Shorten Saiga 223 butt stock legally in NY

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

Shorten Saiga 223 butt stock legally in NY...

 

I want to shorten the butt stock of a Saiga 223 rifle. I live in New York State, and we are not allowed collapsible magazines as that is considered one military aspect, and I ready have, as you guys know, a military aspect insofar as a detachable magazine.

 

I like shorter but stocks, as I don't like long rifles, I don't like my left arm being extended out as much; it is uncomfortable to me. (The current "plastic" butt stock is approximately 12 1/2 inches if I measured correctly. And this is a 16 inch barrel Saiga 223 rifle-which is good as his to shortest length barrel available).

 

I have a standard polymer factory Saiga 223 butt stock currently.

 

Any ideas of how to accomplish this while still maintaining compliance with the New York State law?

 

Assuming it is possible, I am not too technically oriented, so I seriously doubt I could do it myself. Bringing it to a gunsmith would almost definitely have to happen. Just by the way, I had called several gunsmiths about modifying the trigger on a Saiga 308 rifle that I have, that many of you know is a peculiar trigger, and many of them said they will not do any work on Saiga rifles for legal reasons, which I found attention-grabbing.

 

Thank you for any help assistance and input

 

 

[YOT 3,743]

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

Thank you, but, right, but if I could get a collapsible stock, as I have with my shotgun, the stock could be much shorter, which is what I want.

So how can I shorten it without going illegal please?

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

don't shorten the buttstock so much that the overall length of the firearm will be shorter then 28 inches. otherwise, you'll have a unregistered short barrel rifle (SBR) which will get in trouble with the feds, as well as the state.

 

Now, if it was me cutting the stock down, I would make sure that I had at least 28.5 inches of OAL, just to be on the safe side.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins

[YOT 3,743]

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

Thank you, but, right, but if I could get a collapsible stock, as I have with my shotgun, the stock could be much shorter, which is what I want.

So how can I shorten it without going illegal please?

 

 

You can start by reading the laws.

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

That is excellent advice, from another "pissed off NY'er."

 

 

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

Thank you, but, right, but if I could get a collapsible stock, as I have with my shotgun, the stock could be much shorter, which is what I want.

So how can I shorten it without going illegal please?

 

 

You can start by reading the laws.

 

Unfortunately I have many times

And every time I do it seems to get worse

 

don't shorten the buttstock so much that the overall length of the firearm will be shorter then 28 inches. otherwise, you'll have a unregistered short barrel rifle (SBR) which will get in trouble with the feds, as well as the state.

 

Now, if it was me cutting the stock down, I would make sure that I had at least 28.5 inches of OAL, just to be on the safe side.

I was fairly certain the overall length had to be 26" under Fed law?

I believe many posters to these threads say same?

[Matthew Hopkins 1,065]

 

 

I was fairly certain the overall length had to be 26" under Fed law?

 

I believe many posters to these threads say same?

 

 

 

 

opps, my "bad", it is 26 inches.

[YOT 3,743]

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

That is excellent advice, from another "pissed off NY'er."

 

 

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

Thank you, but, right, but if I could get a collapsible stock, as I have with my shotgun, the stock could be much shorter, which is what I want.

So how can I shorten it without going illegal please?

 

 

You can start by reading the laws.

 

Unfortunately I have many times

And every time I do it seems to get worse

 

 

And unfortunately you are in the city, so you have city laws to deal with on top of NY laws.

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

 

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

That is excellent advice, from another "pissed off NY'er."

 

 

 

To measure your correct "length of pull" bend your elbow at a 90° angle and measure from the inside of your elbow to the first knuckle crease of your index finger. That is the correct measurement from the trigger to the end of the butt stock, FOR YOU. It would be ill-advised to go shorter than that.

 

There are others who may advise differently. I will not. The information you are looking for is in the laws, both Federal and State.

Thank you, but, right, but if I could get a collapsible stock, as I have with my shotgun, the stock could be much shorter, which is what I want.

So how can I shorten it without going illegal please?

 

 

You can start by reading the laws.

 

Unfortunately I have many times

And every time I do it seems to get worse

 

 

And unfortunately you are in the city, so you have city laws to deal with on top of NY laws.

