cgp 12 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Got this recently that came with a bunch of other stuff. I understand that this is the factory Saiga 12 Magwell assembly. Are the parts shown pretty much all I need to install on my non-Magwell type Saiga 12? What else would I need to get the LRBHO feature like the VEPR 12? Lastly, what's this worth? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magicmonger 1 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Got this recently that came with a bunch of other stuff. I understand that this is the factory Saiga 12 Magwell assembly. Are the parts shown pretty much all I need to install on my non-Magwell type Saiga 12? What else would I need to get the LRBHO feature like the VEPR 12? Lastly, what's this worth? A lot of peeps don't put magwells on their Saiga's unless it comes with it. It takes away your ability to use a drum if u wish. I have a Legion IZ-433 and wish it didn't have a magwell UGH! I would recommend the LRBHO feature. Those you can get from Mississippi Auto Arms or Carolina Shooters Supply. Have fun with it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeluvsk 58 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 You have all the parts needed for the magwell, I'd say it's worth about $100 As for drums its a preference thing.. have a saiga pretty much dedicated to the MD20. but in my experience the factory magwell has advantages too the 8rd factory stick mags lock up fast and tight great for competition shooting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgp 12 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 You have all the parts needed for the magwell, I'd say it's worth about $100 As for drums its a preference thing.. have a saiga pretty much dedicated to the MD20. but in my experience the factory magwell has advantages too the 8rd factory stick mags lock up fast and tight great for competition shooting. Thanks Jeluvsk! Any idea on the LRBHO parts? I have a couple of the Izhmash 8-round magwell type mags. I'd probably want to get the bolt hold functioning as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeluvsk 58 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Finding factory lrbho parts is going to be tuff.. then installing it will probably be a challenge as well. Even the magwell kit you have might require you to modify your saiga just a hair. If I had to give any advice I'd say install the magwell first see what your working with and if needed slowly remove little by little opening up just were the mags fit on the inner part of the 1mm receiver only. Edited July 23, 2013 by Jeluvsk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I would recommend the LRBHO feature. Those you can get from Mississippi Auto Arms or Carolina Shooters Supply. To clarify some misinformation. You cannot purchase the LRBHO from either company. If you are wanting the factory LRBHO, get in line as it hasn't been available to the US market for sometime. Rusmilitary carried it only once and even then it's a project and a half to get it installed. I am assuming what Magicmonger is referring to is the BHO which is a different cat in itself. You will need to modify your receiver to install the magwell properly. Yes, this requires taking material away. There is a template floating around the forum, find it before you start as it has all the correct measurements. You will also need to modify for the front lug as well. Tools you will need are a dremel, some files, and a caliper. Again, don't start this project without the template in hand and get the thought of the LRBHO out of your head. The chances of this happening are slim to none. For whatever reason, if you back out of the project PM me and I'll purchase the parts. No I didn't post the above information to scare you away and take your parts. Just making you fully aware of what you are proposing. Edited: For spelling errors Edited July 23, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgp 12 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 I would recommend the LRBHO feature. Those you can get from Mississippi Auto Arms or Carolina Shooters Supply. To clarify some misinformation. You cannot purchase the LRBHO from either company. If you are wanting the factory LRBHO, get in line as it hasn't been available to the US market for sometime. Rusmilitary carried it only once and even then it's a project and a half to get it installed. I am assuming what Magicmonger is referring to is the BHO which is a different cat in itself. You will need to modify your receiver to install the magwell properly. Yes, this requires taking material away. There is a template floating around the forum, find it before you start as it has all the correct measurements. You will also need to modify for the front lug as well. Tools you will need are a dremel, some files, and a caliper. Again, don't start this project without the template in hand and get the thought of the LRBHO out of your head. The chances of this happening are slim to none. For whatever reason, if you back out of the project PM me and I'll purchase the parts. No I didn't post the above information to scare you away and take your parts. Just making you fully aware of what you are proposing. Edited: For spelling errors I appreciate your reply. My reference is the VEPR 12 which I do have. I am assuming the S12 has a similar design, if not identical. I am almost complete with the parts I need to make the -030, including the AK-100 stock assembly with pad, I am missing the LRBHO parts and the S12 front latch assembly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 You have most of the parts but are missing the trip lever and the block that holds the plunger Pictures courtesy of DrBormental: Also, to get that magwell in there requires a lot of cutting. Cobra 76 Two will tell you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) You have most of the parts but are missing the trip lever and the block that holds the plunger Pictures courtesy of DrBormental: azz_1.jpg azz_c.jpgazz.jpg Also, to get that magwell in there requires a lot of cutting. Cobra 76 Two will tell you The LRBHO kit that someday may become available from rusmilitary again includes the lever, plunger, spring, and nut. The block is unobtainable unless maybe you know of someone in Russia who can find it. Here's the question. Do you need the block to install just the magwell or will the existing block suffice? Just by comparing my two builds, one with and the other without a factory magwell, I can tell you the each block has different dimensions in the area where it is pinned to the magwell. The one for the magwell