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travistp

bolt carrier damage....

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So umm. What do yall think I should do? Has anyone ever had this happen?? I have a few options but suggestions would be great!

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Bought it in Feb this year.. It would have to go back to arsenal.. Wonder if they would still repair/replace it even though I profiled the bottom of it???

 

Only thing I think is torch weld and grind it back down?

 

I know R&R has them for sale.. but 300$ is out of my range right now.

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I would contact whoever is in charge of the warranty work. They may send you a new one without having to send the gun in. Worth a shot. If not you can probably pick up a spare from Kvar or some one.

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Arsenal is responsible for warranty. But they said any modifications classifies it as a non warrantied item? Think a little profiling on the bottom would stop them from getting a new one?

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I ve seen some posts on here about repairing it how to do it ,think it was by pauly or cobra if was me talk to arsenal first ,second repair it .third upgrade it to r&r carrier . that sucks man

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Arsenal is responsible for warranty. But they said any modifications classifies it as a non warrantied item? Think a little profiling on the bottom would stop them from getting a new one?

Try to send it in for warranty.

Even though you profiled bottom you didn't touch that area.

 

Maybe a satisfied customer would be priority. And one time exemption.

 

Worth a shot worst they could do is return your old one.

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It's an easy fix. The whole reason this keeps on happening is the shitty cheap ass B.S. way Izhmash chooses to machine press those 'dimples' into the carriers to 'pinch down' on the gas piston / op rod, leaving the damn things subject to get all wobbly with as much as 1/8" of play threading and unthreading themselves into the carrier. They SHOULD be drilling and pinning straight through the entire carrier and piston like the old school AKs were built. Instead they are skimping like hell on that important part of MFG and look what happens... When I replace an existing piston / rod with a heavy duty one from Cadiz, it gets done CORRECTLY and there is no forward / backward play to place all the stress on the threads.

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Don't torch weld that.

 

Personally I would thread a piece of Copper or brass and weld the carrier with a TIG. true up the threads with a tap and pin it...

 

If you don't feel comfortable doing that might I suggest you find someone to do it for you?

 

I love a DIY ethic, but there are times where its best to let those who do best... do it for you.

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Ok. Someone (cobra) give me a good price and a FAST turn around and ill ship it out and someone can make a quick dollar..

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Ok. Someone (cobra) give me a good price and a FAST turn around and ill ship it out and someone can make a quick dollar..

PM him.

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Had the same thing happen with with mine 2 yrs ago. Give it to Cobra76 and let him do what he does. I should have. I ended up brazing mine back together which broke again a year later. From personal experience of doing a crap ton of research, talking to several people on this forum, and attempting a couple of different remedies I have made the following observations. Saiga 12 bolt carriers are inferior as they come out of the box. The Russians need to scrap the current design and start over. Once the carrier breaks, it will never be right again. The only real solution is to replace it outright with a better one. At the time mine broke in, 5/11, u were screwed since there were no replace bolt carriers. Recently, RandR targets has started producing replacement carriers with the op rod installed. Does not come with a bolt. I spoke the guy at RandR who said they are beefed up to address the cracking issue. Sounds good. Btw, they cost around $350. Am strongly considering however since haven't shot my S-12 in over a year.

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I contacted Annette at Arsenal INC. Told me to send email of pictures/serial#(obviously to make sure its under warranty) and personal info via e-mail. Said she was contact the Production Manager tomorrow to discuss what to do with it. I made sure to tell her that the bolt carrier was packaged awaiting a RMA# and ready to be shipped.. I do not want to send my gun in because they would probably tell me to piss off.. So I am going to see what options they offer and go from there...

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I contacted Annette at Arsenal INC. Told me to send email of pictures/serial#(obviously to make sure its under warranty) and personal info via e-mail. Said she was contact the Production Manager tomorrow to discuss what to do with it. I made sure to tell her that the bolt carrier was packaged awaiting a RMA# and ready to be shipped.. I do not want to send my gun in because they would probably tell me to piss off.. So I am going to see what options they offer and go from there...

 

Just curious, did you mention the polishing on the carrier? If not, I would suggest taking pics that show what you modified (even though it's not related to the area that broke), just so that you don't waste your time and shipping expense only to have them tell you it's not covered because it was modified.

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Travistp are you really in Houston asking this question.

 

Haha you nessaged me on FB to bring it in. Just trying to see if its covered. Some arsenal said they dont mess with em much and to contact FIME Group.. anyone familiar with the warranty process?Tac/Cliff. Ill probably bring it to yall as long as you can push me in front of the work load. Yall stay busy making quality guns...

