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welding bullet guide


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Hey all,

 

I am one of the unfortunates who had the tap break when i was threading the hole for the bullet guide.

 

I am thinking about welding the BG in place, and was wondering if anyone else here has welded their BG in place.

 

If you have, how did you do it? what kind of weld did you use (tig, mig, etc...) and how did it turn out for you? was there lots of splatter that you had to watch out for, was there a lot of cleanup involved?

 

Pics would also be greatly appreciated :)

 

Thanks again all,

 

Red.

 

 

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Is the tap still in the trunnion? If it is, you might be able to break it out with a center punch, then grind the end of the rest of the tap and try again. That's what I did.

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If you weld useTIG, ER70s be certain to clean all the paint from the area, and flush it with acetone, or you'll be fighting pin holes forever. You won't be able to see what your doing if you try MIG, there will be splatter with mig, and the mig wire is likely to push the BG out of place before it ties in

Edited by poolingmyignorance
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thanks for the input guys :)

 

A couple of things i didnt mention:

 

NailBomb, I cant weld :( I will be getting one of my friends to help me with it. My soft, capitalist hands are not very good with this kind of thing...

 

Joe, Yeah, a small portion of the tap is still in the trunion. I tried smacking it out, but its in there forever. I managed to make if flush to the trunion, but that's about it... I could always try and drill it out with a hardcore drill bit and try again, but that's a plan B for me at the moment. I still think welding it would be best...

 

Pooling, thanks for the welding info! I'm pretty sure my buddy has a mig welder, and to combat the splatter, we were thinking of building up a dam with welding putty or playdoh to limit the splatter and make sure it doesnt go anywhere important.

Would it be a good idea to perhaps JB weld the BG in place (I have a flat trunion) to make sure it doesn't move, then weld the edges?

 

thanks again for all the info guys, i really appreciate it :)

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Not really a job I would recommend your average welder take on to begin with, let alone with a MIG. Its the wrong process for work like this. Especially trying to do a rosette weld in that area I wonder if you'll have issues without opening up the bullet guide for a proper rosette weld.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

You would be better off taking the advice given and trying to go to the next size up.

 

In the event that doesn't work, your going to want to find someone to TIG(GTAW) weld the trunnion to repair the hole and start again.

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Not really a job I would recommend your average welder take on to begin with, let alone with a MIG. Its the wrong process for work like this. Especially trying to do a rosette weld in that area I wonder if you'll have issues without opening up the bullet guide for a proper rosette weld.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

You would be better off taking the advice given and trying to go to the next size up.

 

In the event that doesn't work, your going to want to find someone to TIG(GTAW) weld the trunnion to repair the hole and start again.

It takes some skill, and the right tig cup size to get in there and see what your doing. Plus unless your really good an electronic hood is going to be necessary to get your ark started in the right place.

Once perfected however it is superior to other processes. Much faster and stronger.

**Important**

If you weld, you'll still have to chisel enough of the broken tap out so that your weld can tie into the trunion and not the tap. The tap material is extremely brittle, as you know, and welding to it will make it even more so, and your weld will be likely to fail.

Edited by poolingmyignorance
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The taps are brittle. I broke one recently and thought I was screwed. I had nothing to lose, so I beat the crap out of it with the smallest nail punch I had. the tap shattered and the pieces fell out. I had another tap of the same size and was able to salvage the hole and get it threaded.

 

The moral of this story is that you should try every thing to get the broken tap out. In the worst case after trying this, you can still try the weld.

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awesome advice, thanks guys!

 

In talking to the guy that was going to help me weld, found out that he only welds to do sculptures and is quite a novice at it.

 

I will try smashing that bastard tap out of there. If things go well, it sounds like i might be able to salvage the hole. but if not i will just drill another and re-tap.

 

thanks again for all the input lads, its much apreciated :)

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Hey Jet,

Yeah, i tried that... When the tap broke, it was wedged into the hole with about 2 or 3 millimeters protruding from the trunion. I tried to reverse it, but it didnt work. eventually, i took a chisel and smacked it so that it was at least level with the trunion.

 

honestly, if they made saiga specific magazines for 5.45 i would just get those. I've even considered modifying magazines to have the integral bullet guide, just like saiga specific magazines.

I was also thinking about riveting the BG in place, but that seems even less likely without completely removing the receiver.

