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Hey Guys:

 

A friend of mine who is a less serious shooter than us was fortunate to afford, and get, a Springfield M-1A (M-14) rifle recently. He got the basic all black one - not some National Match version. He's now asking me what sort of scope to put on it. Well ... I know enough to tell him he'll need to learn reloading if he gets really serious about accuracy.

 

I told him to put a mil-dot scope on it, and get a bi-pod, but found myself not knowing which brand of scope to recommend to him. There are so many brands out there. We are not Night Force or Zeiss types - those are way too expensive for us. However, I'd feel bad telling him to put a BSA on a Springfield. I suppose a Leupold, Redfield, or Weaver will work. I guess my question is what is a quality mil-dot scope that can handle .308 recoil without breaking your finances?

 

Out of curiosity, for those of us on a tighter budget like me thanks to obama care implementation, are the BSA mil-dot scopes any good? I'm curious because I "confess" I have a regular cross-haired 3-12 x 50mm BSA scope on my Rem 700 .30-06 and it has been fine for 100 -200 yd. shooting. Just fine.

 

I know what a mil-dot scope is and how to use one, but I suddenly realized I don't know squat about how to pick one. I just don't want to steer my friend wrong. He's not a serious shooter compared to most folks on this forum, but I've helped him realize he has a rifle with 1,000 yd. potential. So he needs to get a good scope for it. His late father was an Army M-14 competition shooter (off hand). So his purchase was sentimental more than anything else, but I think he wants to learn long-range shooting too eventually. He's been around guns his whole life, but is new to the .308 M-1A/M-14 world. I want to help him tap into his inner sniper.

 

Thanks guys!

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Nikon makes some quality scopes for a good price.

The optics are generally very bright and feedback is very positive.

Individual models of course must be evaluated.

 

The mil-dot requirement is going to disqualify a bunch of good scopes for very little gain. BDC models would be more useful if longer ranged shooting was an issue.

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Center point at Walmart is a fair scope that will get you by until you figure out just how you are going to shoot. I think $80 and they are in every store and if you do not like it take it back. But you will like it for now and you will be shooting.

How far are you going to shoot?

Edited by jerry52
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Here is the thing, if cost is an issue does your friend realize how many hundreds (thousands) of rounds of 308 he is going to expend to get to a point where a mil-dot at long range is useful? Even reloading isnt cheap any longer.

 

The M1A will not just eat anything unlike a Saiga, with the demise of mil-surp supplies a buck a round isnt unrealistic.

 

Compared to that the scope is chicken feed.

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Here is the thing, if cost is an issue does your friend realize how many hundreds (thousands) of rounds of 308 he is going to expend to get to a point where a mil-dot at long range is useful? Even reloading isnt cheap any longer.

 

The M1A will not just eat anything unlike a Saiga, with the demise of mil-surp supplies a buck a round isnt unrealistic.

 

Compared to that the scope is chicken feed.

But if you do not have the $ and want to shoot what do you do? You would think anything right now would help wasting ammo.

I feel sorry for people just getting into shooting it takes money away from the milk you buy for the family

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Unfortunately... Leapers and center point are further down the rungs than the BSA IMHO... I would rate Barska a little higher than the BSA... ( and I own over a dozen Barska optics on everything from 17HMR to 50 BMG... yes... I have a barksa on a 50!! ) I would recommend a barska over any of the other " bargain" scopes out there. The one on my 50 was over $300.00 it was NOT one of their $75-90 dollar optics. I have many of those, and they work VERY well on what they are mounted on!!!

 

Millet also makes a DECENT optic for a fair price... you can get a BIG scope for under 3 bills... and by big, I mean a 30 or 35 MM tube, 6-25X56 side focus, mildot. I have a 30 mm like that on my Savage model 12 VLP , 204 Ruger. WOW! bright, crisp, clear, and hold zero perfectly...

