Jump to content

vepr12 problem?


Recommended Posts

so im not sure if this is an actual problem or not as this (v12) is my first ak platform weapon of any kind. ive had nothing but issues feeding cheap rounds...FTE almost every single time. the gas piston threaded into the bolt carrier has a little play in it side to side where it actually threads into the bolt carrier. is this normal? i know the v12 has its self regulating gas system in which its basically supposed to be able to handle all types of rounds, and i also know that some weapons need a "break in period" to be properly evaluated...but, from the people ive talked to who are familiar with actual kalashnikovs, im told there isnt supposed to be any play in the gas piston itself...and thats the only explanation i can come up with for this FTE issue. the issue has been had with numerous #6 shot and also random target loads, all 2 3/4"...slugs and 00buck run flawlessly

Link to post
Share on other sites

How many FPS are the rounds you are running? 1200fps and up have had much more success than lighter loads and "low recoil" stuff. Are you using the factory magazine or aftermarket? Some SGM 10-12 rounders have had issues sticking because of some leftover material inside that needs to be smoothed out. Have you disassembled your weapon at all? If so ensure you replaced everything properly. It has happened that the gas puck was placed in backward when reassembled and this causes some funny issues.

 

Then the bad news. Some of these will not run light loads out of the box. They need some help with smoothing and polishing parts inside and such. Even then some just do not like light loads. For the most part all semi auto shotguns have their own quirks. With the array of ammo, loads, shot type, etc, making one that runs everything is near impossible. Like having a pistol that shoots .22, 9mm, .40, .45, and .357 magnum interchangeably. Would be a nightmare to develop.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea its all been disassembled, cleaned, an reassembled properly. Im hoping its just one of thise situations where it needs to be fired more. But the question remains: is the gas piston supposed to have a little side to side play in it? There are dimpled impressions in either side of the threads on the end of the bolt carrier where the gas piston screws in that prevent it from being tightened which leads me to believe its supposed to be that way but for there to be ANY wiggle in such a sophisticated gas system seems a little odd to me. Ill try to post some pics after work

Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome, thats good news! Guess ill just keep running hot loads through it (which is never something to complain about lol) in hopes that i can one day dump a full 10 round mag without a FTE OR it costing me $1 per trigger pull lol. Thanks guys

Link to post
Share on other sites

Somethingto try and may help. When you said ten round dump i assume you are refering to from a SGM magazine. There has been a lot of talk about these magazines having "burrs" in them fromthe mold causin issues (i had this problem personally).

 

Try this-

Unload the magazine.

Take your finger and slowly push the follower downward as deep as you possibly can.

See if the follower moves smoothly all the way down.

If it does not release the follower and let it return to its resting position.

Place a screwdriver or other object on the follower ans forcefully push the follower down and let it come back up very quickly. Do this quite a few times until the follower moves smoothly from top to bottom.

 

Easiest way to test the SGM mags is to try your factory five rounder with weaker loads and see if your gun shoots them using it. If it does the mags may be the issue. If not them some other fix may be necessary.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good tip menace! The follower is a bit rough in my sgm but unfortunately the fte problem happens with the factory 5 rounder also. But i WILL b racking the hell outta that sgm mag once i get home because the issue seems to be alot worse with the sgm

Link to post
Share on other sites

...the gas piston threaded into the bolt carrier has a little play in it side to side where it actually threads into the bolt carrier. is this normal? ...

 

Please post a video of this if you can. Play on the bolt carrier itself at the location you are speaking of is not normal. It should be solid as a rock, but we will need you to post a video or multiple pics showing the amount of play you are speaking of.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Im no gunsmith or engineer or nothing like that but just visually judging by the internals design i figure the tip of the gas piston inserts into the cavity inside the puck once a round is chambered...gotta be tough with 1cm worth of play in the actual piston

Link to post
Share on other sites

Your piston gets guided into position by the gas tube. Hence the fat portion of the piston. Mine has a small amount of play in it too, but not much. You could contact WPA for warranty work, but as long as its not being allowed to screw or unscrew, Id say its ok. Yours is moving much more than mine does though.

Edited by Captain Hero
Link to post
Share on other sites

Your piston rod play room looks fine, but I would call and verify with the importer (or pm papazorro or evlblkwpnz or tac47) and send him a link of your video as well.

 

When you say target ammo, it's too vague as there's a hundred different kinds of target ammo.

 

I've compiled the 12 gauge 2 2/3" shells for your reference:

 

http://www.doitdarith.com/temp/vepr12/wolfammo12gaugevepr12.html

Edited by DresNightfire
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Off topic Dres, bit i looked at the list you posted and had a proud "Team America, Fuck Yeah" moment. The list calls 1400fps rifled slughs high powered ammo, but i have some Hornady 9 pellet 00 that runs 1600fps. It kicks like a freaking mule on steroids, but certainly does what it is supposed to. That is American ingenuity at work.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

From the reports I have seen, Most V12s need something like 3 1/8 Dram eq or hotter to run. Some have guns that will run 3 dr Eq without work, but most end up just buying 3 1/4 dr stuff.

 

The fixes are about the same as the Saiga, but there is less need for friction work.