 

Live both in city with girlfriend, and also on Long island whee the guns are, so city laws do not apply, thank goodness

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

Okay, I have come to the conclusion that the only truly doable manner in which a may shorten both my 223 Saiga rifle in my 308 Saiga rifle is to take off the factory stock plastic polymer stock but and replace them with wooden butt stocks.
The wood stocks would be easier to cut.
The cutting would still probably be done by a gunsmith
I probably can get a gunsmith to do this; as I mentioned many gunsmiths around me do not want to work on anything AK-47 related. If I bring them just the wooden stocks I believe they would work on them, at least I hope so.

Any suggestions on where to get the wooden stocks?
Which are the best wooden stocks?
Since I am not handy, is it realistic that I might be able to take the plastic polymer stocks off of the rifles? And then to put the wooden stocks on?
Do these wooden stocks fit my Saiga rifles? Or do they need to be modified on the end that attaches to the rifles?
Are these wooden stocks going to add weight to my rifles? That would be an issue because I don't like adding weight if I don't have to.

Thank you

[cguiro 29]

Get some wood furniture and make it to the length u want... then get recoil slip on pad to finish

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

Get some wood furniture and make it to the length u want... then get recoil slip on pad to finish

Thank you but way beyond my humble abilities.

Are there wood stocks that one can get for the 223 and 308 that just attach and can be altered in length?

Thanks

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

Question please:
How does adding a USA wood stock exactly affect the 922 federal law in respect my Saiga 223 and 308 specifically?

[YOT 3,743]

Imported firearms either have to stay as imported (sporterized) or if modified have to have a minimum number of US made parts to be compliant with 922r. Read the stickies and you will find links to sites that have 922r worksheets.

 

You can look that up as well as I can.

[Sdustin 578]

Your in new York so you could never convert to a configuration that would require you to follow 922r. SO that's not something you will ever have to concern your self with. I would move the trigger position and add a thumb hole stock and then fill the thumb hole with a piece of kydex or something. Then you could have a better trigger and you also would have the shorter weapon overall your after.

[pyzik 597]

Your in new York so you could never convert to a configuration that would require you to follow 922r. SO that's not something you will ever have to concern your self with. I would move the trigger position and add a thumb hole stock and then fill the thumb hole with a piece of kydex or something. Then you could have a better trigger and you also would have the shorter weapon overall your after.

I think this is the best advice mentioned, in your current situation.

 

The wooden thumb-hole stock would be easy to cut.

 

Something similar to this...

 

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

Your in new York so you could never convert to a configuration that would require you to follow 922r. SO that's not something you will ever have to concern your self with. I would move the trigger position and add a thumb hole stock and then fill the thumb hole with a piece of kydex or something. Then you could have a better trigger and you also would have the shorter weapon overall your after.

Isn't 922r federal so all states are covered?

Imported firearms either have to stay as imported (sporterized) or if modified have to have a minimum number of US made parts to be compliant with 922r. Read the stickies and you will find links to sites that have 922r worksheets.

 

You can look that up as well as I can.

Yup will do

Just trying to by[ass and cut down on the mountain of confusion that THEY caused

TY

 

Your in new York so you could never convert to a configuration that would require you to follow 922r. SO that's not something you will ever have to concern your self with. I would move the trigger position and add a thumb hole stock and then fill the thumb hole with a piece of kydex or something. Then you could have a better trigger and you also would have the shorter weapon overall your after.

I think this is the best advice mentioned, in your current situation.

 

The wooden thumb-hole stock would be easy to cut.

 

Something similar to this...

 

 

Assuming I can do this under 922 r, where would I find one of these?

Model?

Manufacture?

Site?

Etc?

 

If I change stock, dos 022r affect me?

A woman, nice, at Saiga.com said I have to change 5 pieces if I change the stock. Not sure she is right, but that concerns me.

Thanks

[pyzik 597]

Isn't 922r federal so all states are covered?

 

Assuming I can do this under 922 r, where would I find one of these?

Manufacture?

Site?

Etc?

 

If I change stock, dos 022r affect me?

A woman, nice, at Saiga.com said I have to change 5 pieces if I change the stock. Not sure she is right, but that concerns me.