 

Now... With all THAT said... it wouldnt hurt to look into the redfield brand... it is leupold quality at a better price. ( they are made by leupold) Heres the rub... I dont think you will find much more than a 3-9, AND... I am not sure if they even have a mildot reticle... These are in the $150 - 300 range...

 

Nikon ( as mentioned ) is a good brand... I have 4 or 5 of ther optics as well. although NONE of mine have a mildot reticle. $150-400 depending on how big you want, and what features...

 

Another nice optic is the Oculus brand... I have two of those... SUPER FINE mildot crosshairs... nice optic. 3 bills range.

 

VORTEX is another EXCELLENT optic in the 3 bills range as well... lots of choices in this brand... :up:

 

 

:smoke:

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Hmm tough one Jer.

 

Hows his eyesight? One the great things about the M1A is the irons, possibly the best around good as a Garand easily.

 

Can vouch for the Nikons have one on a 308 I shoot the hell out of, I was frankly surprised how good they are.

$200 or so puts you in a good range .

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Unfortunately... Leapers and center point are further down the rungs than the BSA IMHO... I would rate Barska a little higher than the BSA... ( and I own over a dozen Barska optics on everything from 17HMR to 50 BMG... yes... I have a barksa on a 50!! ) I would recommend a barska over any of the other " bargain" scopes out there. The one on my 50 was over $300.00 it was NOT one of their $75-90 dollar optics. I have many of those, and they work VERY well on what they are mounted on!!!

 

Millet also makes a DECENT optic for a fair price... you can get a BIG scope for under 3 bills... and by big, I mean a 30 or 35 MM tube, 6-25X56 side focus, mildot. I have a 30 mm like that on my Savage model 12 VLP , 204 Ruger. WOW! bright, crisp, clear, and hold zero perfectly...

 

Now... With all THAT said... it wouldnt hurt to look into the redfield brand... it is leupold quality at a better price. ( they are made by leupold) Heres the rub... I dont think you will find much more than a 3-9, AND... I am not sure if they even have a mildot reticle... These are in the $150 - 300 range...

 

Nikon ( as mentioned ) is a good brand... I have 4 or 5 of ther optics as well. although NONE of mine have a mildot reticle. $150-400 depending on how big you want, and what features...

 

Another nice optic is the Oculus brand... I have two of those... SUPER FINE mildot crosshairs... nice optic. 3 bills range.

 

VORTEX is another EXCELLENT optic in the 3 bills range as well... lots of choices in this brand... 032.gif

 

 

000.gif

 

This ^^^

 

Quality of optics, resolution and light transmission, is always the first consideration in any price range.

Just ask the folks at NASA who made the Hubble. horror.gif

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Hmm tough one Jer.

 

Hows his eyesight? One the great things about the M1A is the irons, possibly the best around good as a Garand easily.

 

Can vouch for the Nikons have one on a 308 I shoot the hell out of, I was frankly surprised how good they are.

$200 or so puts you in a good range .

Nikons have come a long way, it all depends on what he is going to use it for . If its a 100 yards just use the sights, problem solved.

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I have found shooting with irons requires one to develop good marksmanship skill sets over a scope.

To get really good with irons requires skills like natural point of aim, sling usage, proper stance, etc becoming second nature.

The M1A is one of those perfect platforms for learning these in a high power rifle. 300m is not unrealistic with good eyesight.

 

Of course all that transfers very well when you do use a scope.

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I'd go Nikon Prostaff. Hard to beat the quality to price. If you are doing mostly range shooting, in the middle of the day, you can save money skipping 50mm versions, or 30mm tubes. Especially if you are sticking in the 4-12x range or lower powers.

 

If you are shooting in the 100-200 range, a 9x max scope will do you fine. If you are going farther out, go with at least a 12x.

 

For half decent scopes, the more stuff you add on, the more the price goes up, so if you see one that's very cheap with all the bells and whistles, I'd recommend staying away.