 

For practical terms, look for loads that are either at least 1 1/8 oz (32 gram) of shot moving 1200 FPS or faster (3 dr eq). Or alternatively, if the velocity is down, the weight has to go up. For reference, 1 oz loads (28 gram) it must be at least 1235 FPS.

 

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff176/_DMC/DEP12.jpg

 

You might have better luck with the 3 1/4 dram eq row of the chart.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to shoot the lower end of the range, try one of the CSS springs. I tried one yesterday, and again today, and I shot some old Winchester light target loads that are rated 2 3/4 drams with 1 1/8 oz loads.

 

My favorite light load is the Remington game load which is 3 1/4 drams and 1 oz load at 1290 fps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Off topic Dres, bit i looked at the list you posted and had a proud "Team America, Fuck Yeah" moment. The list calls 1400fps rifled slughs high powered ammo, but i have some Hornady 9 pellet 00 that runs 1600fps. It kicks like a freaking mule on steroids, but certainly does what it is supposed to. That is American ingenuity at work.

+1 for the Hornady buckshot. Their new loads are badass. The only slugs I run now are the Brenneke. Seems all others I tried fail in comparison.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is over-penetration what it is supposed to do?

 

I suppose that makes sense for hogs though.

The brenneke slugs I've used have been more accurate over the others. The SF short mags are prolly the best buy for power and other uses, but the max barrier penetration loads have more ass. They say not to use them for hunting as over penetration is likely. I wouldn't hesitate to use them should the need arise.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Is over-penetration what it is supposed to do?

 

I suppose that makes sense for hogs though.

The brenneke slugs I've used have been more accurate over the others. The SF short mags are prolly the best buy for power and other uses, but the max barrier penetration loads have more ass. They say not to use them for hunting as over penetration is likely. I wouldn't hesitate to use them should the need arise.

 

I was referring to the hornady 9 pellet OOB 1600 FPS load described in the quote. Considering that standard OOB over penetrates at 1325 FPS for HD purposes, and has a ratty pattern, 1600 FPS would seem a move in the wrong direction. Better to have more pellets and a little less penetration which is what you get with a normal 15 pellet magnum load. There would be a lot of kick with that when you consider the recoil of a 1 ounce slug at 1600 then add another 1/8 oz. Hornady is one of the few companies that is honest about pellet size too. their 00B really are 00 sized, and are generally harder, rounder and plated, as well as buffered.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Is over-penetration what it is supposed to do?

 

I suppose that makes sense for hogs though.

The brenneke slugs I've used have been more accurate over the others. The SF short mags are prolly the best buy for power and other uses, but the max barrier penetration loads have more ass. They say not to use them for hunting as over penetration is likely. I wouldn't hesitate to use them should the need arise.

 

I was referring to the hornady 9 pellet OOB 1600 FPS load described in the quote. Considering that standard OOB over penetrates at 1325 FPS for HD purposes, and has a ratty pattern, 1600 FPS would seem a move in the wrong direction. Better to have more pellets and a little less penetration which is what you get with a normal 15 pellet magnum load. There would be a lot of kick with that when you consider the recoil of a 1 ounce slug at 1600 then add another 1/8 oz. Hornady is one of the few companies that is honest about pellet size too. their 00B really are 00 sized, and are generally harder, rounder and plated, as well as buffered.

 

Oh. lol. I couldnt tell you on the overpenetraion aspect, as most of their buckshot is the same across the board. The CD, Superformance, and Zombie loads are all the same shit with different hulls. I never done any real testing with it for overpenetration in an HD scenario, but it may overpenetrate. Theres always a risk for it, but its hard to say how bad it would be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hornady claims to use different powders in their defensive loads to minimise muzzle flash, so that is probably different. The commercial load that I think makes most sense for HD is a #4 buck higher velocity load with the flight control wad that Federal sells as a coyote buster.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hornady claims to use different powders in their defensive loads to minimise muzzle flash, so that is probably different. The commercial load that I think makes most sense for HD is a #4 buck higher velocity load with the flight control wad that Federal sells as a coyote buster.

Yeah I forgot about that, But they also make a new 3" magnum load which I would like to try out for HD. Its loaded to 1300 fps, and is nickel plated of 1.5 oz of shot. Seems interesting.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here it is

IMHO, it is OK. Piston must have some movement in the bolt carrier, it is described in AK patent as an Mikhail Kalashnikov invention. The absence of small gap is a warranty issue. Of course the gap should not be very big - up to 3 mm up and 3 mm down, as far as I remember.
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Do as Gunfun suggested and get some 3 Dram or higher. Mine runs 2 3/4 Dram (Winchester AA). One thing no one has mentioned, as this is your first AK variant. You need to pull it into your shoulder when shooting the low power stuff. If you don't give a it good back stop, you can cause the FTE's.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea that was the first thing i thought also. I did quite a bit of research b4 buying this weapon and tht seemed to be a recurring theme amongst the ppl having "issues" with the gun so i made sure i wasnt limping it at all. I think my next plan of action will be to polish the bolt carrier rails and see if that garners any results....other than that imma just run the hell out of some heavy loads. Im quite sure its something simple

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...