Silencers and fully auto guns

[Taive 0]

I'm from Mississippi and I'm wanting to go about getting my license to get a fully auto gun and silencers any one know the rules?

How much does it cost?

Is it a one time payment or do you renew it?

Is it very hard to get?

[FORKLIFT352 63]

I don't know the laws in Mississippi ....first of all you need to find out if you're able to own select fire weapon's as well as suppressors in your state. In Oregon its no problem...seek out a class 3 dealer and they will hold your hand.... But first... Go to subguns.com....pick out the machine gun of your dreams...remember "dealer samples" don't count..... Then start saving... For your retirement.... First! LOL!

[Remek 771]

Good for you! Visit a class 3 dealer and talk to them.

 

Before you go, make sure you can afford a 10k+ gun, 200 dollar stamp, and a few hundred more for the dealer and for paperwork

[gunfun 3,931]

Look here in the "NFA section" and you don't need a licence. What you really want is a good trust designed for the purpose, and a tax stamp. The cans are feasible, but transferable automatics are very big money.

[termite 463]

You might first want to look into someone who is willing to purchase as many body parts as you can spare. FA is not cheap to "play" with, you can burn thru $500-$1000.00 in ammo in one session. But DAMN it's fun. My wife put the brakes on me emptying the ammo stash and sneaking off to the LGS to play with just about anything I wanted to. Only rule was, I had to bring enough for him to shoot also.

[Sdustin 578]

Like has been said it's very costly. You could get a Mac 10-11 for about 3-4k that's going to be the cheapest way to get out with a legal burp gun.

 

Also there's no license, I tell every one that it's like this, full autos silencer short barrel rifles and short shotguns are weapons with a title ion them, like a car, and like a car you must transfer the title to your name(transfer fee) so that the ATF knows who owns the weapon, so you apply and pay the tax and then once they say your cool you get to take the weapon home.

 

And remek the class three dealers I know don't charge anything to fill out paper work if your buying their weapon, I thought that it was a given you must fill out paperwork if you sell class 3 and to charge extra for it is pretty messed up.

[Remek 771]

I have to admit, Monty, my knowledge is limited on this subject. I wanted to go get a select fire weapon, but when I found they were 10K+ I realized it would be a poor use of my cash. My assumption with the Class 3 dealers was that the dealer did not have the gun, and it had to be transferred to you.

 

As a followup to this, do Class 3 dealers carry their own stocks of used machine guns?

[Sdustin 578]

My dealer carries a few auto weapons. Some do some just sell silencer and order autos, my dealer would charge 75 for a transfer of a class three weapon.

 

My dealer told me for 3k he could get me a Mac 11 with a .22 upper that way you could actually afford to shoot it.

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

The suppressor is a better idea than the select fire.

At least it has an immediate practical use of saving your hearing.

 

Getting the stamp and making your own has far ranging benefits later should you ever have to duplicate the effort.

[storm6490 2,768]

get a can, autos just waste ammo! there will be a few costs to you to get the can, find a dealer and select your can. once you have that selected you can either fill out the form and bring it to your current law enforcement official who is most often the head dick skinner at the county level. he will sign off or not on your form and then it will be sent to the dealer who will have you pay more money for the stamp and will send in the paperwork. after about 6 months to 777 years, you will get permission from the queen to have a nice new can. put the orininals in your safe and carry a copy of your tax stamp in your case, on your person and maybe even have a backup in the truck. You can make notarized and certified copies. I would never have the originals out in the field.

 

The other alternative that was mentioned before was a NFA gun trust that can be set up by a third party debt collector or yourself. There are specifics that a bottom feeder will have experience with that you may not know about. Things change from state to state but you can do it yourself, it may not be as flexilble as the one a ambulance chaser can produce for you.

 

The trust eliminates the need for CLEO permission and keeps you more private. You can also list people on the trust that can use the device unlike the other route. It can also specify who gets the device when you eat it.

 

Good luck!

 

p.s. its class 2 nfa, not class 3

Edited May 29, 2013 by Stryker0946

[Sdustin 578]

I would agree that a silencer is more useful but it would be really hard to sell a used can, a machine-gun on the other hand are easy as pie to make money on. Just wait a year or two.