Edited by sean8642
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I have a Weaver 3-15x50 tactical on my M1A build that I have been working on for a few years. With a 30mm tube and a 50mm front objective, it makes this scope fairly large and heavy on an already heavy gun. I would go with a lighter lower profile scope and probably go with a BDC reticle instead of a mil-dot at this point. I would lean toward a Nikon or Vortex of which I have both and they are great scopes. Both af these companies offer what I would call "the right size scope for this application" at fairly reasonable prices in light of the other considerations you need to have in mind when scoping an M1A, which leads to the following:

 

Your friend will need to focus just as much attention to a mount and rings, which took me over a year to research, decide and be able to afford what to buy- the springfield mounts suck in my opinion as well as most others who own/shoot M1As. He will find that he will spend as much or more on rings and a mount as the scope- and you can have the best scope in the world, if its not mounted solidly to the gun you are pissing in the wind. I went with a Sadlak mount, they are solid and the customer service is excellent, the people there have helped me every step of the way. Between the Sadlak mount and the ARMS throwlevers rings, I have about $500 in just the mount, so thats something that has to be kept in mind when scoping up an M1A. Smith enterprises also makes a good mount. ARMS makes one, but they say it may not fit some of the non-milspec receivers so you might want to watch out for that. GG&G used to make one, but I could never find one back when I was looking a few years back.

 

And a side note on reloading for M1As- don't do it unless you are an experienced reloader. If you reload and don't get the primers FULLY seated into the primer pocket, you run a huge risk of slam fires when you chamber a round or shoot. Every time the bolt closes on a round out of the mag, the firing pin contacts the primer. If you have a primer not fully seated, the firing pin might do more than contact the primer, it may detonate it.

 

And finally, tell your friend to get on the M1A forums, they are out there just like this one for Saigas- I have learned a lot about my favorite shotgun from this site and a lot about my favorite rifle from that site.

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I use a Dillon press, the XL650 for handgun. I can pump out between 800 and 1000 rnds per hour on that thing after I get going. I haven't gotten into reloading for my rifles as I don't have that many opportunities to shoot my rifles at distance which is what I'm interested in. I am awaiting a call for membership to a local gun range, once that happens I will be reloading for rifle on a Dillon non-progressive press. I have been using federal large pistol primers for years with no problem. I haven't done much reloading for rifle but what I have done I have used federal rifle primers as well, most of which has been done on a friends Lee press. I honestly haven't done any reloads for my M1A solely due to the fact that I haven't been in a position to shoot it enough to invest the money in another press.

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I apologize- I haven't had much experience with rifle reloading, I just know some of the hang-ups and problems you can encounter with the M1A. It can be a little picky when it comes to bullet weight/barrel combinations and load type. I have recently learned that you SHOULD NOT shoot these high pressure hot loaded rounds (like the Hornady superformance) through the M1A. The increased pressure can really screw with your operating system, especially the op rod. I have heard that it can totally blow the op rod out which would not be a good time. These guns were designed to shoot mil-spec NATO rounds. I have been told and seen myself through experimentation that a standard 147-150 gr bullet with a standard powder load shoots and groups at distance the best. I have tried heavier bullets from the 65,68 and 75 gr bullets and they don't really shoot too well through this gun. I have been told it is because of the twist rate in the barrel and the pressures involved with the heavier bullet and how the bullet is seated in the casing. The heavier bullet is naturally longer (can't be wider right?) and must be seated in a way that it sticks out a little further. I have been told that the chamber in these rifles are set up to shoot mil-spec NATO rounds and are not suitable for correctly chambering these "longer" rounds. Now, if you spend another few hundred dollars on a Kreiger or Criterion match barrel you might be able to shoot those other loads, but I haven't been able to do this because the barrel I want is $500 and I can't really justify doing that right now- this is just what I have been told. I have actually been told if I really want to be able to shoot any .308 round through my rifle take my M1A in and trade it in for an AR-10, but why do that when I could just have both.

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