Saiga 12s and clay pigeons

[Voltia 375]

So my manager decided it was time for an afternoon of fun. We got about half my group up at his farm for a few hours of beer

pizza, and shooting. Taught a Japanese fellow to shoot some pistols, along with a girl who hadn't shot before much, and

eventually got them both to blow up a chunk of Tannerite with some ARs.

 

Then out came the clay chucker and the shotguns. I ran my 870 and my Saiga, another guy ran his 870. The saiga of mine,

which is totally un-modded, hits clays rather well with just the open choke threat cover, and ran through a box or so of low

brass Federals on gas setting 2 using factory 5 round mags with no issues to be had. Considering the gun hasn't been

out of my safe in almost 2 years, it did well.

 

So, my starting point for y'all's deliberations is that I would like to, when I eventually convert it, hang wood furniture on it,

and make it have a longer sight radius, how can I do traditional looking AK style sights, but preserve the moderate affinity

it has for the clay birds?

 

My idea is to hang an upper wood handguard on it that has a flat rib, like a bird gun, along the top edge. The rear sight,

which won't be height adjustable, will be a low profile rear leaf sight with a wide gap in the middle. Then, out near the muzzle,

I hang a modified front sight that has a bead, rather than a post, with the bottom of the bead being co planar to the top of the rib.

This way, you can look through the rear leaf, along the rib, and see the bead where it would be if the rib kept on going.

 

Anyway, that's the idea, to have it look like an AK rifle until you sight down the barrel where it will sight like a bird gun.

[YOT 3,743]

I have Krebs on mine and dust clays with it all the time. They center naturally and are open enough to lead.

[gunfun 3,931]

Well- lately I have been posting like one of those guys who points to his own build as the answer, but I think what I have is exactly what you want:

http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/gallery/gallery/album_820/gallery_17871_820_30123.jpg

 

Iz108 OEM rail + dinzag high sight with AK74 wood.So you get a vent rib with a couple of horns on either side of it and a ring around the nose. It works like rifle sights or a vent rib simultaneusly and is not busy.

 

 

This link is the gun before the front sight http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/gallery/album/820-build-2-iz-108/

 

Here is the best pic I could take of the sight picture. http://forum.saiga-12.com/uploads/gallery/gallery/album_820/gallery_17871_820_1262731.jpg

 

Oh and a choke adapter.

Otherwise, I think the dinzag front sight with the peep sight from the krebs kit is the best iron sight set.

 

Dinzag's sight matches the AK looks, uses AK front sight post, and doesn't have an ugly bulky clamping mechanism. For these reasons I think it is a better choice than the other similar choices. He offers it in a high and low version.

I've seen the krebs peep sight sold without the font sight somewhere, but I can't remember where. Krebs won't sell it to you that way directly though.

[Voltia 375]

I like that. I think the sight picture is like what I want.

 

What do you think about sinking that rib into an upper handguard?

[jerry52 893]

Looking at the third Pic. I realized that I have no Idea where my sword is!

Edited August 3, 2013 by jerry52

[YOT 3,743]

This is the sight picture with the Krebs. (not bad for a cellphone pic)

 

 

[NM0 586]

I have Krebs on mine and dust clays with it all the time. They center naturally and are open enough to lead.

 

Only done clays a couple times with my S12. The Krebs do work very well. A buddy of mine did better with the Saiga than his 870.

[YOT 3,743]

 

I have Krebs on mine and dust clays with it all the time. They center naturally and are open enough to lead.

 

Only done clays a couple times with my S12. The Krebs do work very well. A buddy of mine did better with the Saiga than his 870.

 

 

I do, too. Usually 22-23 out of 25.

[Voltia 375]

Thanks for the shot, Oldetool.

 

The sight is thin enough. Maybe I could lower it enough to have the rib cover the bottom part of it.

[cgp 12]

I use mine for skeet regularly.

 

[gunfun 3,931]

I like that. I think the sight picture is like what I want.

 

What do you think about sinking that rib into an upper handguard?

 

Maybe if you epoxied the upper handguard full length to your gas tube and stuck a pin or two in somewhere to make it solid. It would take some monkeying around to get a non-hack version.

 

Some one else notched an upper handguard and put it underneath the IZ 108 rail, by unscrewing the front adjustment knob. IMO this would be easier. People used to be desperate to take off the 108 rails and replace them with something tacticool, so a bit of searching might find someone who will give or sell you theirs. Oleg or WPA might be another source.

 

A third way could be to pick up a vent rib from brownelss or numrich and cut it to the desired lenght. knock out your rear sight or grind it off and tap a couple screws into it.Then drill into the nubbin in front of your bead sight on the gas block and tap into that too. Then you would have two solid mounting points for your rib.

 

Obviously, using a simple swap kit will be much easier. In practical use with any of them, if you have your stock fitted to you well, anything inside the circle of the front sight is going to be dusted if it is close enough to have the right pattern density.