[storm6490 2,768]

I've never heard of people buying used cans. I consider them a disposable item. The serviceable ones can be refreshed but I still would not buy a used one unless It came from an owner I personally know and shoot with.

[Remek 771]

Sort of a thread diversion. Anyone ever use that oil-can fitting for their silencer? Does it work for larger calibers than .22?

[Eric Pate 478]

I bought my M11/9 for $3200 + tax in 2008. I doubt you're gonna find one that cheap again. They're currently commanding $4000-$4500. The .22 upper costs $500. This is the cheapest route into the full-auto game.

 

Nothing wrong with used cans as long as the owner didn't trash it. May need a refurbishing or more likely just have the crud flushed out as it accumulates quickly and renders the cans less effective. For great bargain value cans with excellent lifetime warranty service I recommend Bowers. http://www.subguns.org/products/cans/

[gunfun 3,931]

I would walk away from any shop that wants to charge you to fill out paperwork for a couple reasons:

 

1) Don't give money to douches. They probably paid $20 for a generic trust form, and are re-selling copies of it to you for the same price even though they aren't the authors.

2) they are probably giving you bad legal advice.

- There was a shop that got shut down in central WA last year that was selling trust forms and giving advice on how to fill them. ATF raided a couple people who had NFA items registered to invalid trusts from that shop. The shop also got charged with unlicensed practice of law. I didn't see how it all ended, but IIRC, a couple people gave up their NFA items they had owned for a few years in exchange for making the threat of criminal charges go away. The shop is out of business.

3) people who are cutting corners with something like this and feeding you a hard sell, are probably cutting corners elsewhere too. They will eventually rip you off on something or go out of business. How many gun shops have you seen come and go that made big promises they couldn't back up and went out of business after a couple years leaving a bunch of unhappy people with warranty problems.

 

You may not choose to buy from him, but read some of the propoganda from guntrustlawyer.com about how to spot a bad trust. Hint, if the trust is talking about real estate or says "quicken" at the top, it probably isn't designed to protect your family members from an automatic property transfer that could make them felons.

 

Yay, I saved $200-500 in legal fees. Boo, I lost my stuff and am always looking over my shoulder hoping ATF never looks closely at my papers. , or get a lawyer who specializes to set up a good gun trust for you. It will pretty much be a one time fee*, and you can add stuff to the trust on your own later.

* unless there is some change in law or circumstances that warrants having a lawyer update things or fix mistakes.

Sort of a thread diversion. Anyone ever use that oil-can fitting for their silencer? Does it work for larger calibers than .22?

 

He sells a registered one , and I think people used it for some other pistol calibers. Don't risk a felony to save $225. For one thing, felons don't get to have any guns.

[Eric Pate 478]

FYI most dealers I am aware of do charge to perform transfers, whether its a Title One or Title Two firearm. Mine does$15 for standard BG check, $50 for cans and SBR/SBS transfers, and $100 for MGs. (Yes I thought $100 was a bit much for a transfer but if you're playing the FA game you get used to money flying out the door.) I will point out that as long as the seller is in your state of residence, it is possible for individuals to do the paperwork themselves without ever involving a dealer, thus avoiding their fees. If this is your first transfer I recommend finding a reputable dealer to help hold your hand and explain everything, it can get overwhelming pretty quick.

 

 

Edited to clarify: I am referring to the fees to perform a transfer, not the fees to create a trust.

Edited May 29, 2013 by DistalRadius

[storm6490 2,768]

I would walk away from any shop that wants to charge you to fill out paperwork for a couple reasons:

 

1) Don't give money to douches. They probably paid $20 for a generic trust form, and are re-selling copies of it to you for the same price even though they aren't the authors.

2) they are probably giving you bad legal advice.

- There was a shop that got shut down in central WA last year that was selling trust forms and giving advice on how to fill them. ATF raided a couple people who had NFA items registered to invalid trusts from that shop. The shop also got charged with unlicensed practice of law. I didn't see how it all ended, but IIRC, a couple people gave up their NFA items they had owned for a few years in exchange for making the threat of criminal charges go away. The shop is out of business.