is wider. Has anyone here ever installed the factory magwell using their existing block? Also, this question goes out to cgp? Where did you get the extended magazine release, front lug, and pin? I have only seen them available for the Vepr-12. The Vepr's extended magazine release has different dimensions. I believe it is longer but don't quote me on it. I can possibly get a dimension off mine to help you out. PM me if necessary. Edited July 23, 2013 by HighPlainsDrifter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Cobra 76 did it. He says you have to notch the sides of that block http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/67204-russian-magwell-installation/ http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/28377-wtk-s-12-magwell-install-picks-drawing-and-specs/ He also says it is a big project and takes some tinkering to get it to work 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgp 12 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Also, this question goes out to cgp? Where did you get the extended magazine release, front lug, and pin? I have only seen them available for the Vepr-12. The Vepr's extended magazine release has different dimensions. I believe it is longer but don't quote me on it. I can possibly get a dimension off mine to help you out. PM me if necessary. It came with the box of parts that I got. I assumed that its an after market conversion kit and came with everything necessary to install it on a non-Magwell Saiga 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 I have a factory magwell on my personal gun. I don't recall modifying anything but the sheet metal on the bottom of the receiver. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 I'm still using the same magwell on my second personal gun and like it. Liked it better after getting another Izzy 8 rd mag for it so I could have at least two. The AGPs can be modded but are sketchy and prone to falling out. The links posted by pedal2alloy are what you need to check out good before installing. Nothing really difficult but ya can't be shy about getting in there making sparks fly and removing substantial material. The sheet metal of the receiver and also some of the bottom of ejector block on both sides to make room for the ears on the rear of the magwell. It's a great setup and I don't care about using drums all the time. I have other S-12s for that if I want but mainly use sticks. As far as the LRBHO I hate to even touch that can of worms but yes I do have my own design still working in both my magwell and non magwell shotguns, and soon to be in a rifle. The eventual production project was shoved away to a back burner for various good reasons years ago, but is not lost. I'm currently trying to get everything in place so I can actually pick that up again and roll with it. Drop in models for both styles and hopefully the rifles too. No mods necessary to the receiver or bolt, with only slight mods to the mags. And no it does not work with drums. However drums can be used, they just won't trip the auto BHO. I know some folks are rolling their eyes... whatever. It's still gonna happen but not until I'm ready to move forward with production. I believe mine to be superior to all others out there though and easiest for the average person to install. Worth the wait IMO even if it has been almost 8 yrs now. Like I said, I can not do it yet even if I wanted to start rolling them out tomorrow. I AM working on changing that as we speak though so please just be patient with me on that. When it gets there I will be posting it on every AK variant forum on the web so you won't miss it. The first post will be right here of course. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted July 23, 2013 Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Of all the LRBHO threads that have been made in the past year this one seems to be the most comprehensive and helpful. Thanks everybody... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cgp 12 Posted July 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2013 Thanks for the tips! I have 2 Izzy mags that needs the proper gun to go with! After seeing the parts for the LRBHO, I can see why it's difficult. I am leaning towards not doing that part but the Magwell looks very doable. I'm still using the same magwell on my second personal gun and like it. Liked it better after getting another Izzy 8 rd mag for it so I could have at least two. The AGPs can be modded but are sketchy and prone to falling out. The links posted by pedal2alloy are what you need to check out good before installing. Nothing really difficult but ya can't be shy about getting in there making sparks fly and removing substantial material. The sheet metal of the receiver and also some of the bottom of ejector block on both sides to make room for the ears on the rear of the magwell. It's a great setup and I don't care about using drums all the time. I have other S-12s for that if I want but mainly use sticks. Blackie LSCH.jpg As far as the LRBHO I hate to even touch that can of worms but yes I do have my own design still working in both my magwell and non magwell shotguns, and soon to be in a rifle. The eventual production project was shoved away to a back burner for various good reasons years ago, but is not lost. I'm currently trying to get everything in place so I can actually pick that up again and roll with it. Drop in models for both styles and hopefully the rifles too. No mods necessary to the receiver or bolt, with only slight mods to the mags. And no it does not work with drums. However drums can be used, they just won't trip the auto BHO. I know some folks are rolling their eyes... whatever. It's still gonna happen but not until I'm ready to move forward with production. I believe mine to be superior to all others out there though and easiest for the average person to install. Worth the wait IMO even if it has been almost 8 yrs now. Like I said, I can not do it yet even if I wanted to start rolling them out tomorrow. I AM working on changing that as we speak though so please just be patient with me on that. When it gets there I will be posting it on every AK variant forum on the web so you won't miss it. The first post will be right here of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
heartless-1 1 Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 JT Engineering is developing a magwell that can accept both stick and drum mags, OP maybe you should wait a little and see what happens. Cobra, thanks for bringing back that project. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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