 

 

I contacted Annette at Arsenal INC. Told me to send email of pictures/serial#(obviously to make sure its under warranty) and personal info via e-mail. Said she was contact the Production Manager tomorrow to discuss what to do with it. I made sure to tell her that the bolt carrier was packaged awaiting a RMA# and ready to be shipped.. I do not want to send my gun in because they would probably tell me to piss off.. So I am going to see what options they offer and go from there...

 

Just curious, did you mention the polishing on the carrier? If not, I would suggest taking pics that show what you modified (even though it's not related to the area that broke), just so that you don't waste your time and shipping expense only to have them tell you it's not covered because it was modified.

Lol ya ill mention it once they ok the fix if not then some locals might get thr job instead.

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Did you notice this while you were shooting or later when you got home? What type of rounds were you shooting? How many rounds has this gun had put through it? How many ports do you have, what size? What setting were you using when this happened? Sorry for your luck, I hope you get her up and running again soon.

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Wichester, federal vlue pack birdshot 1-1/8oz. Setting 5 and 6. No damage to trunion and minimal wear to the back of the bolt carrier.

4 ports .073 .. maybe 800 rounds through. . MAYBE... noticed it when I went to clean it and polish more on the rails of the carrier.. got bored wanted to shine it up more. Noticed on my puck where the op rod was hitting and it was towards the top left consistantly. .. I know it wont always smack the middle but it was pretty repetitious.

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Don't torch weld that.

 

Personally I would thread a piece of Copper or brass and weld the carrier with a TIG. true up the threads with a tap and pin it...

 

If you don't feel comfortable doing that might I suggest you find someone to do it for you?

 

I love a DIY ethic, but there are times where its best to let those who do best... do it for you.

 

There's no reason why that couldn't be welded with an oxy/acetylene torch and come out just as well as one done with TIG. It's just that the people with the necessary torch skill (not to mention a decent quality torch like a Smith or a Meco) to do it right and not fuck it up are few and far between.

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Is there preventative measures that can be taken to avoid the possibility of this?

I suppose you could have the piston pinned before any damage is done, maybe change the OP rod out to the heavy duty while at it.

 

Honestly though I have 3 Saiga-12s and have never experienced this issue. It could be a bad batch that came through the plant, or a off year on the alloy.

 

 

 

Regarding the Gas welding, I've looked into it more, and yes you can gas weld chrome alloys, but the problem with this is generally on aircraft welding, bike frames and such, where it is traditional to do so, filler being used does not have a equal chrome content. The process relies on the filler metal to draw some chrome from the base metal to normalize Base and Filler material into a near equal strength.

 

This being said while great in many applications, you are taking a step closer to a mild steel or carbon steel by drawing out chrome from the parent material.

 

Tig welding has the benefit of carrying over additional chrome in the filler metal, and more localized heat.

 

Due to the lower temps used in gas welding and the wider spread of the heat Gas welding would not require heat treating following the weld, where TIG often calls for it.(though I believe on something so small you might be able to get away with wrapping it in a fire blanket to hold the heat in and slow the cooling process)

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable Gas welding it, If you do, Its your gun. Post up results and a follow up after a few hundred rounds.

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So umm. What do yall think I should do? Has anyone ever had this happen?? I have a few options but suggestions would be great!

I have the same gun and jus checked mine and got alot of wobble on the piston where it goes into the bolt carrier so I cld mine doing the same thing eventually

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Badly designed bolt carrier, imo. This is the second new carrier with a hd rod that I had fail. Going to take a new R and R carrier out to try tomorrow.

 

And for those who are interested, the gun is a 2007 Tromix and I don't think it is overgassed. Almost all I shoot through it is birdshot at the skeet range.

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Edited by alistar

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Badly designed bolt carrier, imo. This is the second new carrier with a hd rod that I had fail. Going to take a new R and R carrier out to try tomorrow.

 

And for those who are interested, the gun is a 2007 Tromix and I don't think it is overgassed. Almost all I shoot through it is birdshot at the skeet range.

Do you know how the HD rod was fastened? Who did it?

 

Sorry about your trouble! I HOPE to prevent that on mine...

Edited by Nephilim7

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Don't know the exact process, but it was Tom at Cadiz with a new bolt carrier and his HD rod. Less than 1200 rounds though it and you see the result. My original carrier failed at about 7500 rounds and we tig welded in an HD rod, which failed within 250 rounds. I am not sure that the rod matters so much when the design of the carrier has so little metal around the threads of the rod. The steel might not be perfect also, but these were two Izhmash carriers presumably years apart in manufacture. Alas, but thank you for your sympathy.

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