3) people who are cutting corners with something like this and feeding you a hard sell, are probably cutting corners elsewhere too. They will eventually rip you off on something or go out of business. How many gun shops have you seen come and go that made big promises they couldn't back up and went out of business after a couple years leaving a bunch of unhappy people with warranty problems.

 

You may not choose to buy from him, but read some of the propoganda from guntrustlawyer.com about how to spot a bad trust. Hint, if the trust is talking about real estate or says "quicken" at the top, it probably isn't designed to protect your family members from an automatic property transfer that could make them felons.

 

Yay, I saved $200-500 in legal fees. Boo, I lost my stuff and am always looking over my shoulder hoping ATF never looks closely at my papers. , or get a lawyer who specializes to set up a good gun trust for you. It will pretty much be a one time fee*, and you can add stuff to the trust on your own later.

* unless there is some change in law or circumstances that warrants having a lawyer update things or fix mistakes.

 

Sort of a thread diversion. Anyone ever use that oil-can fitting for their silencer? Does it work for larger calibers than .22?

 

He sells a registered one , and I think people used it for some other pistol calibers. Don't risk a felony to save $225. For one thing, felons don't get to have any guns.

There are thousands of self made trusts out there and a few dozen in my county that work just fine. It does seem odd that a dealer would suggest filling out a form and charging for it. If they gave out the already free information without a fee, they would not be practicing law. I like to execute law.

 

What shop was this or state even? I haven't heard about it. But, I have heard a bunch of bunk stores invented by attorneys to scare people away from making their own decisions and paperwork. It's a trust, not rocket science. A local attorney does a nice package for 200 bucks that allows you to modify the officers and items at any time. It's more flexible than a solitary item in a locked trust but that may not be necessary to someone who just wants one can. This is most often the case.

[Sdustin 578]

I don't think the gun store charging for paper work are charging or trusts. But why go the trust route when you can just get it in your name. I guess if you live in an assholes district that won't sign papers ok. But the ATF is supposed to be doing away with the LEO sign off. I'll believe that when I see but that was designed before we had nation wide Back ground checks.

 

As far as selling a used can that's the point I was trying to make, no one buys used unless it's some older rare can. But you can just about only buy used machine-guns. And distalradius my local dealer currently has two macs one is .380 and one 9mm both for 3k. Your right though o line they are charging as much as 4-5k but if you find someone that has one they will give you a much better deal. And most all dealers that have been in the game a long time know people and know where to find whatever it is you want. It's easy to track down that FNC .223 full auto you sold to someone you knew 15 years ago. They may trade hands but most everyone knows each other and it makes it easy to track down whatever you want.

[Remek 771]

 

 

Sort of a thread diversion. Anyone ever use that oil-can fitting for their silencer? Does it work for larger calibers than .22?

He sells a registered one , and I think people used it for some other pistol calibers. Don't risk a felony to save $225. For one thing, felons don't get to have any guns.

I didn't know there were unregistered ones. The vids I saw were registered fittings from some company.

 

The OP might want to consider the slide fire route. Much cheaper, very effective, no tax stamp or trust/etc.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Remek

[gunfun 3,931]

The shop that got its clients in trouble was somewhere near or in Wenatchee. If they were giving legal advice bundled in with a service or form they are selling, they are practicing law. If they are telling you what the best kind of trust is, the legal results of certain actions, or what to put in the form, they are advising you. Legal advice can occur without payment for that advice. This is why court clerks will try to steer you toward forms, but they won't help you fill them out or tell you what form to choose.

 

There are good self executed trusts. It takes work and knowledge to look through a form trust, and make sure it is good for recent legal changes, your state's law and your individual situation. I recently got to look over a guy's trust that had been approved, and it left him exposed to a lot of risk. A trust can be valid and legal, but do a terrible job of protecting you, or not leave your heirs with much control or direction... If I were a consumer in the market for something like this, I would absolutely go on silencer talk and read through some of the forms there. I'd draw up a trust myself as a draft, and go to an attorney with that. That would help keep the cost of representation down, since you wouldn't be paying the lawyer to dig up stuff you already did. It would also give you an idea if your lawyer is actually knowledgeable about gun trusts as opposed to generic property trusts. It could also help you to know what you want to ask for and what you don't.

