.380 Ammo

[jerry52 893]

YES YOU DO! YES YOU DO.

[mancat 2,368]

Why would you carry FMJ? You need HPs in a .380.

 

Depends on who you ask. Some people think you should carry FMJ for max penetration, under the assumption that .380 HP won't expand enough. Others believe the opposite. Some people even load both into the same mag.

[gunfun 3,931]

.380???? Just give her a sing-shot to use in the mean time. Just as good.

 

 

and others who think 22lr is a better choice, or that 380 is worthless.

 

Your ballistic information is about 8 years out of date then. good .380 loads can do as well as standard 9mm JHP would do in the mid 90s. Decent hollow points will do 12 -13" of penetration and make a 3-4" .75" -1" dameter stretch cavity. Sure there are better rounds out there, but not in so compact a package, and 22 rimfire only can match the penetration numbers at best. It is still a smaller hole and there is not as much energy.

Of ammo that can be found commonly, the hornady critical duty is probably the best choice. There may be others that edge it out in performance, but that one does OK and I see it in stores. Plus it feeds well.

 

For what it's worth, I've started a load worked up with semi soft cast Lee 358 105 SWC that drops at 110 grains. It seems to run well so far in an LCP. (sized to .357". I plan to get an FCD to use lightly just to uniform crimp and shell profile a bit more to further guarantee feeding, but not so much as to swage the bullet smaller.) I think this may perform better than FMJ in terminal ballistics, becasue SWC proflile, heavier, and softer lead can expand. If you think FMJ is the way to go, you might look at something like this instead.

[jdub23 21]

I have a .380, and while it's absolutely inferior to 9mm, there's no way in HELL I'd opt for a .22lr.

I agree, I have a .380 kel Tec I carry during the summer. I wish I had a better way to carry the other ones...

 

Yeah, 22LR over .380 Noooooo. Everybody has a story of someone getting shot by a caliber less than a .45 ACP and living "whatever.." Well I have one too. In the 9th grade I noticed this kid in the seat behind me looking at a little pink hole in his left upper chest. I asked him what happened, he said Derrick came over my house and shot me wit a .22 man... Know a couple other guys walking around with .22 LR in there fat from accidents when we were kids.

 

.22 mag still gonna say no... Boxoftruth says .380 FMJ will give you the most affective penetration. The JHP hardly expanded in there tests.

Edited May 29, 2013 by jdub23

[Marc 147]

 

Why would you carry FMJ? You need HPs in a .380.

 

Depends on who you ask. Some people think you should carry FMJ for max penetration, under the assumption that .380 HP won't expand enough. Others believe the opposite. Some people even load both into the same mag.

 

 

The round in the chamber is a Buffalo Bore Gold Dot, rest of the mag is FMJ.

[BigChongus 765]

I stagger my mag to cover my bases. Every other round is FMJ and HP.

[theorangeplanet 968]

 

Yeah, 22LR over .380 Noooooo. Everybody has a story of someone getting shot by a caliber less than a .45 ACP and living "whatever.."

 

 

Here's a story about a guy getting hit 14 times with .45 ACP (with six rounds in the 'zone') and still putting up a serious fight. Took some well-placed shots to the noggin to take him out.

 

http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

 

Moral of the story: All pistols suck. But yes, I would definitely take a .380 ACP over a .22LR.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Risky

[gunfun 3,931]

Which is why I am a fan of 22-27 .240" projectiles moving at ~1400 FPS.

 

So the bigger moral is that all pistols suck compared to long arms, most anything over 9mm will do the hob with decent ammo, and any gun is better than no gun.

 

Keeping things on topic...

 

Overpenetration with both common styles of FMJ. Obvious point about chance of hitting bone, and 2 layers of skin. (skin makes resistance equal to aprox 4" of calibrated ballistic gel...) -Takeaway: even in .380 you still want some controlled expansion. Probably just less expansion. You don't have a lot of power here to waste, and that excessive penetration is energy that is not being transferred to tissue damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkscBbMGp5k

 

Hornady Critical defense does 11.25" with a bigish hole for what it is. I'd call that just acceptable and superior to .22. Moreover, while the max penetration doesn't meet the arbitrary 12" rule, it does transfer all the energy to the target, so it is doing more damage than the FMJ, by a lot, and with less risk to others. (since I think of 380 as a gun that is likely to be used in public such as crowds or resturants, and it is hard to aim, over penetration is worse than just wasted power.) Typically the critical duty line is a little heavier with a little less expansion, and a little more penetration. If avaliable, that would be my .380 carry load at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-H9M6cZGd18

 

 

Hydrashock 90 grn: 10.5" - Takeaway? Probably better choice than WWB, but not the best choice in this round. At least the cavity didn't plug as can happen in other rounds of this type. If they used a slightly harder internal alloy they could probably get a little less expansion and more penetration, which would make a better load than they did.