 

any rate, Thanks again all!

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Hey Jet,

Yeah, i tried that... When the tap broke, it was wedged into the hole with about 2 or 3 millimeters protruding from the trunion. I tried to reverse it, but it didnt work. eventually, i took a chisel and smacked it so that it was at least level with the trunion.

 

honestly, if they made saiga specific magazines for 5.45 i would just get those. I've even considered modifying magazines to have the integral bullet guide, just like saiga specific magazines.

I was also thinking about riveting the BG in place, but that seems even less likely without completely removing the receiver.

 

any rate, Thanks again all!

Most Tapco 5.45 mags work well with no bullet guide. Only problem I had was with using short hollow point Barnaul ammo.Last round didn't want to feed.

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NailBomb, you're right. I really just want to get this rifle to the point that I can trust it completely. We have come a looooong way together, my brown rifle and I, and this is the very last little piece that needs to be taken care of.

 

Jet, I have tried the normal tapcos using the 7n6, and i did have a hangup on the last round. Its interesting that the rest of the magazine fed properly, and the issue comes up on the last round...

 

for an experiment, i think ill try and modify one of the tapcos to have the integral BG... working with polymer is far easier than steel.

I will let you all know how that experiment goes...

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drill completely through tap/saiga trunion and put nut on other side of bolt

That might look a bit rough and be really hard to keep secure.

Though there is some merit to you idea. Drill through tapping is always easier because the shavings cannot compress in the bottom of the hole. Most people tend to break taps because they don't have the tactile feel of when the tap is "bottomed out" in a hole. Drilling through prevents this.

What size tap are you using, and what size drill, maybe you can simply go up one thread size up.

Also be aware that spiral flute taps while designed primarily with a powered driver in mind, do have a unique advantage of pushing shavings OUT of a hole. They are however a little tougher to turn manually, and require more lubrication.

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drill the hole in your guide bigger to allow more weld to get to the trunion. i did this on a vepr after i broke a tap, couldn't get the broken tap out no matter what i tried. this has been done over 2 years ago and have had no problems. it used to bug me cause most folks do screw jobs on their builds....but i don't even think about it anymore, it is there to stay. make sure you use the right equipment and it'll be fine. i used a mig....worked for me. i can post a pic if needed.

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adjc, yes please! I would like to see a pic of a welded guide.

 

thanks for that sir smile.png

just got in from work. i'll try to get you one later tomorrow afternoon been a long day. i took a few pics last night with my phone and they weren't clear enuff to see the weld. i'll break out the cannon sure shot....pic will be much clearer.

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Hey Semper,

 

yeah, i beat the snot out of that tap. I thought i was going to do irreparable damage to the rifle, so i stopped.

 

I am going to move forward with the magazine modification test as well. My plan is to sacrifice a tapco magazine and build up an integral BG just like the factory magazines have.

 

I tested it last night with an old handguard i had lying around. it is polymer, so i cut a small section out of it then used a soldering iron to kind of 'weld' the plastic back together. It was surprisingly strong! I did break it though, but i had to exert quite a bit of force.

 

the next step in this test is to drill some very small holes (1/16th diameter at the moment) into both pieces of polymer, then insert a short length of steel wire into those holes to act as a pin. I will glue the rods into place, then glue the plastic, then weld it. I think that this has a good chance of being strong enough...

 

I will of course update you all as to its progress :)

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red star...here's a few photo's. this will give you some sort of an idea of what a welded guide looks like. as said before this has been done over two yrs ago with many rounds thru it and still solid as day one. you can see that heat penetration went thru just fine. good luck with whatever method you take.

 

post-34288-0-95564700-1370554515_thumb.jpg

 

post-34288-0-72090000-1370554540_thumb.jpg

 

post-34288-0-15350700-1370554564_thumb.jpg

 

post-34288-0-12936000-1370554580_thumb.jpg

 

post-34288-0-93646400-1370554595_thumb.jpg

Edited by adjc
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here's a pic of the rifle with the welded guide......getting ready to see a Bonesteel folder soon. 032.gif

 

post-34288-0-17110600-1370555749_thumb.jpg


adjc, those are fantastic! thanks very much for taking the time to get those biggrin.png

 

i will show those pics to my buddy that welds and see what he says.

 

thanks again!

 

Red.

your welcome....no problem.

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