Thanks

 

You are not affected by 922r because your state and or city laws are more strict. So, you'd have to break state and local laws before you'd even break 922r.

 

The stock I posted was just an example. It's not even an AK stock.

You'd have to get this WASR stock (or similar) (for sale for $30 http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144705)

 

Solar Tactical (Don't know if I am supposted to post this link or not... http://shop.solartactical.com/SOLAR-TACTICAL-KYDEX-GRIP-WRAP-FEATURELESS-BUILDS_c19.htm) can make you kydex wrap.

Edited June 6, 2013 by Pyzik

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

If anyone lives in New York, or the surrounding area, and knows how to shorten my factory stock polymer plastic sports stocks, or, can come up with another solution, and wants to undertake the project, I will come to you, and of course pay you for your trouble and time. If so, please PM me.

Also seeking somebody who has knowledge on how to fix the quirky trigger pull on the 308 Saiga rifle and is willing to it also.

Both wants of course have to be done within the guideline of New York State law, and 922r.

Thank you

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

If anyone lives in New York, or the surrounding area, and knows how to shorten my factory stock polymer plastic sports stocks, or, can come up with another solution, and wants to undertake the project, I will come to you, and of course pay you for your trouble and time. If so, please PM me.

 

If need be, of course I can ship the stocks to you.

 

Also seeking somebody who has knowledge on how to fix the quirky trigger pull on the 308 Saiga rifle and is willing to it also.

 

Both wants of course have to be done within the guideline of New York State law, and 922r.

 

Thank you

[Sdustin 578]

Dude just watch about 20 hours of YouTube and see some of the idiot monkeys that are able to convert. Then buy a thumb hole stock go to knifekits.com buy some kydex and chicago screws. Take two pieces of kydex and pop it if the old toaster oven you bought at a yard sell till it is like a wet noodle, ware gloves. Lay the hot kydex in the thumbhole stock and then repeat the other side then drill holes for your chicago screws and your done. You want a great trigger in the .308 buy a red star arms and make sure your safety is working.

 

Also 922r to need to follow that law your gun must be in a banned configuration, if you attach this stock and not a pistol grip and stock as two pieces (which would be illegal anyway in your stupid ass fucked up commie state) you will not be affected by 922r.

[thebobrusso 27]

buy this http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-84/TAPCO-SAIGA-T6-INTRAFUSE/Detail

 

remove the pistol grip (one screw)

 

pin the stock done

 

[Sdustin 578]

And have no grip? That wouldn't feel good at all.

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

And have no grip? That wouldn't feel good at all.

This is the problem I keep running into even if I pull of the labor

it cannot be this difficult

Dude just watch about 20 hours of YouTube and see some of the idiot monkeys that are able to convert. Then buy a thumb hole stock go to knifekits.com buy some kydex and chicago screws. Take two pieces of kydex and pop it if the old toaster oven you bought at a yard sell till it is like a wet noodle, ware gloves. Lay the hot kydex in the thumbhole stock and then repeat the other side then drill holes for your chicago screws and your done. You want a great trigger in the .308 buy a red star arms and make sure your safety is working.

 

Also 922r to need to follow that law your gun must be in a banned configuration, if you attach this stock and not a pistol grip and stock as two pieces (which would be illegal anyway in your stupid ass fucked up commie state) you will not be affected by 922r.

if I get a red star arms trigger, would I have to move the trigger forward in a converted position wherein the pistol grip then goes where my trigger currently is?

I definitely do not know how to move the trigger forward.

And NY law bans pistols grips.

[Sdustin 578]

Yes you would. And it's not hard idiots do it all the time then they are sold by century arms.

 

Just move the trigger and put the modified thumbh hole stock on it. Why is this so hard to understand.

[thebobrusso 27]

check your pm's ashotinthedark1

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

To sum, what has been transpiring in my threads in this forum, for those who may wish to kinky help, please, I have a Saiga 223, and a Saiga 308, both unconverted and totally stock/unchanged from factory. I want to shorten the stocks on both, and fix the peculiar trigger configuration on the 308. I live in NY which makes this tough; allowed only one military aspect. And tougher, I am not handy at all, to put it mildly.