 

Speer Glod Dot 90grn: 10.25" with a little nicer stretch cavity than hydrashock. Looks like coke and pepsi to me between those two.

 

Rem Golden Sabre 102 grn: plugged with cloth and acted like a pricey JHP... A a lot of 90s designed bullets do very well in bare gel or water but don't do so well with cloth.

 

 

Win PDX: 8.25" with a bigger cavity than most, but still only 8.25"... Maybe a good round for shooting racoons in the chicken coop, but not ideal for bigger intruders.

 

 

Win Ranger T 95 Grn. 8" only. Made a big ugly short hole. I had higher hopes for this round.

 

 

 

That buffalo bore referenced above might be a good choice for power, but I haven't seen any data on it. Having slugged the barrel on an LCP, I saw how amazingly thin that barrel is. I wouldn't be very comfortable running anything near +P ammo in one. Maybe a bersa or a walther 380 has some more meat on the barrel, or if you are hosing them out of a MAC...

 

I'd also like to see some serious testing of whatever Cor-Bon has in the DPX line.(A moot point since I have never found DPX in any store. )

Edited May 29, 2013 by GunFun

[gunfun 3,931]

Another interesting vid

[netpackrat 566]

I carry Hydrashoks in both of my .380s, always have probably always will. It's totally reliable, which is even more important than subtle differences in penetration vs. expansion between the various rounds. Years ago, I tried the high zoot JHP loads from Cor-bon, and was rewarded with lots of failures to fire; rounds that would need a second primer strike to go off. This was in a Sig P230, which is the gold standard of .380s. I haven't bought a single round of Corbon's crap ammo since then.

[YOT 3,743]

That has been my experience with PPU. HARD primers make for undependable fire!

[Kraken12 12]

Bought 2 boxes of the Winchester White Box, 100 rd value pack, Sunday @ Wally World for $35/box, that is about as good as it gets for .380. And yes my wife has a Walther PK .380 for her CCW, and she loves it. As far as the .380's stopping power, I told the wife to just keep shooting until they fall down!

 

BTW, also while at Wally World, I bought some "Estate" 12 GA. 00 buck, 25 rounds for 20.75, made in France, anyone have any experiences with this ammo?

Thanks,

K12

[gunfun 3,931]

I carry Hydrashoks in both of my .380s, always have probably always will. It's totally reliable, which is even more important than subtle differences in penetration vs. expansion between the various rounds. Years ago, I tried the high zoot JHP loads from Cor-bon, and was rewarded with lots of failures to fire; rounds that would need a second primer strike to go off. This was in a Sig P230, which is the gold standard of .380s. I haven't bought a single round of Corbon's crap ammo since then.

 

good to know, but the time I got to try a P230, it was very ammo picky, and hickupped with the same ammo that was running nicely in a $300 ruger. Buffalo Bore uses Barnes bullets in some of their loads, but they are the ones you can buy as components, not the fancy exclusive DPX bullets Barnes makes for Cor-Bon. Barnes sells the bullets for pretty close to the same price as loaded rounds from buffalo bore, so ...

[mancat 2,368]

That has been my experience with PPU. HARD primers make for undependable fire!

 

Not with some guns. e.g. a CZ-83 would probably smash through harder military-style primers with ease.

[YOT 3,743]

 

That has been my experience with PPU. HARD primers make for undependable fire!

 

Not with some guns. e.g. a CZ-83 would probably smash through harder military-style primers with ease.

 

 

I know you didn't mean to imply that I was talking about other's experiences. I was only speaking of my own. I have had three .380's. PPU has hard primers. These were shot with my S&W Bodyguard .380. Four different ammos.

[jerry52 893]

Have you had misfires with PPU?, looks like the one in the picture went boom. Did you have to trigger it a few times?