 

Playing simple trap style games, I think I generally do about the same as Tom. I was not so good the one time I took it to the skeet club, but I could tell it was doable. Those fast cross shot in the 3rd station take a lot of leading. I probably only got about 3/4 of my clays in the middle stations but it was a lot of fun. More practice is needed.

[YOT 3,743]

Thanks for the shot, Oldetool.

 

The sight is thin enough. Maybe I could lower it enough to have the rib cover the bottom part of it.

 

 

If you lower the sight pin it will change (raise) the point of impact or center of pattern.

[Voltia 375]

Depends on what you do with the rear sight at the same time. Globally lowered should make no difference.

 

Gunfun, I have a spare gas tube. I am going to have it converted to the AK style but use a different rear sight.

Attach a handguard like is done on AKs, but have the top end ribbed with a low profile rear sight.

[gunfun 3,931]

Is it an S12 tube? They aren't the same size as other AKs.

 

If it is, perhaps you could pick up a couple of surplus hand guard retainers cut them and tig them to the tube. The cut would be for the steel vent rib you also tig on.

[Voltia 375]

Yeah, that guy here a while back that was being all sketchy and evasive did send me the tube and gas block and plug.

 

Sounds like a good idea.

It is a S12 unit.

[gunfun 3,931]

Well, it sounds like work, but it has been a long time since I've seen anything very original here. (The last is probably Funked Out's build)

 

Since you are doing the work rather than me, I think you should do it. Bonus points if you insert a couple of tritium vials into your rail. I've been planning to do that as soon as the guy who sells them on candlepowerforums gets the right size and color back in stock.

 

If you have the block off to tig on it, you may as well get some steel pic rail and tig it to the bottom of the gas block and maybe at about 9 oclock too for a light or laser.

FYI cheap and simple option available if you don't want to mess with all of that. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/89638-wts-css-bolt-on-tactical-iron-sights-saiga-12/&do=findComment&comment=921024

 

Pros: simple, $30 discount, AR type hi vis front post (good to start with and easy to adjust or change for tritium). Cons: chunky corners and clamp as with krebs, not a fan of rear aperture.

[YOT 3,743]

K-Var has some sights without the chunky corners with leaf rear sight......

[misterT 174]

Tried trap shooting for the first time ever, using my S12 and did pitifully bad, 5 out of 25! They have some manual throwers there too I am going to go try some practice with them before I go to another shoot. I think I am going to try some of the "tracker" rounds a guy there had, to see if they help me get on target. I was hoping to at least hit half of them but it was difficult to get a bead on them before they hit the apex and started droping out of range. A choke would probably help too I am not sure what the spread looks like at that range.

[gunfun 3,931]

Practice getting your mount consisten so that the bore is naturally in line with your eye. Then throw something like a milk jug on the ground and roll it around a bit to get a feel for your spread as a warm up. The next time you shoot at a clay, count to one in your head after it feels like time to fire. It also helps to pre visualize where you will shoot the clay and line up your feet on that point, then twist your upper body back to the start.

[YOT 3,743]

Tried trap shooting for the first time ever, using my S12 and did pitifully bad, 5 out of 25! They have some manual throwers there too I am going to go try some practice with them before I go to another shoot. I think I am going to try some of the "tracker" rounds a guy there had, to see if they help me get on target. I was hoping to at least hit half of them but it was difficult to get a bead on them before they hit the apex and started droping out of range. A choke would probably help too I am not sure what the spread looks like at that range.

 

In order to find that out you actually have to "pattern" your shotgun. A 30" circle at varying yardages fro 20 to 40 yards. A roll of paper table clothe works great for that.

 

Practice getting your mount consisten so that the bore is naturally in line with your eye. Then throw something like a milk jug on the ground and roll it around a bit to get a feel for your spread as a warm up. The next time you shoot at a clay, count to one in your head after it feels like time to fire. It also helps to pre visualize where you will shoot the clay and line up your feet on that point, then twist your upper body back to the start.

 

It is wise to use the width of the barrel as a gauge for wing shooting. Lead with the barrel on the forward side of the target and you will soon learn how much to lead at varying yardages. It takes the counting out of the equation, making it a visual memory.

[gunfun 3,931]

Another point about the patterning: people tend to get stuck on the size of the circle. They should be looking for the size of the circle without gaps in it. Some guy made a clever tool for fast patterning. He held a clay at a slight angle and traced the oval-ish outline of it onto a piece of clear plastic from some packaging. He then cut out that piece of plastic and slides it around on the targets he shoots. Thus the effective circle is anywhere such that there is no where that piece of plastic fits without at least covering 3 pellet holes. (3 strikes is considered to be a minimum for reliable breakage.)

 

There are more scientific ways to do it, but this tells you what you need to know with less labor. I know that I am not really patient enough to keep from losing count before 270 pellets.

[misterT 174]

Thanks for the good advice, I am commited to using the shotguns I own for trap shooting as a form of practice. I do not expect to out shoot the serious guys with parker hale and perazzi over unders made for trap shooting. I am O.K. with that, I just want to see how good I can do with what I have for home defense