 

 

CGW sells an oil filter adapter intended as a solvent trap. They realized that it would work as a silencer if you shot through it, so they also sell the same part with minor changes and a serial # ,etc registered as a suppressor rather than just a cheap cleaning tool. The cost was about $25 different, so with the stamp that is $225 more than the solvent trap to have a legal suppressor.

[Remek 771]

Hmm... makes me start thinking!

[Sdustin 578]

One thing to keep in mind is when you go to a lawer to gets trust they just use a trust generator similar to quicken. You will be just fine to use that but I wouldnt do it as in my county the local police is happy to sign your forms. And amazon sells the oil filter adapter if your so inclined. I've heard one on a .223 and they do work.

[Remek 771]

I am going to look into it, but not until July. Paying the piper this year with boat maintenance and mods

[Sdustin 578]

Your going to look at getting a crapy oil filter silencer?

 

I wouldn't do it if your going to use it, the oil filter is considered a silencer part and once you shoot it out (about two magazines on .223) you have to take it to a class 2 SOT to "make" a new oil filter since when you put a new filter on it you are according to the ATF making a silencer part.

 

If your looking to spend the time and trouble to fill out and wait for forms get a good can that will last and you can clean.

 

Silencer talk is an awesome forum and the other place I hang out other than here.

 

If you want a .22 can get a silencerco sparrow it's about the best .22 all around can.

 

If you want a rifle can for .223 or .30 cal go ahead and get a .30 can since the new .30 cans are better than the purpose built .223 cans of 10 years ago. Get an AAC 7.62sdn6. If you don't want to spen a grand get a YHM phantom IMO the QD mount of the YHM is better than AAC and IMO the best QD mount in the industry.

[RedChallenger 149]

I have the AAC-SDN-6 and like it. Spec war is another good suppressor. Silencer Shop is a great company to deal with. Just remember they suppress, not silence, non sub sonic.

Edited May 29, 2013 by RedChallenger

[MT Predator 2,294]

I suggest the suppressor as well. You can actually use a can designated for a larger caliber on a smaller caliber. Not optimum sound suppression but they will help and you can use it on multiple weapons. I've seen people use a .45 can on .40 and 9mm. A .223/5.56 NATO can works on a .22lr as well. If you are dead set on full auto ammo wasting, why not a Norrel trigger pack in a 10-22? Not cheap but the .22lr is way more cheaper to shoot than a larger sub gun or rifle caliber.

[Eric Pate 478]

Monty,

3k is a great price for any transferrable MG, I'd jump on that if I had the cash. You could always flip it for profit. The 9mm is considered more desirable than the .380 due to the number of aftermarket accessories and uppers.

 

BTW, I have YHMs QD mount in 9mm and I agree its probably the best QD mount made.

The Silencerco Sparrow is what I want to get next, would be a great addition to the M11/22!

[DLT 1,646]

Just call ATF and ask them whatever is on your mind.

[Sdustin 578]

I'm not really in the market for a machine-gun but if I was I'd try for a either the mac11 or maybe a ruger AC556 if I was since they are about the cheapest way to get a rifle in full auto.

 

And like I've said my dealer is pretty awesome all around. They charge 75 fir a class three transfer, that half as much as the next cheapest class three dealer in the area.

 

I really like the phantom QD system it is the best if you ask me. Better than the aac system, and I love aac, I even interviewed for a job at AAC once, low pay up assemble silencers for a living if you even wondered.

[SHOTGUN MESIAH 855]

just get yourself a bump-fire stock and save yourself thousands and thousands of dollars, and your privacy.

around here a class 3 means local LEO's and Feds can come into your home unannounced and without a warrant

anytime they want. Is that worth having a class 3......FUCK NO!

Edited May 30, 2013 by SHOTGUN MESIAH