pump handle via PAR1/PAR3 AK designs. I've never given any thought to a fixed mag, but if they make a S12 bullet button design for Cali it has to be doable. What a bitch.... Edited May 22, 2013 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 From NY Dicktater's... Ahem... Governor's website Q: If I modify my gun by removing all design characteristics that makes it an assault weapon, do I have to register it? A: No. If you modify your gun so that it is not an assault weapon, you do not have to register it. The modification must be permanent however. This includes, for example, removing the bayonet lug by cutting or grinding, grinding off the threads on the barrel, removing the foregrip so that it cannot be readily reattached, or any change that cannot be reversed through reasonable means. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted May 22, 2013 Report Share Posted May 22, 2013 None of the below should be used as legal advice. I would take that to mean that a plug in the gas block would probably be enough, just something not easily accessed. Not something that could be fixed back in a few minutes. Possible mod: Remove gas block, thread gas block channel. Install threaded plug with fastener head facing toward barrel. reinstall gas block. Hell of a lot more reversible (and also more permanent) then a mag mod... Later down the road you could possibly convert back to semi once a better planned mag solution comes along. None of the above should be used as legal advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I wouldnt test them unless you want to be a poster child right now..... the first case is being handled personally by the state attourney general's office. I love NY, I miss home, but I wont return there. "sell high, buy low" go make some dollars, friends, use it to your advantage right now Edited May 23, 2013 by Ben Vampatella Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 I wouldnt test them unless you want to be a poster child right now..... the first case is being handled personally by the state attourney general's office. I love NY, I miss home, but I wont return there. "sell high, buy low" go make some dollars, friends, use it to your advantage right now I know you mean that with all good intentions, but selling my guns is not going to happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
4x4Blazer 3 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 There is nothing in the law that bans Saigas or any other firearm by name. It's all about features that the firearm has. I to am dealing with the Bullshit King Cuomo has forced down our throats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Im with you guys, ya know. we have BATF here right now local to me over 24 packs being cut in half and not taxed properly..... Im wit you. I see a few folks already in this thr4ead that I have dealt with professionally. I feel bad. what can i do? i can tae your guns into my house, but what good will that do? what do you want me to do guys? I will do whatever i can legally,m to help you. but there isnt much i CAN do. oh yeh, i DIDNT run...... Edited May 23, 2013 by Ben Vampatella Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 I cant do much from here. I am not admitting defeat.... I am just saying that blah blah blah blah I wouldnt test them unless you want to be a poster child right now..... the first case is being handled personally by the state attourney general's office. I love NY, I miss home, but I wont return there. "sell high, buy low" go make some dollars, friends, use it to your advantage right now I know you mean that with all good intentions, but selling my guns is not going to happen. wellt so then what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) There is nothing in the law that bans Saigas or any other firearm by name. It's all about features that the firearm has. I to am dealing with the Bullshit King Cuomo has forced down our throats. Can you explain this?....... http://www.governor.ny.gov/assets/documents/RiflesthatAREclassifiedasassaultweapons.pdf Note that I have read the Penal Law and no guns are listed in the penal law by name. They are, however, listed in the SAFE Act. "Saiga" is not listed, but "Izhevsk Factory ‐ Russia" is. Edited May 23, 2013 by Yeoldetool Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 I will try to. it appears to be an NFA act, from NY. not good I have noticed that one particular importer is excluded thats not good. what the hell are you dealing with back home? communists? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted May 23, 2013 Report Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I will try to. it appears to be an NFA act, from NY. not good I have noticed that one particular importer is excluded thats not good. what the hell are you dealing with back home? communists? It is as faulty as the way it was enacted and you need to read the law weekly, as it is changed at least that often. Here is the law: http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=@PLPEN0P3TPA265+&LIST=SEA2+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=33450939+&TARGET=VIEW And here is the SAFE Act website from Coumo's office.: http://www.governor.ny.gov/nysafeact/gun-reform Edited May 23, 2013 by Yeoldetool Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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