 

After a lot of investigation and going back and forth with a lot of gracious gentleman on this forum, I have come to the conclusion that the best way to do this on both rifles is as follows:

 

This company below offers a kydex pistol grips of which this company claims is probably legal in New York; they cannot give a definite answer, and I don't blame them, for legal reasons which are obvious. All they will say is that they believe it is probably legal. I need to make sure that these types of pistol grips are legal, and I'm not sure how to do that. Perhaps beyond opinions, you good people can directly onto how to find out exactly whether or not these pistol grips are legal as under no circumstances do I wish to break any laws whatsoever. Please as well to give opinions as to whether or not you believe these modified pistol grips are legal.

 

Here is a link to the modified pistol grip:

http://shop.solartactical.com/AR15-A2-STYLE-KYDEX-SLIP-ON-GRIP-136.htm

 

The actual work that will be needed to be done to modify the receiver to move the trigger and accommodate the hopefully legal in New York State modified pistol grip is simply beyond my ability. I do not know a screwdriver from a wrench. I am going to have to find a gunsmith to do this particular pistol and grip work.

 

Which leads to the trigger. There is been a lot of feedback about the triggers, so please help me to clear this up. I believe I have to buy a new trigger for the 308, is that correct? If so what and where? I further assume that the 223 trigger that I have is fine, and can just be moved forward, is that correct?... If not, same questions above.

 

The same company has adjustable butt stocks, of which from the guidance of you good guys, and watching YouTube, I understand can be pinned. This seems relatively simple, and, I actually think I can pull this off. So this part is covered. However, I just want to ask opinions: are pinned stocks definitely legal in New York State? When I watch the videos on YouTube, they speak about pants, but I'm not sure exactly what pains they are talking about-again I'm ignorant about mechanical things. Exactly what pins in my getting? Interestingly, a guy from the company I mentioned above said that I could use bailing wire, and just fired off, after drilling a hole, or two; I like that better. Do you guys agree? If so are we talking about just regular old bailing wire, and literally just twisting it into a kind of not and that's all one needs to do? It would seem to me that since it can be undone, relatively quickly, would that not be legal?

 

I am putting everything into this one post. I know it has been brought up before, I just want to make sure: if I do all the above changes, which am leaning heavily towards doing, will I still be in 922r compliance? I will give input on to that by saying since these are US-made materials I would believe so.

 

Since I am in New York State, and shall remain so for the foreseeable future, I'm going to have to do the above, which I want to, but keep it within the parameters of the law.

 

Thank you for helping me to finally put this all together and get it done.

[YOT 3,743]

Perhaps beyond opinions, you good people can directly onto how to find out exactly whether or not these pistol grips are legal as under no circumstances do I wish to break any laws whatsoever. Please as well to give opinions as to whether or not you believe these modified pistol grips are legal.

 

 

Opinions about laws mean nothing. You are fully capable of reading the laws, or consult a lawyer. Asking about laws on a gun forum will certainly bring misleading information..... from one NYer to another.

 

Truly, you need to do your own homework...... from an LEO that's having enough troubles worrying about my own stuff.

 

I do not believe adding a piece of plastic onto your pistolgrip with screws constitutes "permanently altered". I could be mistaken.

[AShotInTheDark1 2]

 

Perhaps beyond opinions, you good people can directly onto how to find out exactly whether or not these pistol grips are legal as under no circumstances do I wish to break any laws whatsoever. Please as well to give opinions as to whether or not you believe these modified pistol grips are legal.

 

 

Opinions about laws mean nothing. You are fully capable of reading the laws, or consult a lawyer. Asking about laws on a gun forum will certainly bring misleading information..... from one NYer to another.

 

Truly, you need to do your own homework...... from an LEO that's having enough troubles worrying about my own stuff.

 

I do not believe adding a piece of plastic onto your pistolgrip with screws constitutes "permanently altered". I could be mistaken.

 

I actually am a lawyer. Though I practice entertainment law and haven't touched related laws in a long time, such as gun rights and such.

Finding definitive answers is not easy.

I tend to agree with your analysis and think it all; to be wise words.

Thank you

[jerry52 893]

Rule #1Look harder ! its your butt.

Rule #2 it always your butt Look harder

Rule #3 Look back to Rule #1 and #2