[YOT 3,743]

Many of them took 2 or 3 strikes. The good thing about that is not knowing when it will fire helps develop accuracy. I was hitting the 3" steel gong 9/10 from 25 yards with the PPU. Recoil is lighter with the PPU comparatively, too.

[breid1970 327]

RBCD ammo? Anyone?

[netpackrat 566]

good to know, but the time I got to try a P230, it was very ammo picky, and hickupped with the same ammo that was running nicely in a $300 ruger. Buffalo Bore uses Barnes bullets in some of their loads, but they are the ones you can buy as components, not the fancy exclusive DPX bullets Barnes makes for Cor-Bon. Barnes sells the bullets for pretty close to the same price as loaded rounds from buffalo bore, so ...

 

 

Other than crappy ammo, the only way I've been able to induce a malfunction in my P230 was through a combination of wearing gloves, and too high a grip. If you have big hands, it's pretty easy to get too high on the grip and cause drag on the bottom of the slide. If you get too high on the grip without gloves... Well, you'll probably only do it once.

[Shandlanos 1,470]

Bought 2 boxes of the Winchester White Box, 100 rd value pack, Sunday @ Wally World for $35/box, that is about as good as it gets for .380. And yes my wife has a Walther PK .380 for her CCW, and she loves it. As far as the .380's stopping power, I told the wife to just keep shooting until they fall down!

 

BTW, also while at Wally World, I bought some "Estate" 12 GA. 00 buck, 25 rounds for 20.75, made in France, anyone have any experiences with this ammo?

Thanks,

K12

Yes. I bought several boxes of it at Cabela's for about $12 each a few years ago. Value-wise, it's great buckshot for breaking in an S-12. It also fits into an MD-20 without a problem.

[jdub23 21]

I think PPU has hard primes JMHO.

 

 

That has been my experience with PPU. HARD primers make for undependable fire!

 

Not with some guns. e.g. a CZ-83 would probably smash through harder military-style primers with ease.

 

 

I know you didn't mean to imply that I was talking about other's experiences. I was only speaking of my own. I have had three .380's. PPU has hard primers. These were shot with my S&W Bodyguard .380. Four different ammos.

 

OH you covered it... I just picked up about 3 boxes of the stuff. PPU is kinda like Monarch I think. It used to be different brands "sometimes steel case" same box marked PPU.

[jerry52 893]

Many of them took 2 or 3 strikes. The good thing about that is not knowing when it will fire helps develop accuracy. I was hitting the 3" steel gong 9/10 from 25 yards with the PPU. Recoil is lighter with the PPU comparatively, too.

Flinch killers , look for the good in everything

[jdub23 21]

 

 

Yeah, 22LR over .380 Noooooo. Everybody has a story of someone getting shot by a caliber less than a .45 ACP and living "whatever.."

 

 

Here's a story about a guy getting hit 14 times with .45 ACP (with six rounds in the 'zone') and still putting up a serious fight. Took some well-placed shots to the noggin to take him out.

 

http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issues/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

 

Moral of the story: All pistols suck. But yes, I would definitely take a .380 ACP over a .22LR.

 

Yeah I treated alot of gunshot patients. Never treated anyone shot with a high powered rifle "they go straight to the morgue." The worst were the selfish assholes that would put a .25 or .380 to their dome and wind up parylized, blind or a vegetable. I say that because 99% seemed to just want attention, obviously had problems.... Awww whatever I was a critical care nurse and jaded as hell....

[Kraken12 12]

 

Bought 2 boxes of the Winchester White Box, 100 rd value pack, Sunday @ Wally World for $35/box, that is about as good as it gets for .380. And yes my wife has a Walther PK .380 for her CCW, and she loves it. As far as the .380's stopping power, I told the wife to just keep shooting until they fall down!

 

BTW, also while at Wally World, I bought some "Estate" 12 GA. 00 buck, 25 rounds for 20.75, made in France, anyone have any experiences with this ammo?

Thanks,

K12

Yes. I bought several boxes of it at Cabela's for about $12 each a few years ago. Value-wise, it's great buckshot for breaking in an S-12. It also fits into an MD-20 without a problem.

 

Shandlanos,

thanks for the feedback, I see that ammo sitting on the shelves at the local Walmart now!

[breid1970 327]

RBCD ammo? Anyone?

nudge...